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Forums - Sony Discussion - The Last of Us Part II Wins Game of the Year!

twintail said:
pikashoe said:

Very disappointing choice, I'm sorry but such a divisive game just should not win goty. my personal pick would have been hades. But honestly the game that deserved it was obviously animal crossing. I've never seen a game have such a positive influence on so many people during such a dark time. Although like Oscars, Emmys, Grammys etc they are in the end completely meaningless and pointless.

Also I didn't hate the game. It had some great moments. But when taking the good and the bad the game ends up just being ok

I don't think divisiveness among the community should really be a reason something wins or doesn't. 

That seems markedly unfair. But, I suppose that is the reason why the community award exists. And TloU2 would've taken it, but narrowly missed out to Ghost (the reasons are unimportant now).

If anything, the game isn't quite as divisive as it may appear to be. Journalists loved it. Gamers loved it, too. 

I do think a 'good vibes' award could be a good idea. Something that promotes more positivity. 

You clearly haven't watched Angry Joe's opinion on the game or the awards. It doesn't get much Gamer than him. 

He brings up some valid points that seem to be ignored by the industry and even got called a Basement dwelling virgin by other professionals due to him having a different opinion. "The industry circled the wagons" seems to have been one of the popular lines from him.

Ill link the video, if you are interested to see why his negative towards the game. This is coming from a guy who loved the first game too. 

SPOILERS below



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Azzanation said:
twintail said:

I don't think divisiveness among the community should really be a reason something wins or doesn't. 

That seems markedly unfair. But, I suppose that is the reason why the community award exists. And TloU2 would've taken it, but narrowly missed out to Ghost (the reasons are unimportant now).

If anything, the game isn't quite as divisive as it may appear to be. Journalists loved it. Gamers loved it, too. 

I do think a 'good vibes' award could be a good idea. Something that promotes more positivity. 

You clearly haven't watched Angry Joe's opinion on the game or the awards. It doesn't get much Gamer than him. 

He brings up some valid points that seem to be ignored by the industry and even got called a Basement dwelling virgin by other professionals due to him having a different opinion. "The industry circled the wagons" seems to have been one of the popular lines from him.

Ill link the video, if you are interested to see why his negative towards the game. This is coming from a guy who loved the first game too. 

SPOILERS below

Yes, his comments about the game were tone deaf and his emotional response to the infamous event early in the game was carried throughout the entirety of his play-through. He knocked the game down based on what he expected or wished the game to be, instead of rating it for what it was. Many did that, and I was disappointed in him for taking that approach, even though he’s always been known to be an over-reactive guy.

He does make some valid points when it comes to gameplay, but most of the rest is blown out of proportion and over-amplified by his inability both to get over his emotional reaction and to look at the story objectively as a result. He expected Hollywood storytelling clichés, longer character send off and spoon feeding, and complained the whole time he didn’t get any of those. Analyzing the game based on what he wanted it to be instead of taking it as it is: a cruel, harsh world in which you rarely get your way, and when you’re lucky to get it, it’s hardly in the way you planned. That’s fine to have expectations, but people who approach stories with that state of mind are hardly ever worth taking their criticism for more than amateurish literary critics.

Not surprised you give credibility to this review though. Fits.

Last edited by Hynad - on 17 December 2020

Hynad said:
Azzanation said:

You clearly haven't watched Angry Joe's opinion on the game or the awards. It doesn't get much Gamer than him. 

He brings up some valid points that seem to be ignored by the industry and even got called a Basement dwelling virgin by other professionals due to him having a different opinion. "The industry circled the wagons" seems to have been one of the popular lines from him.

Ill link the video, if you are interested to see why his negative towards the game. This is coming from a guy who loved the first game too. 

SPOILERS below

Yes, his comments about the game were tone deaf and his emotional response to the infamous event early in the game was carried throughout the entirety of his play-through. He knocked the game down based on what he expected or wished the game to be, instead of rating it for what it was. Many did that, and I was disappointed in him for taking that approach, even though he’s always been known to be an over-reactive guy.

He does make some valid points when it comes to gameplay, but most of the rest is blown out of proportion and over-amplified by his inability to get over his emotional reaction and look at the story with objectivity. He expected Hollywood storytelling clichés, longer character send off and spoon feeding, and complained the whole time he didn’t get any of those. Analyzing the game based on what he wanted it to be instead of taking it as it is: a cruel, harsh world in which you rarely get your way, and when you’re lucky to get it, it’s hardly in the way you planned. That’s fine to have expectations, but people who approach stories with that state of mind are hardly ever worth taking their criticism for more than amateurish literary criticism.

Not surprised you give credibility to this review though. Fits.

Yes and no. Id agree his opinion on Joel's death was over reacted however you cannot deny all his other points he brings up with the game either. He can only go with his emotions in the end. He didn't like the game, to him, it felt like the first game recycled with better visuals and less favorable characters and story narrative etc. The story made little sense to Joe with many plot holes and hollywood pushed cliches which was completely against what he wanted. He even said Joel dying wasn't the problem, its how he died which brings us back to the modern Star Wars movies and the character assassinations to make room for newer characters.

Not surprised with your last comment, and to make it completely pointless, i watch Joe, he is just as hard on the games i enjoy, however i don't treat him any differently because of his brutally honest opinion. I respect it like all the other reviews his done. 

He sums it right up with his reaction. @16:52 his throughts.

 

Last edited by Azzanation - on 17 December 2020

Azzanation said:
Hynad said:

Yes, his comments about the game were tone deaf and his emotional response to the infamous event early in the game was carried throughout the entirety of his play-through. He knocked the game down based on what he expected or wished the game to be, instead of rating it for what it was. Many did that, and I was disappointed in him for taking that approach, even though he’s always been known to be an over-reactive guy.

He does make some valid points when it comes to gameplay, but most of the rest is blown out of proportion and over-amplified by his inability to get over his emotional reaction and look at the story with objectivity. He expected Hollywood storytelling clichés, longer character send off and spoon feeding, and complained the whole time he didn’t get any of those. Analyzing the game based on what he wanted it to be instead of taking it as it is: a cruel, harsh world in which you rarely get your way, and when you’re lucky to get it, it’s hardly in the way you planned. That’s fine to have expectations, but people who approach stories with that state of mind are hardly ever worth taking their criticism for more than amateurish literary criticism.

Not surprised you give credibility to this review though. Fits.

Yes and no. Id agree his opinion on Joel's death was over reacted however you cannot deny all his other points he brings up with the game either. He can only go with his emotions in the end. He didn't like the game, to him, it felt like the first game recycled with better visuals and less favorable characters and story narrative etc. The story made little sense to Joe with many plot holes and hollywood pushed cliches which was completely against what he wanted. He even said Joel dying wasn't the problem, its how he died which brings us back to the modern Star Wars movies and the character assassinations to make room for newer characters.

Not surprised with your last comment, and to make it completely pointless, i watch Joe, he is just as hard on the games i enjoy, however i don't treat him any differently because of his brutally honest opinion. I respect it like all the other reviews his done. 

He sums it right up with his reaction. @16:52 his throughts.

 

Funny how you always reuse the words of those you debate with seemingly without understanding  their meanings...

Joe  makes it clear he wanted the game to be more like cliché filled Hollywood movies, when he expresses how Joel should have died and how much more exposition he wanted him to have, completely missing the point the story is making about loss, which is in huge part felt from the get go when you’re given the memo that Joel won’t be there. He wanted more cliché conversations between Joel and Ellie, with him telling her how much he considered her as a daughter. Cheaply written emotional sequences just to have more cute moments between Joel and Ellie. Despite the first game serving exactly that role.  He wanted to be spoon fed what is already made obvious by the tone, non-spoken moments, and the way the characters act towards each other. All of what Joe asked of the game is based on his fantasy, and displays a lack of objectivity in regards to writing.

If this story made little sense to him, that’s because he was hard set on being blind and deaf the entire time. Because the game sets out to make the player feel what Ellie and Abby feel, and if you quit asking the game to be something it has never set itself to be and take it as is, there is nothing that doesn’t make sense in the story.

Last edited by Hynad - on 17 December 2020

Hynad said:
Azzanation said:

Yes and no. Id agree his opinion on Joel's death was over reacted however you cannot deny all his other points he brings up with the game either. He can only go with his emotions in the end. He didn't like the game, to him, it felt like the first game recycled with better visuals and less favorable characters and story narrative etc. The story made little sense to Joe with many plot holes and hollywood pushed cliches which was completely against what he wanted. He even said Joel dying wasn't the problem, its how he died which brings us back to the modern Star Wars movies and the character assassinations to make room for newer characters.

Not surprised with your last comment, and to make it completely pointless, i watch Joe, he is just as hard on the games i enjoy, however i don't treat him any differently because of his brutally honest opinion. I respect it like all the other reviews his done. 

He sums it right up with his reaction. @16:52 his throughts.

 

Funny how you always reuse the words of those you debate with seemingly without understanding  their meanings...

Joe  makes it clear he wanted the game to be more like cliché filled Hollywood movies, when he expresses how Joel should have died and how much more exposition he wanted him to have, completely missing the point the story is making about loss, which is in huge part felt from the get go when you’re given the memo that Joel won’t be there. He wanted more cliché conversations between Joel and Ellie, with him telling her how much he considered her as a daughter. Cheaply written emotional sequences just to have more cute moments between Joel and Ellie. Despite the first game serving exactly that role.  He wanted to be spoon fed what is already made obvious by the tone, non-spoken moments, and the way the characters act towards each other. All of what Joe asked of the game is based on his fantasy, and displays a lack of objectivity in regards to writing.

If this story made little sense to him, that’s because he was hard set on being blind and deaf the entire time. Because the game sets out to make the player feel what Ellie and Abby feel, and if you quit asking the game to be something it has never set itself to be and take it as is, there is nothing that doesn’t make sense in the story.

You really remind me of the people that think batman v superman is a deep intellectual film. When in reality it's just something that has the depth of a puddle.

TLOU 2 is not some original intellectual storyline. It's a basic cycle of revenge storyline that's been done a million times before and often a lot better than here. The story and characters are often so contrived in this game.

I don't have an issue with the way Joel died. It's pretty cliche to have the mentor/father figure die and the protagonist seek vengeance but it's a good way of giving the protagonist reason to go on a journey.

I do have some pretty big issues with Joel's characterization in relation to his death. Joel never came across as a person that would fall for the situation that got him killed, this is shown in the 1st game. The big issue is that they didn't show or hint that Joel had become less cautious in this game. So when he falls for it in the game it just comes across as a big contrivance. Before you say that showing that Joel has changed is spoon feeding the audience, it's not it is basic characterization something that they completely failed at here which takes a lot away from this big moment because it lacks believability.

We can also get into the obvious emotional manipulation to make the audience like Abby more than Ellie. Now this I just found to insult audience intelligence. It's so on the nose and in your face that it was irritating. Ellie kills dogs but Abby plays catch with, this made my eyes roll into the back of my skull. They've got the subtly of a sledgehammer here.

There's the bland cast of new characters aside from Abby. Ellie's friends are introduced don't really say or do anything interesting. Her girlfriend was wasted and just sidelined quickly. Abby's friends are worse just a bunch of stock characters written to die. So few new characters are given much time to make an impression and it's so hard to care.

Then there's the ending which just makes no sense at all. After killing hundreds upon hundreds of people she let's Abby live. The contrivance here is on a whole other level. Literally minutes before this she was killing people without a care in the world. Also the fight here is ridiculous Abby shouldn't be able to stand never mind get into a prolonged fight scene, but I guess we need our big climax so screw believability. 

I could go on and on about the issues with this game, I only briefly touched on most issues but I could into a lot more depth on the problems. Don't even get me started on the pacing.

As I've said before I don't hate the game, but it has a lot of issues.



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pikashoe said:

You really remind me of the people that think batman v superman is a deep intellectual film. When in reality it's just something that has the depth of a puddle.

TLOU 2 is not some original intellectual storyline. It's a basic cycle of revenge storyline that's been done a million times before and often a lot better than here. The story and characters are often so contrived in this game.

I don't have an issue with the way Joel died. It's pretty cliche to have the mentor/father figure die and the protagonist seek vengeance but it's a good way of giving the protagonist reason to go on a journey.

I do have some pretty big issues with Joel's characterization in relation to his death. Joel never came across as a person that would fall for the situation that got him killed, this is shown in the 1st game. The big issue is that they didn't show or hint that Joel had become less cautious in this game. So when he falls for it in the game it just comes across as a big contrivance. Before you say that showing that Joel has changed is spoon feeding the audience, it's not it is basic characterization something that they completely failed at here which takes a lot away from this big moment because it lacks believability.

We can also get into the obvious emotional manipulation to make the audience like Abby more than Ellie. Now this I just found to insult audience intelligence. It's so on the nose and in your face that it was irritating. Ellie kills dogs but Abby plays catch with, this made my eyes roll into the back of my skull. They've got the subtly of a sledgehammer here.

There's the bland cast of new characters aside from Abby. Ellie's friends are introduced don't really say or do anything interesting. Her girlfriend was wasted and just sidelined quickly. Abby's friends are worse just a bunch of stock characters written to die. So few new characters are given much time to make an impression and it's so hard to care.

Then there's the ending which just makes no sense at all. After killing hundreds upon hundreds of people she let's Abby live. The contrivance here is on a whole other level. Literally minutes before this she was killing people without a care in the world. Also the fight here is ridiculous Abby shouldn't be able to stand never mind get into a prolonged fight scene, but I guess we need our big climax so screw believability. 

I could go on and on about the issues with this game, I only briefly touched on most issues but I could into a lot more depth on the problems. Don't even get me started on the pacing.

As I've said before I don't hate the game, but it has a lot of issues.

Exhibit 1



Azzanation said:
Hynad said:

Yes, his comments about the game were tone deaf and his emotional response to the infamous event early in the game was carried throughout the entirety of his play-through. He knocked the game down based on what he expected or wished the game to be, instead of rating it for what it was. Many did that, and I was disappointed in him for taking that approach, even though he’s always been known to be an over-reactive guy.

He does make some valid points when it comes to gameplay, but most of the rest is blown out of proportion and over-amplified by his inability to get over his emotional reaction and look at the story with objectivity. He expected Hollywood storytelling clichés, longer character send off and spoon feeding, and complained the whole time he didn’t get any of those. Analyzing the game based on what he wanted it to be instead of taking it as it is: a cruel, harsh world in which you rarely get your way, and when you’re lucky to get it, it’s hardly in the way you planned. That’s fine to have expectations, but people who approach stories with that state of mind are hardly ever worth taking their criticism for more than amateurish literary criticism.

Not surprised you give credibility to this review though. Fits.

Yes and no. Id agree his opinion on Joel's death was over reacted however you cannot deny all his other points he brings up with the game either. He can only go with his emotions in the end. He didn't like the game, to him, it felt like the first game recycled with better visuals and less favorable characters and story narrative etc. The story made little sense to Joe with many plot holes and hollywood pushed cliches which was completely against what he wanted. He even said Joel dying wasn't the problem, its how he died which brings us back to the modern Star Wars movies and the character assassinations to make room for newer characters.

Not surprised with your last comment, and to make it completely pointless, i watch Joe, he is just as hard on the games i enjoy, however i don't treat him any differently because of his brutally honest opinion. I respect it like all the other reviews his done. 

He sums it right up with his reaction. @16:52 his throughts.

 

And how much of the game have you played? Care to share with us so we can see that you formed your opinion of playing instead of watching the YT that didn't like the game?



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

Hynad said:
pikashoe said:

You really remind me of the people that think batman v superman is a deep intellectual film. When in reality it's just something that has the depth of a puddle.

TLOU 2 is not some original intellectual storyline. It's a basic cycle of revenge storyline that's been done a million times before and often a lot better than here. The story and characters are often so contrived in this game.

I don't have an issue with the way Joel died. It's pretty cliche to have the mentor/father figure die and the protagonist seek vengeance but it's a good way of giving the protagonist reason to go on a journey.

I do have some pretty big issues with Joel's characterization in relation to his death. Joel never came across as a person that would fall for the situation that got him killed, this is shown in the 1st game. The big issue is that they didn't show or hint that Joel had become less cautious in this game. So when he falls for it in the game it just comes across as a big contrivance. Before you say that showing that Joel has changed is spoon feeding the audience, it's not it is basic characterization something that they completely failed at here which takes a lot away from this big moment because it lacks believability.

We can also get into the obvious emotional manipulation to make the audience like Abby more than Ellie. Now this I just found to insult audience intelligence. It's so on the nose and in your face that it was irritating. Ellie kills dogs but Abby plays catch with, this made my eyes roll into the back of my skull. They've got the subtly of a sledgehammer here.

There's the bland cast of new characters aside from Abby. Ellie's friends are introduced don't really say or do anything interesting. Her girlfriend was wasted and just sidelined quickly. Abby's friends are worse just a bunch of stock characters written to die. So few new characters are given much time to make an impression and it's so hard to care.

Then there's the ending which just makes no sense at all. After killing hundreds upon hundreds of people she let's Abby live. The contrivance here is on a whole other level. Literally minutes before this she was killing people without a care in the world. Also the fight here is ridiculous Abby shouldn't be able to stand never mind get into a prolonged fight scene, but I guess we need our big climax so screw believability. 

I could go on and on about the issues with this game, I only briefly touched on most issues but I could into a lot more depth on the problems. Don't even get me started on the pacing.

As I've said before I don't hate the game, but it has a lot of issues.

Exhibit 1

Care to elaborate?



Hynad said:
Azzanation said:

Yes and no. Id agree his opinion on Joel's death was over reacted however you cannot deny all his other points he brings up with the game either. He can only go with his emotions in the end. He didn't like the game, to him, it felt like the first game recycled with better visuals and less favorable characters and story narrative etc. The story made little sense to Joe with many plot holes and hollywood pushed cliches which was completely against what he wanted. He even said Joel dying wasn't the problem, its how he died which brings us back to the modern Star Wars movies and the character assassinations to make room for newer characters.

Not surprised with your last comment, and to make it completely pointless, i watch Joe, he is just as hard on the games i enjoy, however i don't treat him any differently because of his brutally honest opinion. I respect it like all the other reviews his done. 

He sums it right up with his reaction. @16:52 his throughts.

 

Funny how you always reuse the words of those you debate with seemingly without understanding  their meanings...

Joe  makes it clear he wanted the game to be more like cliché filled Hollywood movies, when he expresses how Joel should have died and how much more exposition he wanted him to have, completely missing the point the story is making about loss, which is in huge part felt from the get go when you’re given the memo that Joel won’t be there. He wanted more cliché conversations between Joel and Ellie, with him telling her how much he considered her as a daughter. Cheaply written emotional sequences just to have more cute moments between Joel and Ellie. Despite the first game serving exactly that role.  He wanted to be spoon fed what is already made obvious by the tone, non-spoken moments, and the way the characters act towards each other. All of what Joe asked of the game is based on his fantasy, and displays a lack of objectivity in regards to writing.

If this story made little sense to him, that’s because he was hard set on being blind and deaf the entire time. Because the game sets out to make the player feel what Ellie and Abby feel, and if you quit asking the game to be something it has never set itself to be and take it as is, there is nothing that doesn’t make sense in the story.

Nothing you said is what Joe wanted. He is the opposite to what you are saying. He clearly stated examples of the usual forced sex scene and the typical cliche story line that you see in many movies. He also did a similar comparison to how the new Star Wars movies assassinated its characters. Either way, Joe doesn't like it and he was a huge fan of the 1st game. He has lost interest in the direction of the story and he is not the only one, there are many gamer's on Youtube, Jim Sterling claims the game to be overrated. His review is a little more fair than Joe's but still sees the flaws in the narrative and story etc.

DonFerrari said:

And how much of the game have you played? Care to share with us so we can see that you formed your opinion of playing instead of watching the YT that didn't like the game?

I watched my sister and mate play though it. Plus I am not Angry Joe here Don, I am not the one forming the opinion here, go speak to him about it. I was clearly stating not all gamers liked the game, as someone mentioned in this thread. 

Last edited by Azzanation - on 17 December 2020

Azzanation said:
Hynad said:

Funny how you always reuse the words of those you debate with seemingly without understanding  their meanings...

Joe  makes it clear he wanted the game to be more like cliché filled Hollywood movies, when he expresses how Joel should have died and how much more exposition he wanted him to have, completely missing the point the story is making about loss, which is in huge part felt from the get go when you’re given the memo that Joel won’t be there. He wanted more cliché conversations between Joel and Ellie, with him telling her how much he considered her as a daughter. Cheaply written emotional sequences just to have more cute moments between Joel and Ellie. Despite the first game serving exactly that role.  He wanted to be spoon fed what is already made obvious by the tone, non-spoken moments, and the way the characters act towards each other. All of what Joe asked of the game is based on his fantasy, and displays a lack of objectivity in regards to writing.

If this story made little sense to him, that’s because he was hard set on being blind and deaf the entire time. Because the game sets out to make the player feel what Ellie and Abby feel, and if you quit asking the game to be something it has never set itself to be and take it as is, there is nothing that doesn’t make sense in the story.

Nothing you said is what Joe wanted. He is the opposite to what you are saying. He clearly stated examples of the usual forced sex scene and the typical cliche story line that you see in many movies. He also did a similar comparison to how the new Star Wars movies assassinated its characters. Either way, Joe doesn't like it and he was a huge fan of the 1st game. He has lost interest in the direction of the story and he is not the only one, there are many gamer's on Youtube, Jim Sterling claims the game to be overrated. His review is a little more fair than Joe's but still sees the flaws in the narrative and story etc.

DonFerrari said:

And how much of the game have you played? Care to share with us so we can see that you formed your opinion of playing instead of watching the YT that didn't like the game?

I watched my sister and mate play though it. Plus I am not Angry Joe here Don, I am not the one forming the opinion here, go speak to him about it. I was clearly stating not all gamers liked the game, as someone mentioned in this thread. 

Sure, you have stayed and paid attention to the whole game while looking others play.

You are trying to pass his opinion as your own. But ok, thanks for clarifying.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."