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Forums - Microsoft Discussion - Phil Spencer On Bethesda Deal, Series X/S Launch, And More

DonFerrari said:
sales2099 said:

Seems to me with that Jim quote he is proud to offer something new with PS5 that is unique to the platform. After Phil’s quote in January that was about “cross gen for 2 years” he positioned himself as a alternate philosophy for gamers. 

Sure he didn’t say anything specifically, but it was a perfect positive PR storm he created and rode for months. Again I believe what sets the two people apart is transparency. Any misunderstanding on PSs part could have been addressed on the reveal trailers...or even a community manager posting a clarification. Something easy to do. 

You may enjoy the long stretches of silence followed by Sony hitting hard when they are good and ready, but it also leads to fans being disappointed when they hear games that they thought for months were taking full advantage of the hardware were actually being shared with 2013 hardware. I knew Halo Infinite was cross gen since 2018, that’s transparency. If Sony execs were more chatty, maybe that misunderstanding would have been avoided. 

Yes paragraph one is a valid rationalization that we already discussed. Phil intended to say all games would be crossgen (we won't make people buy a new console to play our games), while Jim is they want to explore what is possible only on PS5 (which in no way means all being exclusive).

Fans hype and are disappointed by their own expectations. Phil said X1 wouldn't hold out their games, still what happened with Halo? Yes that is lying to be a good guy.

It wasn’t a select few who were let down, it was the majority of PS fans online that expected certain games to take full advantage. I stand by if Sony was just a little more chatty, you guys would have had realistic expectations right away. 

Imo I’d chalk up Halo Infinite to dev incompetence. 343 is just horrendous with deadlines. Halo 5 launched without basic features that took over a year to add. Halo Infinite had the gameplay down but lacked lighting, fidelity and texture polish that only time can fix.

Last edited by sales2099 - on 20 October 2020

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sales2099 said:
DonFerrari said:

Yes paragraph one is a valid rationalization that we already discussed. Phil intended to say all games would be crossgen (we won't make people buy a new console to play our games), while Jim is they want to explore what is possible only on PS5 (which in no way means all being exclusive).

Fans hype and are disappointed by their own expectations. Phil said X1 wouldn't hold out their games, still what happened with Halo? Yes that is lying to be a good guy.

It wasn’t a select few who were let down, it was the majority of PS fans online that expected certain games to take full advantage. I stand by if Sony was just a little more chatty, you guys would have had realistic expectations right away. 

Imo I’d chalk up Halo Infinite to dev incompetence. 343 is just horrendous with deadlines. Halo 5 launched without basic features that took over a year to add. Halo Infinite had the gameplay down but lacked lighting, fidelity and texture polish that only time can fix.

You don't have any statistic to claim majority of the PS fans online were left down. But ok let's pretend you are right. So there you have it, majority of the fanbase criticized the Sony PR for not giving them what they wanted. Still for Phil you are covering his back and make apologies for his lies and calling it transparency.

Halo Infinite was in development for 5 years right? So you want to put the blame on deadlines? Precious. At least you moved on from "Halo was never a graphical showpiece".



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

DonFerrari said:
sales2099 said:

It wasn’t a select few who were let down, it was the majority of PS fans online that expected certain games to take full advantage. I stand by if Sony was just a little more chatty, you guys would have had realistic expectations right away. 

Imo I’d chalk up Halo Infinite to dev incompetence. 343 is just horrendous with deadlines. Halo 5 launched without basic features that took over a year to add. Halo Infinite had the gameplay down but lacked lighting, fidelity and texture polish that only time can fix.

You don't have any statistic to claim majority of the PS fans online were left down. But ok let's pretend you are right. So there you have it, majority of the fanbase criticized the Sony PR for not giving them what they wanted. Still for Phil you are covering his back and make apologies for his lies and calling it transparency.

Halo Infinite was in development for 5 years right? So you want to put the blame on deadlines? Precious. At least you moved on from "Halo was never a graphical showpiece".

Just what we see. Keeping in mind gamers who go on social media and gaming sites are a vocal minority. I just didn’t see a sizeable group (or any PS gamers) that thought Horizon 2 was cross gen material when it was announced is all I’m saying. 

Halo was sometimes a graphical showpiece but certainly not every game. It was never mandatory but nice to have when done (like Halo 4). What can I say, I’m pissed as any other fan that 5 years wasn’t enough time. Allegedly they had to scrap their initial game due to intense Halo 5 narrative backlash. 



sales2099 said:
DonFerrari said:

You don't have any statistic to claim majority of the PS fans online were left down. But ok let's pretend you are right. So there you have it, majority of the fanbase criticized the Sony PR for not giving them what they wanted. Still for Phil you are covering his back and make apologies for his lies and calling it transparency.

Halo Infinite was in development for 5 years right? So you want to put the blame on deadlines? Precious. At least you moved on from "Halo was never a graphical showpiece".

Just what we see. Keeping in mind gamers who go on social media and gaming sites are a vocal minority. I just didn’t see a sizeable group (or any PS gamers) that thought Horizon 2 was cross gen material when it was announced is all I’m saying. 

Halo was sometimes a graphical showpiece but certainly not every game. It was never mandatory but nice to have when done (like Halo 4). What can I say, I’m pissed as any other fan that 5 years wasn’t enough time. Allegedly they had to scrap their initial game due to intense Halo 5 narrative backlash. 

Yes from what we saw on VGC most if not all thought that Horizon 2 looked next gen, that doesn't mean majority of all ps fans were disappointed when it was revealed to be crossgen (and still before the pre-orders were made available anyway). Just not sure what does that have to do with Jim Ryan interview, where he didn't promise all games would be nextgen, he just said he believe in generations and that their games will use the power and features of PS5. If you want to be really defensive of Ryan you can say that even Sackboy will have features only PS5 support (like the cards, trophies giving you prizes, the controller inputs differences, etc), but I wouldn't go there because he didn't even talk about exclusive to next gen at all.

Well on the Halo Infinite I will say that now they have the time to improve it a lot and perhaps even make the two gens different versions to push more.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

DonFerrari said:
sales2099 said:

Just what we see. Keeping in mind gamers who go on social media and gaming sites are a vocal minority. I just didn’t see a sizeable group (or any PS gamers) that thought Horizon 2 was cross gen material when it was announced is all I’m saying. 

Halo was sometimes a graphical showpiece but certainly not every game. It was never mandatory but nice to have when done (like Halo 4). What can I say, I’m pissed as any other fan that 5 years wasn’t enough time. Allegedly they had to scrap their initial game due to intense Halo 5 narrative backlash. 

Yes from what we saw on VGC most if not all thought that Horizon 2 looked next gen, that doesn't mean majority of all ps fans were disappointed when it was revealed to be crossgen (and still before the pre-orders were made available anyway). Just not sure what does that have to do with Jim Ryan interview, where he didn't promise all games would be nextgen, he just said he believe in generations and that their games will use the power and features of PS5. If you want to be really defensive of Ryan you can say that even Sackboy will have features only PS5 support (like the cards, trophies giving you prizes, the controller inputs differences, etc), but I wouldn't go there because he didn't even talk about exclusive to next gen at all.

Well on the Halo Infinite I will say that now they have the time to improve it a lot and perhaps even make the two gens different versions to push more.

Guess if I had to tie all this together I’ll say if Sony was more transparent you’d know cross gen availability at the reveal trailers or a community update on Social media. That way people wouldn’t interpret Jim’s comments the wrong way. Phil Spencer is chatty, maybe a little too chatty, but the good thing is that the fans aren’t left bickering and speculating for months on end regarding various topics. To each their own. 



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sales2099 said:
DonFerrari said:

Yes from what we saw on VGC most if not all thought that Horizon 2 looked next gen, that doesn't mean majority of all ps fans were disappointed when it was revealed to be crossgen (and still before the pre-orders were made available anyway). Just not sure what does that have to do with Jim Ryan interview, where he didn't promise all games would be nextgen, he just said he believe in generations and that their games will use the power and features of PS5. If you want to be really defensive of Ryan you can say that even Sackboy will have features only PS5 support (like the cards, trophies giving you prizes, the controller inputs differences, etc), but I wouldn't go there because he didn't even talk about exclusive to next gen at all.

Well on the Halo Infinite I will say that now they have the time to improve it a lot and perhaps even make the two gens different versions to push more.

Guess if I had to tie all this together I’ll say if Sony was more transparent you’d know cross gen availability at the reveal trailers or a community update on Social media. That way people wouldn’t interpret Jim’s comments the wrong way. Phil Spencer is chatty, maybe a little too chatty, but the good thing is that the fans aren’t left bickering and speculating for months on end regarding various topics. To each their own. 

Sure, it is valid to complain that Sony didn't share enough or wasn't very transparent. (I don't mind and considering their pre-orders are all sold out very fast whenever one opens up makes it look like it don't really affects Sony). And yes It is good to be hearing news about your console of choice all the time.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

chakkra said:
DonFerrari said:

Yes paragraph one is a valid rationalization that we already discussed. Phil intended to say all games would be crossgen (we won't make people buy a new console to play our games), while Jim is they want to explore what is possible only on PS5 (which in no way means all being exclusive).

Fans hype and are disappointed by their own expectations. Phil said X1 wouldn't hold out their games, still what happened with Halo? Yes that is lying to be a good guy.

Halo Infinite looked the way it looked because apparently 343i is not very good at handling graphics (although I actually liked it but whatever).
But this idea that 8th gen can hold back 9th gen games is one of the more bizarre things to me. More power will only give you more realistic graphics and theoretically better physics, and we have decades of history that proves it.

Halo Infinite had some really really high-quality assets.

343i has proven they are really good with graphics, Halo 4 looked absolutely fantastic, one of the best looking games for the entire 7th gen outside of what the PC was delivering.
And Halo 5 looked "ok" for a earlier base Xbox One game that operated at 60fps, especially with some of those draw distances, it didn't age well though because the dynamic effects on that game took a toll on that terrible hardware and not everything ran at 60fps, many texture animations were 15-30fps which looked jarring, but you need to give up something when running an Xbox One game at 60fps, just the way life is on that low-end hardware.

The issue with Halo Infinite was entirely down to that terrible lighting pipeline which made everything look extremely flat, which was sad, because their technology demonstrations before that which showcased what the slipspace engine was capable of was actually really good on that front.

Either way, they are likely overhauling their lighting engine now, so I will reserve judgement to see what improvements they bring forth.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--