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Forums - Microsoft Discussion - Phil Spencer On Bethesda Deal, Series X/S Launch, And More

Angelus on 19 October 2020
PotentHerbs said:
Angelus said:

Well, if, over the course of the next 7 years or so, they don't manage to ship 2 games that they announced well over 2 years before this next gen even started, then that will be incredibly embarrassing on their part. 

I wouldn't say its embarrassing, its just the reality of game development nowadays, especially for ambitious open world titles.

Just look at Rockstar with GTAV & RDR2. 

I'm not sure that's a good comparison. For one, the obsession with detail, polish, refinement, etc is at Rockstar is at a completely different level to almost every other dev in the industry. Also, frankly, Rockstar seems pretty content these days to really lean into the cash cow that is GTA Online, and I feel like that has kinda had them dragging their heels this gen.

Bethesda should be pretty far along on Starfield at this point, and new IP does take a lot of extra time, as you're conceptualizing everything from scratch. Once that's shipped (which I expect to happen in the next year or two) and all hands are on deck for Elder Scrolls (which is already in pre-production at the VERY least), it shouldn't really take them longer than 4 years at the absolute max to get that done.



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sales2099 on 19 October 2020
DonFerrari said:
sales2099 said:

In the end I respect that he’s talkative. There is no Xbox radio silence on community concerns. And if he can’t say a direct answer, he knows exactly what he is allowed to say. 

By comparison I see you defending Jim Ryan for being openly misleading with “believing in generations” while official marketing conveniently leaving out platform availability when Spiderman MM and Horizon were announced. Nm they were silent for months in other topics like BC functionality and official teardown (when to expect). 

Point being ill personally defend Phil because his approach is better then being silent and ultimately letting your community down due to lack of transparency. He ain’t perfect but he’s the best kind of PR among the big 3. 

I know you like Phil.

Nope, didn't defend Jim, I said what I remembered he saying. Don't remember he promising all games made for PS5 would be exclusive or any timeframe, just saying he believes in gen. But let me check.

https://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2020-05-29-sonys-jim-ryan-its-time-to-give-fans-something-that-can-only-be-enjoyed-on-playstation-5

"We have always said that we believe in generations.We believe that when you go to all the trouble of creating a next-gen console, that it should include features and benefits that the previous generation does not include. And that, in our view, people should make games that can make the most of those features. We do believe in generations, and whether it's the DualSense controller, whether it's the 3D audio, whether it's the multiple ways that the SSD can be used... we are thinking that it is time to give the PlayStation community something new, something different, that can really only be enjoyed on PS5."

Please point out where does that say anything about any game (or all games) being exclusive to Playstation 5? Even more when we know for a fact that MLB will be releasing even for Switch and Xbox. If you can point to any interview where he said all games after PS5 release would be PS5 exclusives I'll gladly say he was lying.

On Sony being silent. They have talked very little this year. They have made their events but have rarely said anything outside of it, and it have been effective. So you may not like, but it is working.

And you associating talking more to being more transparent is funny since you are defending Phil distorting the reality to make himself look good as some form of transparency.

Seems to me with that Jim quote he is proud to offer something new with PS5 that is unique to the platform. After Phil’s quote in January that was about “cross gen for 2 years” he positioned himself as a alternate philosophy for gamers. 

Sure he didn’t say anything specifically, but it was a perfect positive PR storm he created and rode for months. Again I believe what sets the two people apart is transparency. Any misunderstanding on PSs part could have been addressed on the reveal trailers...or even a community manager posting a clarification. Something easy to do. 

You may enjoy the long stretches of silence followed by Sony hitting hard when they are good and ready, but it also leads to fans being disappointed when they hear games that they thought for months were taking full advantage of the hardware were actually being shared with 2013 hardware. I knew Halo Infinite was cross gen since 2018, that’s transparency. If Sony execs were more chatty, maybe that misunderstanding would have been avoided. 

Last edited by sales2099 - on 19 October 2020

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smroadkill15 on 19 October 2020
PotentHerbs said:
To be expected.

Not a big loss for me. The only games I bought from Zenimax this generation were Fallout 4 and Doom. Its not like Bethesda is going to be dropping Starfield and TES6 in the same generation lol.

Starfield may release in 2021 or 2022, and TES6 should be out by 2025. 



DonFerrari on 19 October 2020
sales2099 said:
DonFerrari said:

I know you like Phil.

Nope, didn't defend Jim, I said what I remembered he saying. Don't remember he promising all games made for PS5 would be exclusive or any timeframe, just saying he believes in gen. But let me check.

https://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2020-05-29-sonys-jim-ryan-its-time-to-give-fans-something-that-can-only-be-enjoyed-on-playstation-5

"We have always said that we believe in generations.We believe that when you go to all the trouble of creating a next-gen console, that it should include features and benefits that the previous generation does not include. And that, in our view, people should make games that can make the most of those features. We do believe in generations, and whether it's the DualSense controller, whether it's the 3D audio, whether it's the multiple ways that the SSD can be used... we are thinking that it is time to give the PlayStation community something new, something different, that can really only be enjoyed on PS5."

Please point out where does that say anything about any game (or all games) being exclusive to Playstation 5? Even more when we know for a fact that MLB will be releasing even for Switch and Xbox. If you can point to any interview where he said all games after PS5 release would be PS5 exclusives I'll gladly say he was lying.

On Sony being silent. They have talked very little this year. They have made their events but have rarely said anything outside of it, and it have been effective. So you may not like, but it is working.

And you associating talking more to being more transparent is funny since you are defending Phil distorting the reality to make himself look good as some form of transparency.

Seems to me with that Jim quote he is proud to offer something new with PS5 that is unique to the platform. After Phil’s quote in January that was about “cross gen for 2 years” he positioned himself as a alternate philosophy for gamers. 

Sure he didn’t say anything specifically, but it was a perfect positive PR storm he created and rode for months. Again I believe what sets the two people apart is transparency. Any misunderstanding on PSs part could have been addressed on the reveal trailers...or even a community manager posting a clarification. Something easy to do. 

You may enjoy the long stretches of silence followed by Sony hitting hard when they are good and ready, but it also leads to fans being disappointed when they hear games that they thought for months were taking full advantage of the hardware were actually being shared with 2013 hardware. I knew Halo Infinite was cross gen since 2018, that’s transparency. If Sony execs were more chatty, maybe that misunderstanding would have been avoided. 

Yes paragraph one is a valid rationalization that we already discussed. Phil intended to say all games would be crossgen (we won't make people buy a new console to play our games), while Jim is they want to explore what is possible only on PS5 (which in no way means all being exclusive).

Fans hype and are disappointed by their own expectations. Phil said X1 wouldn't hold out their games, still what happened with Halo? Yes that is lying to be a good guy.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

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Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

kirby007 on 19 October 2020

Fine lets do stupid consolewar shit since you are so set on it. , check ori on switch check gears on xsx scalability exists whether you deny it or not. Now 343 being sucky might be a valid point why they couldnt get it working.
This cherrypicking and grasping at straws is getting boring go contact rick and see if he found the cliff yet



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chakkra on 19 October 2020
DonFerrari said:
sales2099 said:

Seems to me with that Jim quote he is proud to offer something new with PS5 that is unique to the platform. After Phil’s quote in January that was about “cross gen for 2 years” he positioned himself as a alternate philosophy for gamers. 

Sure he didn’t say anything specifically, but it was a perfect positive PR storm he created and rode for months. Again I believe what sets the two people apart is transparency. Any misunderstanding on PSs part could have been addressed on the reveal trailers...or even a community manager posting a clarification. Something easy to do. 

You may enjoy the long stretches of silence followed by Sony hitting hard when they are good and ready, but it also leads to fans being disappointed when they hear games that they thought for months were taking full advantage of the hardware were actually being shared with 2013 hardware. I knew Halo Infinite was cross gen since 2018, that’s transparency. If Sony execs were more chatty, maybe that misunderstanding would have been avoided. 

Yes paragraph one is a valid rationalization that we already discussed. Phil intended to say all games would be crossgen (we won't make people buy a new console to play our games), while Jim is they want to explore what is possible only on PS5 (which in no way means all being exclusive).

Fans hype and are disappointed by their own expectations. Phil said X1 wouldn't hold out their games, still what happened with Halo? Yes that is lying to be a good guy.

Halo Infinite looked the way it looked because apparently 343i is not very good at handling graphics (although I actually liked it but whatever).
But this idea that 8th gen can hold back 9th gen games is one of the more bizarre things to me. More power will only give you more realistic graphics and theoretically better physics, and we have decades of history that proves it.

Having more power available did not magically make AC and HZD better than BOTW; heck, even with a lot less power available BOTW still showed better physics.
Having more power available did not magically make KZSF better than the previous ones.
Having more power available did not magically make Halo 5 better than the previous ones.
Having more power available did not magically make Far Cry 5 better than Far Cry 3.
Having more power available did not magically make Gran Turismo Sport better than the previous ones.

And I could write 10 more pages of comparisons here, but to summarize, more power will only give you better graphics and theoretically better physics; but all of that is up to the developer's skills in the end.



Mr Puggsly on 20 October 2020
chakkra said:
DonFerrari said:

Yes paragraph one is a valid rationalization that we already discussed. Phil intended to say all games would be crossgen (we won't make people buy a new console to play our games), while Jim is they want to explore what is possible only on PS5 (which in no way means all being exclusive).

Fans hype and are disappointed by their own expectations. Phil said X1 wouldn't hold out their games, still what happened with Halo? Yes that is lying to be a good guy.

Halo Infinite looked the way it looked because apparently 343i is not very good at handling graphics (although I actually liked it but whatever).
But this idea that 8th gen can hold back 9th gen games is one of the more bizarre things to me. More power will only give you more realistic graphics and theoretically better physics, and we have decades of history that proves it.

Having more power available did not magically make AC and HZD better than BOTW; heck, even with a lot less power available BOTW still showed better physics.
Having more power available did not magically make KZSF better than the previous ones.
Having more power available did not magically make Halo 5 better than the previous ones.
Having more power available did not magically make Far Cry 5 better than Far Cry 3.
Having more power available did not magically make Gran Turismo Sport better than the previous ones.

And I could write 10 more pages of comparisons here, but to summarize, more power will only give you better graphics and theoretically better physics; but all of that is up to the developer's skills in the end.

Agreed, good game design isn't necessarily about specs.

I'm hyped about next gen for practical reasons. Better performance, visuals and faster loading. But innovation is certainly possible even on current gen hardware.



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sales2099 on 20 October 2020
DonFerrari said:
sales2099 said:

Seems to me with that Jim quote he is proud to offer something new with PS5 that is unique to the platform. After Phil’s quote in January that was about “cross gen for 2 years” he positioned himself as a alternate philosophy for gamers. 

Sure he didn’t say anything specifically, but it was a perfect positive PR storm he created and rode for months. Again I believe what sets the two people apart is transparency. Any misunderstanding on PSs part could have been addressed on the reveal trailers...or even a community manager posting a clarification. Something easy to do. 

You may enjoy the long stretches of silence followed by Sony hitting hard when they are good and ready, but it also leads to fans being disappointed when they hear games that they thought for months were taking full advantage of the hardware were actually being shared with 2013 hardware. I knew Halo Infinite was cross gen since 2018, that’s transparency. If Sony execs were more chatty, maybe that misunderstanding would have been avoided. 

Yes paragraph one is a valid rationalization that we already discussed. Phil intended to say all games would be crossgen (we won't make people buy a new console to play our games), while Jim is they want to explore what is possible only on PS5 (which in no way means all being exclusive).

Fans hype and are disappointed by their own expectations. Phil said X1 wouldn't hold out their games, still what happened with Halo? Yes that is lying to be a good guy.

It wasn’t a select few who were let down, it was the majority of PS fans online that expected certain games to take full advantage. I stand by if Sony was just a little more chatty, you guys would have had realistic expectations right away. 

Imo I’d chalk up Halo Infinite to dev incompetence. 343 is just horrendous with deadlines. Halo 5 launched without basic features that took over a year to add. Halo Infinite had the gameplay down but lacked lighting, fidelity and texture polish that only time can fix.

Last edited by sales2099 - on 20 October 2020

Xbox: Best hardware, Game Pass best value, best BC, more 1st party genres and multiplayer titles. 

 

DonFerrari on 20 October 2020
sales2099 said:
DonFerrari said:

Yes paragraph one is a valid rationalization that we already discussed. Phil intended to say all games would be crossgen (we won't make people buy a new console to play our games), while Jim is they want to explore what is possible only on PS5 (which in no way means all being exclusive).

Fans hype and are disappointed by their own expectations. Phil said X1 wouldn't hold out their games, still what happened with Halo? Yes that is lying to be a good guy.

It wasn’t a select few who were let down, it was the majority of PS fans online that expected certain games to take full advantage. I stand by if Sony was just a little more chatty, you guys would have had realistic expectations right away. 

Imo I’d chalk up Halo Infinite to dev incompetence. 343 is just horrendous with deadlines. Halo 5 launched without basic features that took over a year to add. Halo Infinite had the gameplay down but lacked lighting, fidelity and texture polish that only time can fix.

You don't have any statistic to claim majority of the PS fans online were left down. But ok let's pretend you are right. So there you have it, majority of the fanbase criticized the Sony PR for not giving them what they wanted. Still for Phil you are covering his back and make apologies for his lies and calling it transparency.

Halo Infinite was in development for 5 years right? So you want to put the blame on deadlines? Precious. At least you moved on from "Halo was never a graphical showpiece".



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

sales2099 on 20 October 2020
DonFerrari said:
sales2099 said:

It wasn’t a select few who were let down, it was the majority of PS fans online that expected certain games to take full advantage. I stand by if Sony was just a little more chatty, you guys would have had realistic expectations right away. 

Imo I’d chalk up Halo Infinite to dev incompetence. 343 is just horrendous with deadlines. Halo 5 launched without basic features that took over a year to add. Halo Infinite had the gameplay down but lacked lighting, fidelity and texture polish that only time can fix.

You don't have any statistic to claim majority of the PS fans online were left down. But ok let's pretend you are right. So there you have it, majority of the fanbase criticized the Sony PR for not giving them what they wanted. Still for Phil you are covering his back and make apologies for his lies and calling it transparency.

Halo Infinite was in development for 5 years right? So you want to put the blame on deadlines? Precious. At least you moved on from "Halo was never a graphical showpiece".

Just what we see. Keeping in mind gamers who go on social media and gaming sites are a vocal minority. I just didn’t see a sizeable group (or any PS gamers) that thought Horizon 2 was cross gen material when it was announced is all I’m saying. 

Halo was sometimes a graphical showpiece but certainly not every game. It was never mandatory but nice to have when done (like Halo 4). What can I say, I’m pissed as any other fan that 5 years wasn’t enough time. Allegedly they had to scrap their initial game due to intense Halo 5 narrative backlash. 



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