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Forums - Politics - Gina Carano - Disney fired her, what does that solve?

vivster said:
snyps said:

Personally, I don’t care which corrupt Federalist Party is in the White House. Why can’t people believe what the want to believe and say what they want to say? 

Because absolute freedom is a myth and actions have consequences. I mean the whole problem is that things never stop at just "believing". People with extremist views aren't berated for their beliefs, they are berated for what actions arise from that belief. For example dead cops in the Capitol or 500000 preventable deaths from a virus.

Your idealist libertarian views will not hold up in reality, believe me, I was once that stupid. The sooner you lose those views the better for yourself and everyone else.

I wish people would sack up and get used to hearing things they don’t like to hear. The added benefit is people will out themselves and then you know how people truly think. Silencing people is much worse and creates bigger problems. I get it, there are a lot of wackos right now on the far right. I’d rather hear what they have to say than pretend they don’t exist. 



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Hiku said:
Dante9 said:

Yeah, but this is how it begins. People are othered, canceled, fired and deplatformed for their political views. They can be effectively unpersoned with impunity. One side of the political game becomes dominant, silencing any dissent over the most trivial things. This was the point of Gina's last post, and her enemies proved they are doing the very thing she was warning against. Because that's what this is, just a witch hunt to take down anyone who thinks differently. Gina's last post was willfully misunderstood so as to finally have the excuse to silence her, everyone knows what her point really was. There's an iron triangle of democrats, mainstream media and the tech companies who run social media platforms and between all of those, it's becoming very difficult to voice anything that does not parrot their talking points perfectly. There's no middle ground, no debate, it's just two tribes. These leftist people are also taking over education, warping science to fit their agenda, rewriting history and advocating for book burnings. It's very ironic that the people who call their opponents nazis the most, are actually manifesting very nazi-like behavior themselves.

This might seem hyperbolic to you, but read up on what happened in Germany during the nazi rising, even ordinary people started to act just like this against the jews, only difference is they didn't have social media back then.

Be worried. Be very worried.

Why is it that in your OP, you mentioned everything except Disney's stated reason for severing ties with her?

Jews were targetted because of how they were born. You can't chose to not be a certain race. But you can chose your views on race and culture, etc.
That's why her comparison is not a proper analogy.

Like when conservatives compare mask mandates to jewis being forced to wear armbands.
As if they cant process that the former was implemented in order to harm people, and the latter to keep people healthy.
At least I don't recall Nazis being concerned about the health of the Jewish people. Maybe I missed that chapter in the history books.

What we should be worried about is if private companies are not allowed to sever ties with people they don't want to associate with.

Is that the solution you're looking for? That companies should be forced to have anyone, no matter how bad they are, associated with their brand?
If not, what? Complain about the companies in the same manner people complained about the employee/member?

But it's only cancel culture when the other side does it?

Bottom line is, people are allowed to complain about whatever they want.
And private companies are free to chose who they want to associate with/represent them, etc.
And this is Disney, who said no to hundreds of millions from McDonalds simply because they didn't want to be assiciated with childhood obesity.
So you can be sure they didn't like that holocaust analogy.

People dislike comments like that because they chose to think this way.
You don't chose to be a certain race, etc.

Although many Jews share a similar (white European) gene pool, they are not a race. Any person can convert to their religion and become a Jew. 



snyps said:

I wish people would sack up and get used to hearing things they don’t like to hear. The added benefit is people will out themselves and then you know how people truly think. Silencing people is much worse and creates bigger problems. I get it, there are a lot of wackos right now on the far right. I’d rather hear what they have to say than pretend they don’t exist. 

Pretending the far right doesn't exist is what the far right does to deny that there's a problem, like FOX and the GOP pretending systemic racism is no longer a thing or that white supremacists aren't far and away the largest terror threat facing the US today.

Platforming conspiracies and misinformation and allowing them to propagate is how people die like we've seen over the last year.

Last edited by TallSilhouette - on 14 February 2021

snyps said:
Hiku said:

Why is it that in your OP, you mentioned everything except Disney's stated reason for severing ties with her?

Jews were targetted because of how they were born. You can't chose to not be a certain race. But you can chose your views on race and culture, etc.
That's why her comparison is not a proper analogy.

Like when conservatives compare mask mandates to jewis being forced to wear armbands.
As if they cant process that the former was implemented in order to harm people, and the latter to keep people healthy.
At least I don't recall Nazis being concerned about the health of the Jewish people. Maybe I missed that chapter in the history books.

What we should be worried about is if private companies are not allowed to sever ties with people they don't want to associate with.

Is that the solution you're looking for? That companies should be forced to have anyone, no matter how bad they are, associated with their brand?
If not, what? Complain about the companies in the same manner people complained about the employee/member?

But it's only cancel culture when the other side does it?

Bottom line is, people are allowed to complain about whatever they want.
And private companies are free to chose who they want to associate with/represent them, etc.
And this is Disney, who said no to hundreds of millions from McDonalds simply because they didn't want to be assiciated with childhood obesity.
So you can be sure they didn't like that holocaust analogy.

People dislike comments like that because they chose to think this way.
You don't chose to be a certain race, etc.

Although many Jews share a similar (white European) gene pool, they are not a race. Any person can convert to their religion and become a Jew. 

First, use the multiquote feature please.

Second it's not that simple. Although one can convert into being Jewish (few people do since they don't seek converts), you can't really choose to not be Jewish. I'm an atheist, but my last name is easily recognizable as Jewish. I also have features that most savvy people can identify as Jewish (although not all the time, so sometimes people will talk about how much they dislike Jews right to my face without realizing, which is always hilarious). 

In the point Hiku was making, Hitler did not care if a Jew was practicing or an atheist. If a person had 1 or more Jewish grandparents, they were considered Jewish. So, the targeting was not based on any factor the person could choose (other groups were also targeted). As opposed to someone like Gina who is facing consequences for saying stupid shit that was entirely within her control. That's the difference.

Last edited by JWeinCom - on 14 February 2021

I just want to chime in, not about the topic specifically, but about a narrative I've seen repeated several times that implies conservatives are the only ones criticizing cancel culture and then only for hypocritical reasons.

That's not true.

I've been not-conservative and liberal-by-default pretty much my entire life. On those political orientation things, I usually get something like "center-left". The last few years, though, I've realized that I absolutely do not want to be associated with the "liberal" label. The viciousness, the unabashed hypocrisy, the hive mind mentality, the swarming need to destroy anyone that does not conform ...

Cancel culture gives me fucking chills.

Sci-fi dystopia, Harrison Bergeron type chills.  I don't want anything to do with it or the people who support it.  It's not the only reason I've jettisoned the democratic party but it's certainly one of the biggest.  



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Torillian said:
RolStoppable said:

Why do you call such people conservatives?

I assumed those particular viewpoints are mostly held by those who are socially conservative. There any reason to think differently? 

Radicals on all sides often share some viewpoints with much more moderate people. But conservative is usually reserved for people that uphold institutions and keep traditions. People storming the capitol aren't conservative, they are radical, even if they share some viewpoints with conservatives.

I wpould also argue that democrats are the party of conservatives. At least most democrats or the ones in power in the party are very conservative. They don't want for instance changes like a health care for everyone or a change in student debts and instead keep uupholding the current systems. The republican party on the other hand is at least in a significant part filled with radical right-wingers. They don't want to uphold traditions and conservative values, but instead try to exclude people from voting (by stricter voting laws to exclude poor people) - and the voting right for everyone is an established value therefore conservative, want to reverse decades old developments like Roe vs. Wade.



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Majora said:

This thread taught me that VGC is almost entirely far left. Interesting.

You must be american, because my impression is that americans are almost entirely far right wing.



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Jaicee said:

I believe in free speech not just in a legal sense, but also as a moral imperative, personally. Private companies that are richer and more powerful than some governments might legally have a right to engage in thinly-veiled viewpoint discrimination, but the question is 1) whether they should have that right, and 2) whether it's morally right, regardless. Many of our public colleges and universities in recent years have come to recognize viewpoint discrimination as a genuine form of cultural repression and enacted protections against it on-campus. I think viewpoint discrimination is a real thing and a serious inhibition to substantive freedom of speech that our larger society should address as well.

I think many people make it too easy for themself, if they say that basic rights are only enforceable against the government. These rights were coined in a time in which no global multi-billion companies existed, wealth was connected to single powerful persons that also represented the government. But these times have changed mostly. If people say, that a company never can do censorship, as only a government or a state can censor, I think that is misguided, as many companies have a lot of actual power (even if they don't have formal institutional power) and many act as a gatekeeper. With other rights as well. I think we should seriously consider, that our rights should also be enforceable against players as big companies.

That doesn't mean I agree with Carano, I didn't know her and what I read now about the stuff she sais, I think I despise most of her viewpoints. But I would be very wary to give big companies too much power, because they wield it against people "who deserve it" for now.



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sundin13 said:

shikamaru317 said:

Gina Carano was one of the most common ones I've seen over the course of 2020 and 2021 so far, but some others I've noticed the left trying to cancel just in the last year or so are Chris Pratt, JK Rowling, Tim Allen, Kirstie Alley, Scott Adams, Jon Voight, and Bruce Willis, and that is only a partial list.

I always find it funny when people complain that the left tried to "cancel" JK Rowling when the Religious Right has been trying to "cancel" her and her books for decades.

Yeah, well cancel culture is a power trip that enables everyone to feel like having actual power because they are part of a mob. So left and right are using it all for their own goals and actually one and the same person can become cancelled from both sides, as the reality is much more complicated than simply left and right.



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JWeinCom said:
sales2099 said:

I’m saying it’s not 50/50. Not even close.

And I'm asking you why that matters.

If 100 people think Harry Potter is a plot to convert children to Satanists and therefore JK Rowling should be cancelled, and 1,000,000 people think that JK Rowling has fucked up views on trans people and should therefore be cancelled, which group has the right to voice their opinion? If your answer is not "both" or "neither" then you have a very logically inconsistent position.

Wait, treating both groups the same is "logically inconsistent"? And are you really saying, that a small group has less rights than a bigger one? I think we should look at the content of the "opinions", not on the size of the supporter base. If millions support killing jews in germany their "opinion" doesn't had more right ot be voiced, than the ones of the dissenters.

It's not how many voice an opinion, but if the opinion in question is a vehicle for hatred, to decide if an opinion should be suppressed. Your statements are very worrying, the way you formulated it. Because this is the support of a fascist dictatorship. The word fascism is actually based on describing a big movement in italian. Remember also that there are a lot of Trump-supporters, are their stances more valid because they are many?



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