Otter said:
Cobretti2 said:
The way I look at it is, if you love your job you don't see it as a job. If it is so much fun, it don't matter how many hours you spending on it as you are mentally stimulated and not watching the clock. It sounds like some of these developers only did the studies in this field because the pay is good. That is the wrong attitude to have and will burn you out in long run no matter if you doing overtime or not overtime. Every jobs has its ups and downs but the ups should outweigh the downs when you enjoy the work you are doing.
As I said for most of the development cycle are people really giving it it their 100% 5 days a week? They still gt paid for that time at their desk.
This game is due out in what 7 to 8 weeks? That means the crunch period is essentially and extra 7 to 8 days of work. Is this really that bad considering the last three years or so of development they highly likely did not work to 100% of their potential every day? You can put in 7-8 extra days at the end of a project and be proud to do so that it will be a much better finished product. They are even getting paid for it and hardly going to kill their life style for this short period of time.
I know you say you shouldn't compare to other industries, but why not? As the old saying goes Grass is not always greener on the outside. Considering they are in Poland, this is probably one of the much better companies and industries to work for. If you don't like it quit, go find a job that is less stressful than working for CD Projekt in Poland (doubt there be many).
Overall I am indifferent to crunch and I think people these days like to whinge about everything. As a human race we have become a bunch of whingers even about the smallest things in life, where as in the past most of us just got on with it (even 10 years ago it wasn't this bad, now people whinge their life sucks cause they can't get a hair cut during covid restriction,is your life going to end if you don't get a hair cut?).
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Everything you said is baffling. I'm a self employed developer and often work 7 days a week on my project. Even though I am passionate about what I do, I get burn out, my body also doesn't care about my passion and being restricted to a desk so frequently is unhealthy. Its throws off my work/life balance and compromises my physical and mental health. I'm actively trying to find more efficient ways to work but unlike CD projekt Red my survival is dependant on getting this game out as quick as possible. For them a December release is not going to make the game any less successful or cause them to go bankrupt. What my passion might drive me to do =/= what is healthy or what an employer should encourage.
A month of being overworked is not trivial, its not 7 days of extra work, its a month and a half where they will mostly likely be deprived of rest. If the CD respects the 9-5 work hours then that isn't so bad, but anyone in the industry will tell you its most likely 9-9, 12 hour work days on top of the added weekend hours.
"Is this really that bad considering the last three years or so of development they highly likely did not work to 100% of their potential every day?" Literally no one works 100% efficiency all the time and that is not what your wage is valued on. What I will say though is that you have zero idea about the hours they've been putting in their job, even when not working to 100% potential people still often put in overtime outside of crunch. Its the norm. And release day isn't the only deadline they work to. They have dozens of internal deadlines on a yearly basis that will cause people to work overtime.
Comparing this to complaining about a haircut is idiotic. If you want to talk about people not being able deal with Covid restrictions designed to benefit the health of the population, discuss that in another thread. What people are doing here is pushing for a better, healthier work environment and management of projects. Literally with your logic we would still be in the stone ages, because people "just got on with it". Meanwhile kids will essentially be without one their parents for over a month, over a video game which could simply come out a handful of weeks later at the cost of a tiny bit of the dozens of millions in profit they will end up making. Priorities dude.
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What is so baffling? When people have their dream job they should be grateful as most the time it really isn't stressful. We all have to put in over time sometimes. If you are on salary wage then that is the norm. No extra paid for overtime. Hell I am doing over time now at its just before midnight on a Friday (taking a break to read and reply on the forum now).
I don't know why 7 extra days is a big deal because simply put, it could be worst. For example deployed for military duty, then you are away 6-12 months from your kids, at least these devs get to see their kids. For me if you value that extra day (even if its a short period you miss out on), you are in the wrong job. With prestigious jobs like working for one of the best devs scarifies are made sometimes.
Hell I work a full time job (9-5) and then I run another company (6-12), that I hope will grow one day to maybe be my only job. Throw in the over time I do and I am going to bed between 2-3 am each night. I haven't been on a holiday in 6 years, and cash out my annual leave so I can continue to work and fund my other company. I have chosen to make sacrifices, no one asked me to do it, I don't want anyone feeling sorry for me, and guess what I don't complain about it as that is the path I chose.
The same goes for this scenario, people chose to work for a AAA dev they know what they getting into. Compared to other jobs on offer in Poland they are way ahead and those who are complaining should just suck it up and get on with it or good luck finding a better job. TBH how many staff members are actually complain about having to work those extra 7 days? Or is it just outraged games calling CD Projekt the big bad wolf? Did they ask for a knight in shining armor to save them? or we all assuming they need saving because "crunch" is bad? Perhaps they don't feel the crunch? perhaps they love the crunch? I know it may be hard to believe but some people are wired that way to work hard hence why they took on that job to begin with.
We have also lost something that our parent and grandparents had, gratitude for the things we have in life. We spend far too much time complaining about everything. As an example, a lot of graduates (not all) these days think they are entitled to start on 6 figure salaries (well in my country) straight out of Uni instead of being grateful they got hired. With that attitude, when reality hits that no you don't start there you work your way up to there, they just complain all the time why am I being paid so little, everyone around me is making more money and I have to work more hours and make less.
Now I am not saying we should go all the way back to stone ages (as you put it) where people worked 2-3 jobs to make ends meet. Just be grateful that in the grand scheme of things, most of us only have to work one job to make ends meet. We already work way less hours than previous generations and get paid better for it anyway, so a few over time days isn't going to end your life especially when you get paid well for it.
So yes I am saying once again suck it up, otherwise where does it stop? 3 day working weeks with 7 figure salaries being the norm? Then what is next? get paid not to work?