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Forums - Sony Discussion - The Last of Us Part II Wins Game of the Year!

DonFerrari on 17 December 2020
Azzanation said:
Hynad said:

Funny how you always reuse the words of those you debate with seemingly without understanding  their meanings...

Joe  makes it clear he wanted the game to be more like cliché filled Hollywood movies, when he expresses how Joel should have died and how much more exposition he wanted him to have, completely missing the point the story is making about loss, which is in huge part felt from the get go when you’re given the memo that Joel won’t be there. He wanted more cliché conversations between Joel and Ellie, with him telling her how much he considered her as a daughter. Cheaply written emotional sequences just to have more cute moments between Joel and Ellie. Despite the first game serving exactly that role.  He wanted to be spoon fed what is already made obvious by the tone, non-spoken moments, and the way the characters act towards each other. All of what Joe asked of the game is based on his fantasy, and displays a lack of objectivity in regards to writing.

If this story made little sense to him, that’s because he was hard set on being blind and deaf the entire time. Because the game sets out to make the player feel what Ellie and Abby feel, and if you quit asking the game to be something it has never set itself to be and take it as is, there is nothing that doesn’t make sense in the story.

Nothing you said is what Joe wanted. He is the opposite to what you are saying. He clearly stated examples of the usual forced sex scene and the typical cliche story line that you see in many movies. He also did a similar comparison to how the new Star Wars movies assassinated its characters. Either way, Joe doesn't like it and he was a huge fan of the 1st game. He has lost interest in the direction of the story and he is not the only one, there are many gamer's on Youtube, Jim Sterling claims the game to be overrated. His review is a little more fair than Joe's but still sees the flaws in the narrative and story etc.

DonFerrari said:

And how much of the game have you played? Care to share with us so we can see that you formed your opinion of playing instead of watching the YT that didn't like the game?

I watched my sister and mate play though it. Plus I am not Angry Joe here Don, I am not the one forming the opinion here, go speak to him about it. I was clearly stating not all gamers liked the game, as someone mentioned in this thread. 

Sure, you have stayed and paid attention to the whole game while looking others play.

You are trying to pass his opinion as your own. But ok, thanks for clarifying.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

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Chrkeller on 17 December 2020
DonFerrari said:
Azzanation said:

Yes and no. Id agree his opinion on Joel's death was over reacted however you cannot deny all his other points he brings up with the game either. He can only go with his emotions in the end. He didn't like the game, to him, it felt like the first game recycled with better visuals and less favorable characters and story narrative etc. The story made little sense to Joe with many plot holes and hollywood pushed cliches which was completely against what he wanted. He even said Joel dying wasn't the problem, its how he died which brings us back to the modern Star Wars movies and the character assassinations to make room for newer characters.

Not surprised with your last comment, and to make it completely pointless, i watch Joe, he is just as hard on the games i enjoy, however i don't treat him any differently because of his brutally honest opinion. I respect it like all the other reviews his done. 

He sums it right up with his reaction. @16:52 his throughts.

 

And how much of the game have you played? Care to share with us so we can see that you formed your opinion of playing instead of watching the YT that didn't like the game?

I beat the game and didn't like it much.  First half was stellar, second half was sluggish.  The second half felt like starting the game over and going through all the same areas.  I still think Last 2 would have been way better using a RE2 system, where the game can be beaten with scenario A (character 1) and again later with scenario B (character 2).  Getting to an apex, only to reset and have to play another 10 hours to see the ending was a bad design decision.  And the last area was terrible, stretched too far.  Should have ended in the movie theater.



Azzanation on 17 December 2020
DonFerrari said:

Sure, you have stayed and paid attention to the whole game while looking others play.

You are trying to pass his opinion as your own. But ok, thanks for clarifying.

I am not giving my opinion on the game, as i haven't personally played it myself. That doesn't stop me from watching reviews etc. 



DonFerrari on 17 December 2020
Chrkeller said:
DonFerrari said:

And how much of the game have you played? Care to share with us so we can see that you formed your opinion of playing instead of watching the YT that didn't like the game?

I beat the game and didn't like it much.  First half was stellar, second half was sluggish.  The second half felt like starting the game over and going through all the same areas.  I still think Last 2 would have been way better using a RE2 system, where the game can be beaten with scenario A (character 1) and again later with scenario B (character 2).  Getting to an apex, only to reset and have to play another 10 hours to see the ending was a bad design decision.  And the last area was terrible, stretched too far.  Should have ended in the movie theater.

What you are suggesting, Scenario A and B is in essence exactly what was done. You play scenario A with Ellie, scenario B with Abby and then true ending. At least you aren`t asking that it constantly change the char because that would totally ruin the intended delivery of emotions of the game and story.

Azzanation said:
DonFerrari said:

Sure, you have stayed and paid attention to the whole game while looking others play.

You are trying to pass his opinion as your own. But ok, thanks for clarifying.

I am not giving my opinion on the game, as i haven't personally played it myself. That doesn't stop me from watching reviews etc. 

So you are just parroting the negatives appointed by others? Why not the positives? Because considering the reviews the game got and the prizes if you were looking randomly it would be more likely to find positive reviews than negatives.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

Chrkeller on 17 December 2020

It isn't a true scenario A and scenario B. In RE 2 I'm not forced to stop playing as Claire at the finale and forced to play as Leon in order to see the credits. What I am saying is Ellie should have finished out at the movie theater, credits roll. Then Abby opens up as optional scenario B. Optional and forced are drastically different. And again, I've played the game to completion. The game was a 7/10 for me personally.  Given half the game was restarting from the beginning; revisiting the same places and having to build up your character from scratch.  Plus Abby was a boring character with essentially the same story as Ellie.  He dad was killed, she sought revenge, realized it wasn't worth it.  Ellie 2.0, but with bigger muscles. 

Pacing was bad in this one.  Especially with the last area, just too much.  Movie theater should have been game over.    

Edit

And to be clear the whole political aspect of this game bothered me zero.  I thought it was overblown.  My issues were exclusively pacing.  

Last edited by Chrkeller - on 17 December 2020

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KLAMarine on 17 December 2020

Interesting review

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xa9oEroGDQc



DonFerrari on 17 December 2020
Chrkeller said:

It isn't a true scenario A and scenario B. In RE 2 I'm not forced to stop playing as Claire at the finale and forced to play as Leon in order to see the credits. What I am saying is Ellie should have finished out at the movie theater, credits roll. Then Abby opens up as optional scenario B. Optional and forced are drastically different. And again, I've played the game to completion. The game was a 7/10 for me personally.  Given half the game was restarting from the beginning; revisiting the same places and having to build up your character from scratch.  Plus Abby was a boring character with essentially the same story as Ellie.  He dad was killed, she sought revenge, realized it wasn't worth it.  Ellie 2.0, but with bigger muscles. 

Pacing was bad in this one.  Especially with the last area, just too much.  Movie theater should have been game over.    

Edit

And to be clear the whole political aspect of this game bothered me zero.  I thought it was overblown.  My issues were exclusively pacing.  

If for you after the theater a rolling credit would suffice and on RE when you change char you also start from scratch I truly fail to see the real benefit it would bring.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

Chrkeller on 17 December 2020
DonFerrari said:
Chrkeller said:

It isn't a true scenario A and scenario B. In RE 2 I'm not forced to stop playing as Claire at the finale and forced to play as Leon in order to see the credits. What I am saying is Ellie should have finished out at the movie theater, credits roll. Then Abby opens up as optional scenario B. Optional and forced are drastically different. And again, I've played the game to completion. The game was a 7/10 for me personally.  Given half the game was restarting from the beginning; revisiting the same places and having to build up your character from scratch.  Plus Abby was a boring character with essentially the same story as Ellie.  He dad was killed, she sought revenge, realized it wasn't worth it.  Ellie 2.0, but with bigger muscles. 

Pacing was bad in this one.  Especially with the last area, just too much.  Movie theater should have been game over.    

Edit

And to be clear the whole political aspect of this game bothered me zero.  I thought it was overblown.  My issues were exclusively pacing.  

If for you after the theater a rolling credit would suffice and on RE when you change char you also start from scratch I truly fail to see the real benefit it would bring.

As previously explained, the player shouldn't be forced to play as Abby, it should be optional.  Abby was boring and redundant, which ruined the pacing of the game.  This is about as simple as I can explain my position.  Hopefully it helps.



DonFerrari on 17 December 2020
Chrkeller said:
DonFerrari said:

If for you after the theater a rolling credit would suffice and on RE when you change char you also start from scratch I truly fail to see the real benefit it would bring.

As previously explained, the player shouldn't be forced to play as Abby, it should be optional.  Abby was boring and redundant, which ruined the pacing of the game.  This is about as simple as I can explain my position.  Hopefully it helps.

If you consider that finishing the game at Ellie theather sequence would have done it for you. Then you aren't obligated to play as Abby, consider that extra. And sorry but not only Abby gameplay is very different than Ellie the storyline is also very different with different purpose, only on the end it truly goes aligning with Ellie. But ok if you would be happy if they delivered only 30-40% of the game ok.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

Chrkeller on 17 December 2020
DonFerrari said:
Chrkeller said:

As previously explained, the player shouldn't be forced to play as Abby, it should be optional.  Abby was boring and redundant, which ruined the pacing of the game.  This is about as simple as I can explain my position.  Hopefully it helps.

If you consider that finishing the game at Ellie theather sequence would have done it for you. Then you aren't obligated to play as Abby, consider that extra. And sorry but not only Abby gameplay is very different than Ellie the storyline is also very different with different purpose, only on the end it truly goes aligning with Ellie. But ok if you would be happy if they delivered only 30-40% of the game ok.

Yes, I think the game would be better if it stopped at Ellie in the theater.  More isn't always better.  In fact I think 'more' often hurts games as opposed to helping.  As an example with FFVII Remake, instead of 24 side quests, 23 of which are horribly lame, it would have been better with 10 great side quests.  Ghost is too long and really makes the repetitive aspects stand out.  Dark Souls 2 has 'more' bosses than Souls 1.  But Souls 1 is better because the bosses are better.  I've never had a problem with short games, in fact I think short games are often the better, because the are focused and deliver well.

And we will have to agree to disagree.  I thought the story of Abby was the same as Ellie.  Ellie lost her father figure, sought revenge.  Abby lost her father, sought revenge.  The gameplay was virtually identical (minus slightly different weapons) and many of the levels were already visited by Ellie.  It was just meh for me.  I love playing as Ellie, lost interest with Abby.  But had no choice to force myself to finish with Abby so I could beat the game.  Feeling forced to finish something isn't a good feeling.