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Forums - Gaming Discussion - CD Projekt Red Apologizes For Hiding Base Console Performance- Offers Refunds

 

Will you be asking for a refund?

Yes 14 35.00%
 
No 26 65.00%
 
Total:40
DonFerrari on 17 December 2020
jardesonbarbosa said:

This whole situation is very unfortunate. They made an incredible game, but tarnished their reputation by delivering such shitty ports. When you put crunch on top of that, I feel sorry for the poor developer who had to pretty much sacrifice his life for that.

I hope this can be enough to show devs and publishers that PS4 and Xbox One need to go. It's sad, but it's time. They had amazing sales on PC, they didn't really need old consoles for this game to be a success. Yes, they would lose sales without consoles, but they could always try an impossible port down the line. Switch owners can handle late ports, I'm sure last gen-only owners can as well.

About half their sale was on last gen console, and there were incredible games on both even in 2020, so it isn't those console faults that CDPR lied and made a mess.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

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FromDK on 17 December 2020
Dulfite said:
FromDK said:

"We should have paid more attention to making it play better on Playstation 4 and Xbox One"
Does not in any way make sence..

What I think,, Google made some shady deal to get Stadia look better and will probably buy CD Projekt RED very soon.
https://www.androidcentral.com/stadia-might-be-best-way-play-cyberpunk-2077-right-now-most-gamers

That would be a industry shaking purchase right there if it meant horrible ports/no ports to anything outside of Stadia. It's one thing to buy a studio up and still deliver good ports on other systems, but that right there would get me to quit even non-gaming google products going forward. I've already switched to Edge and Bing (they clog up my memory a WHOLE lot less than flipping Chrome from the dark ages does).

If they buy CD (or any other) I think they will make all new games exclusive to stadia.. (and whatever other ways of playing Google games they come up with)



SvennoJ on 17 December 2020
jardesonbarbosa said:

This whole situation is very unfortunate. They made an incredible game, but tarnished their reputation by delivering such shitty ports. When you put crunch on top of that, I feel sorry for the poor developer who had to pretty much sacrifice his life for that.

I hope this can be enough to show devs and publishers that PS4 and Xbox One need to go. It's sad, but it's time. They had amazing sales on PC, they didn't really need old consoles for this game to be a success. Yes, they would lose sales without consoles, but they could always try an impossible port down the line. Switch owners can handle late ports, I'm sure last gen-only owners can as well.

They promised an incredible game / laid the groundwork for an incredible game. The PC version is far from complete nor stable either. Currently over 3,000 threads on Steam in technical discussions.

Don't shift the blame to consoles that just delivered RDR2, Spiderman, Death Stranding, Ghost of Tsushima. The consoles are fine, CDPR just isn't very good at using them. CDPR needed console sales to make TW3 into what they wanted. So far they still sold more to console base than to PC in unit numbers, in profit probably even more since console versions hold their value longer / fewer sales. Without consoles funding their games they would be working with one third of the budget.

They knew what the consoles are capable off, they knew what their engine was capable of on the consoles, yet they chose to upgrade / strain their engine beyond where it can still run on the consoles. Then withheld the truth until they cashed in on nearly 4 million pre-orders on those consoles. False advertisement is an understatement in this case.

The sad thing is, reviewers all fell for it hook line and sinker. We need to go back to reviewing games on how they are when delivered. First impressions count, not there's potential and it will likely be fixed / finished. If you don't want bad scores at launch, don't launch it broken / unfinished. It's as simple as that. There is always early access if you're desperate for money now.



Dulfite on 17 December 2020
SvennoJ said:
jardesonbarbosa said:

This whole situation is very unfortunate. They made an incredible game, but tarnished their reputation by delivering such shitty ports. When you put crunch on top of that, I feel sorry for the poor developer who had to pretty much sacrifice his life for that.

I hope this can be enough to show devs and publishers that PS4 and Xbox One need to go. It's sad, but it's time. They had amazing sales on PC, they didn't really need old consoles for this game to be a success. Yes, they would lose sales without consoles, but they could always try an impossible port down the line. Switch owners can handle late ports, I'm sure last gen-only owners can as well.

They promised an incredible game / laid the groundwork for an incredible game. The PC version is far from complete nor stable either. Currently over 3,000 threads on Steam in technical discussions.

Don't shift the blame to consoles that just delivered RDR2, Spiderman, Death Stranding, Ghost of Tsushima. The consoles are fine, CDPR just isn't very good at using them. CDPR needed console sales to make TW3 into what they wanted. So far they still sold more to console base than to PC in unit numbers, in profit probably even more since console versions hold their value longer / fewer sales. Without consoles funding their games they would be working with one third of the budget.

They knew what the consoles are capable off, they knew what their engine was capable of on the consoles, yet they chose to upgrade / strain their engine beyond where it can still run on the consoles. Then withheld the truth until they cashed in on nearly 4 million pre-orders on those consoles. False advertisement is an understatement in this case.

The sad thing is, reviewers all fell for it hook line and sinker. We need to go back to reviewing games on how they are when delivered. First impressions count, not there's potential and it will likely be fixed / finished. If you don't want bad scores at launch, don't launch it broken / unfinished. It's as simple as that. There is always early access if you're desperate for money now.

So should No Man's Sky be held to the same score it had at launch even though it was a hot mess and has come a LONG way with free updates since? Or Arkham Knight? Or if Anthem improves a lot? Their hard work doing things for free to improve it for the player doesn't get rewarded with an updated score or is that not what you're saying?



EricHiggin on 17 December 2020

Imagine paying to watch a hyped up movie that ends up being poorly put together, let's say hypothetically WW1984, releasing soon (or maybe The Matrix 4 would be more comparable to CP 2077 and it's hype). Then being told by WB/HBO, 'we're sorry it wasn't up to par at release, but you can keep watching the movie again and again for free, month after month, as we upgrade and add scenes until the movie will be fully finished and hopefully it'll meet expectations by then.' What if people with outdated 1080p tv's had extra visual/audio issues that 4k tv owners didn't on top of it earlier on?

How many people would:
Watch the release and constantly keep watching?
Watch the release and final edition years later?
Watch the release then never bother again?
Never watch it due to poor release?

CDPR isn't the first or only instance of this, but they're certainly not helping the situation with how they marketed and released CP 2077.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it, and if it ain't finished, don't sell it.

Last edited by EricHiggin - on 17 December 2020

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Chazore on 17 December 2020
SvennoJ said:

They promised an incredible game / laid the groundwork for an incredible game. The PC version is far from complete nor stable either. Currently over 3,000 threads on Steam in technical discussions.

Don't shift the blame to consoles that just delivered RDR2, Spiderman, Death Stranding, Ghost of Tsushima. The consoles are fine, CDPR just isn't very good at using them. CDPR needed console sales to make TW3 into what they wanted. So far they still sold more to console base than to PC in unit numbers, in profit probably even more since console versions hold their value longer / fewer sales. Without consoles funding their games they would be working with one third of the budget.

I wouldn't say consoles are their biggest market, not entirely: 

https://www.spieltimes.com/news/the-witcher-3-sold-more-copies-on-pc-than-all-console-platforms-combined-in-2019/

I'm just linking this, because I don't really want to go back to the old discussion that VGC has of console vs PC sales, where PC is seen as some small fry.

Having recently discovered that CDP went publicly traded halfway through 2077's dev cycle, I'd put mroe weight into investors dumping some cash into their side of business as well.



Step right up come on in, feel the buzz in your veins, I'm like an chemical electrical right into your brain and I'm the one who killed the Radio, soon you'll all see

So pay up motherfuckers you belong to "V"

SvennoJ on 17 December 2020
Dulfite said:
SvennoJ said:

They promised an incredible game / laid the groundwork for an incredible game. The PC version is far from complete nor stable either. Currently over 3,000 threads on Steam in technical discussions.

Don't shift the blame to consoles that just delivered RDR2, Spiderman, Death Stranding, Ghost of Tsushima. The consoles are fine, CDPR just isn't very good at using them. CDPR needed console sales to make TW3 into what they wanted. So far they still sold more to console base than to PC in unit numbers, in profit probably even more since console versions hold their value longer / fewer sales. Without consoles funding their games they would be working with one third of the budget.

They knew what the consoles are capable off, they knew what their engine was capable of on the consoles, yet they chose to upgrade / strain their engine beyond where it can still run on the consoles. Then withheld the truth until they cashed in on nearly 4 million pre-orders on those consoles. False advertisement is an understatement in this case.

The sad thing is, reviewers all fell for it hook line and sinker. We need to go back to reviewing games on how they are when delivered. First impressions count, not there's potential and it will likely be fixed / finished. If you don't want bad scores at launch, don't launch it broken / unfinished. It's as simple as that. There is always early access if you're desperate for money now.

So should No Man's Sky be held to the same score it had at launch even though it was a hot mess and has come a LONG way with free updates since? Or Arkham Knight? Or if Anthem improves a lot? Their hard work doing things for free to improve it for the player doesn't get rewarded with an updated score or is that not what you're saying?

Re reviews / updated reviews are more relevant nowadays than ever. DriveClub is stuck with its low score, NMS the same. It's a problem with Metacritic and reviewers. Video games are not static pieces of entertainment. It can go both ways. I would rate GT Sport at launch a 7/10, climbed up to 9/10, and fell down to 5/10 now (PD broke sport mode) Many games lose their multiplayer modes as well, or there are so few players left that the multiplayer is no longer worth it.

However the state Cyberpunk is in currently, did not deserve the 91 Metacritic score it started out with. It's misleading.



SvennoJ on 17 December 2020
Chazore said:

I wouldn't say consoles are their biggest market, not entirely: 

https://www.spieltimes.com/news/the-witcher-3-sold-more-copies-on-pc-than-all-console-platforms-combined-in-2019/

I'm just linking this, because I don't really want to go back to the old discussion that VGC has of console vs PC sales, where PC is seen as some small fry.

Having recently discovered that CDP went publicly traded halfway through 2077's dev cycle, I'd put mroe weight into investors dumping some cash into their side of business as well.

One year it outsold consoles by 3%, in numerical units. Overall, consoles are still ahead and I would wager that consoles still made CDPR more profit than PC sales. Anaway, just over or under half, cutting out half your revenue is never a smart idea.

Going public does explain the pressure to release. They should have been able to continue on the revenue generated by TW3.



Chazore on 17 December 2020
SvennoJ said:

One year it outsold consoles by 3%, in numerical units. Overall, consoles are still ahead and I would wager that consoles still made CDPR more profit than PC sales. Anaway, just over or under half, cutting out half your revenue is never a smart idea.

Going public does explain the pressure to release. They should have been able to continue on the revenue generated by TW3.

I dunno. People forget that CDPR have their own store, where they make 100% of the cut, compared to the 30% they lose from everyone else. The sales in total still tend to be favoring PC. I mean, this very forum was talking about W3 sales like a year ago, and back then PC was still pulling ahead. 

When broken down for total sales it goes:

"Leading the pack is the PC, which has sold 12.4 million copies. Next is the Playstation 4, which has sold 10.8 million. Third is Xbox One, which is responsible for 4.3 million. Combined with the Nintendo Switch, that results in The Witcher 3 selling 28.3 million copies so far"

That wasn't only in 2019 kind of sum up, that's for all of W3 in general, when number crunched to the latest date of recording, which means W3 did sell the most on PC by 12.4 million. At least a good portion of that will also be 100% profit made via GoG (Bought my copy on GoG as well).

I just don't think it's in the cards to suggest consoles>PC in terms of profits, because when we look at it that way, why bother with selling to PC gamers at all when consoles are just of a greater size/value?.

Also, if it helps, CDPR were recently bending the knee to China, in regards to censoring the game for the PC version in China, and we're seeing all sorts of companies bending the knee to China, because there's big money to be made there, well, in China, PC is their main meat & potatoes, and likely where a lot of the pre-orders came from, that CDPR was boasting about recently.

They should have been, but when you're PLC, you answer to shareholders. They should have stayed private like Valve, where they could work from their own pace, and not some git's checkbook.

Last edited by Chazore - on 17 December 2020

Step right up come on in, feel the buzz in your veins, I'm like an chemical electrical right into your brain and I'm the one who killed the Radio, soon you'll all see

So pay up motherfuckers you belong to "V"

SvennoJ on 17 December 2020
Chazore said:
SvennoJ said:

One year it outsold consoles by 3%, in numerical units. Overall, consoles are still ahead and I would wager that consoles still made CDPR more profit than PC sales. Anaway, just over or under half, cutting out half your revenue is never a smart idea.

Going public does explain the pressure to release. They should have been able to continue on the revenue generated by TW3.

I dunno. People forget that CDPR have their own store, where they make 100% of the cut, compared to the 30% they lose from everyone else. The sales in total still tend to be favoring PC. I mean, this very forum was talking about W3 sales like a year ago, and back then PC was still pulling ahead. 

When broken down for total sales it goes:

"Leading the pack is the PC, which has sold 12.4 million copies. Next is the Playstation 4, which has sold 10.8 million. Third is Xbox One, which is responsible for 4.3 million. Combined with the Nintendo Switch, that results in The Witcher 3 selling 28.3 million copies so far"

That wasn't only in 2019 kind of sum up, that's for all of W3 in general, when number crunched to the latest date of recording, which means W3 did sell the most on PC by 12.4 million. At least a good portion of that will also be 100% profit made via GoG (Bought my copy on GoG as well).

I just don't think it's in the cards to suggest consoles>PC in terms of profits, because when we look at it that way, why bother with selling to PC gamers at all when consoles are just of a greater size/value?.

Also, if it helps, CDPR were recently bending the knee to China, in regards to censoring the game for the PC version in China, and we're seeing all sorts of companies bending the knee to China, because there's big money to be made there, well, in China, PC is their main meat & potatoes, and likely where a lot of the pre-orders came from, that CDPR was boasting about recently.

They should have been, but when you're PLC, you answer to shareholders. They should have stayed private like Valve, where they could work from their own pace, and not some git's checkbook.

12.4 million vs 15.9 million.

Afaik the idea behind this line of thought was, why not drop consoles, most sales are on PC. They would be dropping 15.9 million sales, 56% of the numerical sales in W3 terms. And sure they take 100% of the cut on GoG, however W3 is $16 there currently (70% off), $44 on Steam, actually $12 on XBox, full price on PSN and Nintendo. Apart from sales (currently on sale on XBox) digital games are usually much more expensive on consoles.

Why bother with PC, same reason, 44% is still nearly half and as you said, better margins. The biggest difference is far fewer margin sucking physical editions on PC. You could ask, why bother releasing on Switch with only 800K sales (probably more now). 800K times $60 revenue generated.

It would be interesting to know how many copies were sold in China. No clue.

Anyway CDPR explained TW3 wouldn't have been possible (as it is) without console sales
https://www.cinemablend.com/games/Witcher-3-Wouldn-t-Exist-Consoles-72064.html

Oh this popped up as well, I assume these aren't counted, although who knows with CDPR nowadays...
https://www.theverge.com/2020/6/16/21293300/the-witcher-3-free-pc-ps4-xbox-steam-epic-cd-projekt-red