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Forums - Sony Discussion - The Last of Us Part II Wins Game of the Year!

I wonder how long this game will be passionately/aggressively talked about! Lol



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coolbeans said:
Azzanation said:

You clearly haven't watched Angry Joe's opinion on the game or the awards. It doesn't get much Gamer than him. 

He brings up some valid points that seem to be ignored by the industry and even got called a Basement dwelling virgin by other professionals due to him having a different opinion. "The industry circled the wagons" seems to have been one of the popular lines from him.

Ill link the video, if you are interested to see why his negative towards the game. This is coming from a guy who loved the first game too. 

SPOILERS below

I've hopped back in here, so how's about I add my 2 cents after everyone else has?  

I think one of the worst parts of your post is how it doesn't get much "Gamer" than Joe.  Credit where it's due: I acknowledge his approach of the 1-10 review scale compared to other sites when he initially came around.  Considering how easy 9's & 10's were handed out during 7th gen, you could call major outlets "hype sites" compared to him.  That said, it's not that great of an outlook if this is the guy we put on a pedestal, considering how often his gripes (though honest) come off as... pedestrian in the grand scheme of things.  That's just speaking as a former fan.

I still want to (occasionally) bat for Joe here b/c I think a couple of responses were unfair.  You (edit: not Azza but a couple responders here) may have built up a perfectly fine head-canon about Part II's storytelling structure and intention, but having this sneering attitude like "he's absolutely been destroyed on all counts of being totally biased times infinity" isn't really compelling.  Sure, his 'Justice4Joel' & 'Justice4Jesse' starting points are pretty dumb, but not every issue is centered around his wants like another poster put it.  You either didn't watch the whole thing OR you're intentionally being disingenuous.  

He does have more of a leg to stand on when him & his friends discuss pacing and structure.  I think anyone can sympathize with that frustration too.  Just think of it from his POV as an absolute fan of the first one:

-Part 1: a tightly-scripted 'world goes to hell' beginning that cuts to establishing an atmosphere of the oppressive regime Joel finds himself in.  2 POV's but they leave/enter at the perfect time for the emotion ND is trying to elicit.  It's like an interactive Children of Men scenario in some respects.

-Part 2: a beginning that jumps between 3 POV's for lopsided amounts of time where a greater amount of contrivances are necessary to reach the next scenario.  It's harder to find direct inspiration here.

You may argue of how ambitious this approach was, but I'd say it's unfair to brush this off as "oh well it'll just alienate some fans."  I'd argue it's a seismic shift that robs players of solid footing while feeling more laborious by comparison.  Part 1's more-typical setup works because of how succinct the beats fall into place.  As blatantly misguided as some of his criticisms are, let's not pretend to dilute his thoughts down to "game tarnished what I wanted to see with Joel therefore low score" to get ownage points.  

3 pov really? You really bringing in joel's 5 minute opening into this? The pacing in 2 was much better than the first game, which felt there was more chit chat and longer walks before any action. The sequel has better direction and every quiet slow paced moment was an opportunity to learn more, adding to the subtleties of character development. There was never a dull moment, every scene had a meaning and a purpose. Don't sugarcoat the fact for joe quite simply just couldn't come to terms with joels death early on and the sudden switch to abby, which he never recovered from.



coolbeans said:
KratosLives said:

3 pov really? You really bringing in joel's 5 minute opening into this? The pacing in 2 was much better than the first game, which felt there was more chit chat and longer walks before any action. The sequel has better direction and every quiet slow paced moment was an opportunity to learn more, adding to the subtleties of character development. There was never a dull moment, every scene had a meaning and a purpose. Don't sugarcoat the fact for joe quite simply just couldn't come to terms with joels death early on and the sudden switch to abby, which he never recovered from.

I literally bring up that there are 2 POV's in TLOU's opening hour.  Why would I not make the same accurate observation for Pt. II as well?

As for your thoughts on it, that's an outlook I can partially go along with.  The downtime for gameplay opportunities were typically gratifying but I rarely see that for the underwhelming character development aside from the Scar duo & Abby.  Majority of sides felt like uninteresting cannon fodder in comparison.

Except I literally bring up Joe's Justic4Joel reasoning as being "pretty dumb," which ought to be easily understood considering I'm quoting that video.  Holy shit.  At least try to absorb my point before doing this.  I didn't sugarcoat it; I'm just not willing to assemble a lazy strawman of his arguments, as you've so willingly done.  You're presuming you've got him figured out by taking the most uncharitable interpretation of his arguments.  

Name me one thing he said where he has a strong arguement case, and how he argued it convincingly.



coolbeans said:
KratosLives said:

Name me one thing he said where he has a strong arguement case, and how he argued it convincingly.

I see the previous plea to absorb my point is being taken in stride.

I brought it up in my first response to Azz: the pacing & story structure.  In regards to the beginning, Joe lists out the amount of time with each character: "Joel 6 minutes, then cut to Ellie for 20-ish, then Abby for *x* minutes, then back to Ellie..." and on and on it goes.  It's a fair and simple method to reveal a disparity between TLOU & Part II's start.  That uneven footing along with a number of coincidences can take you out of the experience.

Now what do you mean by this?  If you mean by his eloquence and vocabulary then you're moving the goalposts here.  As I already mentioned, I consider his gripes & overall outlook to be rather pedestrian.  And I believe his public speaking ability plateaued a few years ago.

We just spent 20 hrs with joel in the first game and joe has an issue with an opening with joel before moving onto someone else?  Ludicrous. The jumps between ellie and abby weren't short, was a few hrs of gameplay in between.  You talk about coincidences, the whole first game is driven on coincidences. Infact the story telling and cinematography /direction is amateurish compared to the sequel.



KratosLives said:
coolbeans said:

I see the previous plea to absorb my point is being taken in stride.

I brought it up in my first response to Azz: the pacing & story structure.  In regards to the beginning, Joe lists out the amount of time with each character: "Joel 6 minutes, then cut to Ellie for 20-ish, then Abby for *x* minutes, then back to Ellie..." and on and on it goes.  It's a fair and simple method to reveal a disparity between TLOU & Part II's start.  That uneven footing along with a number of coincidences can take you out of the experience.

Now what do you mean by this?  If you mean by his eloquence and vocabulary then you're moving the goalposts here.  As I already mentioned, I consider his gripes & overall outlook to be rather pedestrian.  And I believe his public speaking ability plateaued a few years ago.

We just spent 20 hrs with joel in the first game and joe has an issue with an opening with joel before moving onto someone else?  Ludicrous. The jumps between ellie and abby weren't short, was a few hrs of gameplay in between.  You talk about coincidences, the whole first game is driven on coincidences. Infact the story telling and cinematography /direction is amateurish compared to the sequel.



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Srassy said:
BraLoD said:

^ and people want to be taken serious like this? lol

Yeah, don't take me seriously.  Everyone else should be though as they're arguing nicely.  I argued nicely before and the same offenders are still doing the same snide insinuations that people who don't like the game are either bigoted or too stupid to understand the brilliance.  So I'm just here to start shit and get my account banned to escape the hellhole.

Normally I wouldn't hate on a game on a topic saying that the game wins the game of the year but you guys do fall for the slightest provocation so it really does look like religious fervor.

And I should say just as my account gets Thanos'd that there's a pretty large gulf between critics and audiences these days.  Critics hated Dave Chappelle and loved The Last Jedi.  Judging by the fact that the sales figures haven't been updated and game stores are falling over extra copies of the game, I honestly don't think people liked it as much as people here think they did.

You do know that baiting is also against VGC rules right?



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

Srassy said:
DonFerrari said:

You do know that baiting is also against VGC rules right?

I literally said I'm trying to get my account banned.

Yes I saw it. But not talking about you baiting. I talked on the "people reacting to provocation", by VGC rules the ones reacting aren't the wrong ones but the ones baiting reactions.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."