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Forums - Sony Discussion - The Last of Us Part II Wins Game of the Year!

Jaicee said:
Chrkeller said:

Why do people get so upset when somebody doesn't like Last 2 (or any other highly rated game)? I've never understand the passion to defend, given it is all personal opinion. Doesnt help there are a lot of "great" games i didn't care for; ocarina, gta (all of then), Witcher and bioshock jump to mind.

Why do so many people who don't even own the game, who have invested no money therein, have no dog in this fight, object so strenuously to its very existence?

It's all good with me if it's not your favorite game. Don't expect me never to defend it against criticisms that I feel are unmerited though.

No idea.  I bought, played and beat the game.  Same with Last 1, and Uncharted 1-4.  I've given my reasons why Last 2 is the worst ND to date (all gameplay related), and politics have nothing to do with it.  I'll be honest, I had to look up the whole "cancel culture" complaints, because after beating the game I had zero idea what people were so upset about.  Frankly I still don't get it.  I also don't get the Disney Star Wars hate either.  Best I can tell is people are too sensitive about culture (perhaps both sides).  

Oddly the best story in videogames (IMHO) goes to Ori for me.  Very emotional despite simplistic.  

I'll close with saying Last 2 was a 7/10 for me.  The original was 10/10.  I also thought Uncharted 4 was a step back compared to 2/3.  I do worry about ND, I don't think their writing is what it once was.  



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KratosLives said:

Joe is the biggest idiot on youtube. 

You are the perfect example of this debate. 



AngryJoe is the opposite of the professional reviewer. He started shitting on a game months before release after he read leaks.
He is the perfect example of how some bogus as hell information in the internet can impact our view about game. Some people just can't accept someone vision.

Also i've seen some of his playthrough and ye it was awfull to watch. Whatever happended he always was like "what is this shit?
" "This is bullshit" "Kill all of them you idiot"

People nowadays are too much influence by people with huge subscription base on yt/twitch.



Azzanation said:


Spoiler!

Jaicee i understand you like the game, that's perfectly fine, my sister loves the game too, but this entire issue is disliking others for not liking it. Some points of yours doesn't sit well. Angry Joe is a panel of men however that has nothing to do with the overall opinion of the game. Joe clearly stated that he doesn't care if Joel died, in fact he was expecting him to die, the issue is how he died in his eyes. To him it was character assassination to make room for a forced character. To him, he saw past the method of how they try to make you like Gabby etc. Its all in his review and it just didn't work for him. 

Joe gave the 1st game a 10/10 which for him is a rarity and slapped his Badass Seal of Approval on the game. He and the others loved the first game and you can watch his review or his live stream. So if what your saying is true about his persona, than Joe would have butchered the first game like he did with the second game, but this is not the case here. Again see how others label him because his not part of the industry circle? His quite a fan of the series. If you want to know why he gave TLOU2 a 6/10 he goes through the point system and explains why @31:38 in the video.

To Joe, an average game is a 5/10, anything above is considered above average etc. You don't have to agree which is fine, the industry and community needs to respect peoples opinions. You aren't getting called out for giving the game a 10/10 much like you shouldn't get called out if you gave a game a 4/10. Hence the debate. Angry Joe gives harsh reviews to my favorite games as well, however i respect it due to his reasoning's behind it. Do i agree on some of them? Not always, but its his opinion in the end, i don't need to call him names because of his opinions.

Who's Gabby?

See, this is it right here. You know so little about the game that you can't even name its main characters (her name is Abby), yet you've reached all these sweeping, invariably negative conclusions about it based solely on some carefully cherry-picked videos you saw on YouTube and felt the need to jump on this thread just to shit on it. Why? What's it to you?

Spoiler!

The notion that Joel is treated contemptuously by the game's developers just seems silly to me. You act like he was just shot two minutes into the game and then forgotten or something. His presence in Ellie's internal life is felt throughout the entire game and indeed determines its outcome. Joel is routinely humanized throughout in the form of memories that Ellie relives long after his passing, all the way through the game. Ellie's entire character arc is shaped by Joel's passing. In many ways, both Ellie and Abby exist in relationship to Joel and as representatives of different aspects of his personality.

I've definitely felt the weight of losing Joel throughout my playthroughs, although maybe I'm predisposed to being that I've lost my whole immediate family too and my dad was well let's just say no Joel. That's among the many sense in which I mentally-emotionally connect to Ellie's position a lot. It really, really hurt to lose Joel. Even after it's clear why he was killed, it still hurt a lot. I mean the way that scene concluded when Ellie entered the room...the scene at the grave site, visiting Joel's house, the compassion that Dina in particular shows to Ellie...Tommy's impulsive response, admittedly...maybe I'm an overly-emotional sap (I'll admit that I am cryer; I tear up easily), but that shit got to me. It really did. It has me bawling like a baby every time. I was emotionally aligned with Ellie's decision to pursue Abby and the others even though I really knew it was wrong. The humanization of Abby did provide a welcome new perspective on events to me and went a long ways toward bringing home the game's core points about not just revenge in a literal sense, but like finding yourself psychologically trapped, prevented from moving forward with your life, possessed in a sense by loved ones or other treasured things that you've lost.

Anyway, I didn't feel that Abby's characterization was wholly at the expense of Joel's. I mean she pretty much winds up in a Joel-like role herself vis-a-vis Lev in the end, ironically enough. Still, I always felt the most like Ellie throughout even if she's not really my favorite character because I see myself as a very flawed person prone to making the wrong decisions often and I just generally have probably more in common with Ellie than I do with any other video game character really in terms of lived experiences, including real struggles with just not liking myself or feeling like I have value so much as just being a burden to the world. Abby's morality shifts a little too much for me to connect to quite as much and the people who like her the best often seem like just generally judgmental people. Sometimes I feel like saying "You don't actually have to only care about Joel on the one hand or Abby on the Abby on the other, you know? There is this other, main character in the game too who nobody seems to remember or care much about." But then I think that I'm being selfish in a way by thinking that, just because I feel like Ellie a lot when I play this game. Well anyway, I've gone on too long and gotten off-topic a bit with musings that weren't called for. Sorry.

Look, I don't dislike you as a person or anything. I just think you're believing what you want to believe about a game you're clearly not familiar with and wonder why it is you're so determined to.



KratosLives said:
Spoiler!

Did you see him during the "sex scene"?, he clearly doesn't get it.

I'm gonna be honest here, I'm not sure that the rest of your post I'm quoting was actually helpful to the cause. I think you're too used to being in the world of internet toxicity and really should try just a little harder to shed that overly aggressive mentality if possible, if I can be so bold as to offer that personal advice. Life back in perspective: it's a game! Real people don't need to die over it. Not because they created the game, nor because they BSed about it to an audience. So anyway, beyond saying that I'm just gonna focus on the above part of your post that I agreed with because I think this provocative rhetoric about wanting to kill real people over a video game is very unhelpful.

So anyway, yeah, I too find the gripes one sometimes encounters about the very minimal, and frankly adorable, sexual content in this game pretty rich, considering the sources. I don't know about you, but I've sometimes seen people being all "why did they include needless sex stuff, it's so pointless and Hollywood" and then seen those very same people, in the next breath, announcing their plans to buy Cyberpunk 2077 precisely for its heavily-advertised needless sexual content. The minimal sexual content in TLOU2 obviously exists to service the development of its leading characters. It's not gratuitous or exploitative of them. I'm not sure you can always say that in the case of that other game. The real reason I think people object to seeing characters like Ellie and Dina and Abby less than fully clothed is because they don't look much like the women in that other game tend to. Many men I think find the idea that women of shapes that don't resemble those of fashion models or porn stars might have sex lives too or might be attractive to somebody repugnant on a level that merits complaint. That's what I think it really is and I think it's petty and shallow.



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Jaicee said:

Who's Gabby?

See, this is it right here. You know so little about the game that you can't even name its main characters (her name is Abby), yet you've reached all these sweeping, invariably negative conclusions about it based solely on some carefully cherry-picked videos you saw on YouTube and felt the need to jump on this thread just to shit on it. Why? What's it to you?

Spoiler!

The notion that Joel is treated contemptuously by the game's developers just seems silly to me. You act like he was just shot two minutes into the game and then forgotten or something. His presence in Ellie's internal life is felt throughout the entire game and indeed determines its outcome. Joel is routinely humanized throughout in the form of memories that Ellie relives long after his passing, all the way through the game. Ellie's entire character arc is shaped by Joel's passing. In many ways, both Ellie and Abby exist in relationship to Joel and as representatives of different aspects of his personality.

I've definitely felt the weight of losing Joel throughout my playthroughs, although maybe I'm predisposed to being that I've lost my whole immediate family too and my dad was well let's just say no Joel. That's among the many sense in which I mentally-emotionally connect to Ellie's position a lot. It really, really hurt to lose Joel. Even after it's clear why he was killed, it still hurt a lot. I mean the way that scene concluded when Ellie entered the room...the scene at the grave site, visiting Joel's house, the compassion that Dina in particular shows to Ellie...Tommy's impulsive response, admittedly...maybe I'm an overly-emotional sap (I'll admit that I am cryer; I tear up easily), but that shit got to me. It really did. It has me bawling like a baby every time. I was emotionally aligned with Ellie's decision to pursue Abby and the others even though I really knew it was wrong. The humanization of Abby did provide a welcome new perspective on events to me and went a long ways toward bringing home the game's core points about not just revenge in a literal sense, but like finding yourself psychologically trapped, prevented from moving forward with your life, possessed in a sense by loved ones or other treasured things that you've lost.

Anyway, I didn't feel that Abby's characterization was wholly at the expense of Joel's. I mean she pretty much winds up in a Joel-like role herself vis-a-vis Lev in the end, ironically enough. Still, I always felt the most like Ellie throughout even if she's not really my favorite character because I see myself as a very flawed person prone to making the wrong decisions often and I just generally have probably more in common with Ellie than I do with any other video game character really in terms of lived experiences, including real struggles with just not liking myself or feeling like I have value so much as just being a burden to the world. Abby's morality shifts a little too much for me to connect to quite as much and the people who like her the best often seem like just generally judgmental people. Sometimes I feel like saying "You don't actually have to only care about Joel on the one hand or Abby on the Abby on the other, you know? There is this other, main character in the game too who nobody seems to remember or care much about." But then I think that I'm being selfish in a way by thinking that, just because I feel like Ellie a lot when I play this game. Well anyway, I've gone on too long and gotten off-topic a bit with musings that weren't called for. Sorry.

Look, I don't dislike you as a person or anything. I just think you're believing what you want to believe about a game you're clearly not familiar with and wonder why it is you're so determined to.

Okay.. I made a spelling mistake, but if you want to use that as your argument that i know nothing about the game, i wont stop you. I have seen 2 full play throughs for this game in person and i have also finished the 1st game myself. I watched my Sister play from start to finish and i watch my mate play it from start to finish. I think the game looks quite good from what i have seen however i am not warranted to make an opinion on the game as i haven't personally played it myself. The flashbacks are the best thing in this game but the forced character development isn't for some hence the reactions Joe makes with the sex scene and the dog playing with Abby part. Its not that he doesn't like them, its how they slapped it on his face unwarranted. I can sort of relate when i saw the scenes too. I was thinking, you kill one of our favorite characters and now you are making us like Abby? That's the thought in my mind when viewing those scenes too.

Joe is far from the only one on YouTube that claims this game isn't a master piece. Jim Sterling thinks the game is around a 7 in his book and that guy doesn't care about Youtube reactions at all. You don't have to go far on the net to find people disliking it. Not everyone is going to like the game. But when a game is disliked we don't show respect, instead try to nit pick someone's brain to work out that they have an issue rather than take the criticism as what it is, criticism.

Anyway, you are taking my response all the wrong way, i am not the one crapping on the game, i am proving that not everyone who dislikes the game is an idiot or sexist, or homophobe. No one is calling you any names for liking it, same method should apply for those who dislike it as well. Hence why i linked the video.

Last edited by Azzanation - on 20 December 2020

Jaicee said:
KratosLives said:

Did you see him during the "sex scene"?, he clearly doesn't get it.

I'm gonna be honest here, I'm not sure that the rest of your post I'm quoting was actually helpful to the cause. I think you're too used to being in the world of internet toxicity and really should try just a little harder to shed that overly aggressive mentality if possible, if I can be so bold as to offer that personal advice. Life back in perspective: it's a game! Real people don't need to die over it. Not because they created the game, nor because they BSed about it to an audience. So anyway, beyond saying that I'm just gonna focus on the above part of your post that I agreed with because I think this provocative rhetoric about wanting to kill real people over a video game is very unhelpful.

So anyway, yeah, I too find the gripes one sometimes encounters about the very minimal, and frankly adorable, sexual content in this game pretty rich, considering the sources. I don't know about you, but I've sometimes seen people being all "why did they include needless sex stuff, it's so pointless and Hollywood" and then seen those very same people, in the next breath, announcing their plans to buy Cyberpunk 2077 precisely for its heavily-advertised needless sexual content. The minimal sexual content in TLOU2 obviously exists to service the development of its leading characters. It's not gratuitous or exploitative of them. I'm not sure you can always say that in the case of that other game. The real reason I think people object to seeing characters like Ellie and Dina and Abby less than fully clothed is because they don't look much like the women in that other game tend to. Many men I think find the idea that women of shapes that don't resemble those of fashion models or porn stars might have sex lives too or might be attractive to somebody repugnant on a level that merits complaint. That's what I think it really is and I think it's petty and shallow.

What was wrong with what I said?



The Last of Us Part II is probably my game of the year... and I only give it a 7.5/10. It's been a bad year for games imo, last year wasn't great either. Hopefully 2021 delivers.



KratosLives said:

What was wrong with what I said?

Well I thinking of this in particular: "Honestly trying to watch joe throughout that review, i couldn't help but wish i was abby smacking joe's head in with a golf club, that's how irritating and dumb he was."

I just feel like musing aloud about committing real violence against real people over a video game, however hyperbolically this statement might been intended, feeds into a narrative that's not helpful is all.




Srassy said:

Yeah, you're not going to persuade anyone Azzanation. The Church of Scientology is only slightly less sensitive than the cult of The Last of Us 2.

You might not believe this, but it is, in fact, possible for someone to disagree with your opinion and also have a brain.

Personally, I feel that I've been consistently willing to outline and detail my own perspective on just about every notable aspect of this game at one point or another, on one thread or another, at this point, including my criticisms. That's right: I don't think The Last of Us Part II is a perfect game either! I mean there's no such thing as a perfect game, in my opinion. This game too contains elements I find disagreeable. If you'd like me to elaborate on some of my own criticisms of TLOU2 here, I can do so. Just say the word!

But I mean yeah, when asked to respond to arguments I hear all the time such as...

-Joel wasn't given due respect by the developers.
-Abby is a contrivance.
-The "walking parts" and romance arcs are a bore; the game should just be non-stop violence.
-The game should be open world rather than semi-linear.
-The game is too dark and depressing and should really just be a life sim.

...I'm going to shoot those arguments down because I hear them all the time and no, I'm not coming around to agreement with them. I've laid out my reasoning expansively on each of those things at this point. I mean I've offered everything short of a moment-by-moment breakdown of the entire game. I don't know what you want from me or what it takes to prove that I actually have thought-out, well-considered, independent opinions of my own, but I think I've made a fair enough effort by now for you to at least address me directly when you're talking about me. You're not too good or too brilliant to show me that level of respect.

Last edited by Jaicee - on 21 December 2020