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Forums - Politics Discussion - NYT: Long-Concealed Records Show Trump’s Chronic Losses and Years of Tax Avoidance

Dulfite said:
gergroy said:

Honestly, when seeking a public office position, there is an expectation of lack of privacy, especially for president.  While releasing tax returns isn’t a law, it is a long held precedent that trump broke.  He really should have released them as they do contain information that the public has a right to.  Releasing them would have been the “ethical” thing to do in the first place.  If he valued the privacy of that information so much, then he shouldn’t have run for president.

A tradition that had only existed for 22% of our nation's history. We survived "corruption threats" for 180 years without needing tax returns, yet some in this thread make it sound like we can't survive anymore like our ancestors. We are okay violating the rights of a man, just to get information that is not at all necessary (tax returns are political ammunition and nothing more). Information we didn't need for 78% of our countries history.

It’s not the 1800’s anymore man.  Believe it or not, the world is very different today.  More specifically, finances and the way we manage finances is very different.  We live in a world where information is available at the touch of a button, and not relayed by word of mouth or paper.  I know, it’s crazy.  

more important though, tax information is more than political ammunition.  It can, and some cases does, present possible national security concerns.  If somebody has the office and powers of the president, but has large amounts of financial obligation, or dealings in shady businesses, they would be in position to possibly be forced into using their office to alleviate some of these issues, possible at the expense of our national defense.  

While I do find it rather reprehensible that somebody that fought to cut taxes for the rich didn’t really pay any taxes before, that isn’t why I would want to see his tax returns.  I would want to make sure the candidate isn’t vulnerable to manipulation due to debts, business dealings, or foreign influence.  All of which can be derived from tax returns.  



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Dulfite said:
gergroy said:

Honestly, when seeking a public office position, there is an expectation of lack of privacy, especially for president.  While releasing tax returns isn’t a law, it is a long held precedent that trump broke.  He really should have released them as they do contain information that the public has a right to.  Releasing them would have been the “ethical” thing to do in the first place.  If he valued the privacy of that information so much, then he shouldn’t have run for president.

A tradition that had only existed for 22% of our nation's history. We survived "corruption threats" for 180 years without needing tax returns, yet some in this thread make it sound like we can't survive anymore like our ancestors. We are okay violating the rights of a man, just to get information that is not at all necessary (tax returns are political ammunition and nothing more). Information we didn't need for 78% of our countries history.

Segregation of black and white people (whether through slavery or other social/systemic discrimination) and women not being allowed to vote are also institutions that were in place for the bulk of the nation's history as well. I'm not sure that using the argument that something existing for a long time makes it a good idea. I personally don't see how being more informed about potential conflicts of interest and/or political leverage a person might have over them while they hold public office makes us any worse off.



I'm Canadian. I've paid attention to US Politics since 2008. Donald Trump is the worst US President ever, PERIOD.



OTBWY said:
FormerlyTeamSilent13 said:

Nothing in the article said Trump does anything illegal. I’m not a libertarian, but avoiding paying taxes to our corrupt deep state government is something I commend. Almost anyone who would be libertarian or for small government probably wouldn’t care either. If Trump uses loopholes that are legal what exactly is the problem? What makes you think these democrat career politicians that amassed millions of dollars during their tenure don’t do the same or worse. This is such a non issue and the best you can say is hur dur cult because you actually don’t have anything meaningful to say. Crook is what the democratic party represents. Stealing from generational wealth and middle America and giving to criminals, illegal aliens, and new immigrants disproportionately many of whom hate us and our country. 

"Nothing in the article said Trump does anything illegal."

He's very highly likely doing tax evasion and its now pretty clear he's taking bribes from foreign entities. Very illegal.

Wrong. You have only proven your confirmation bias by adding your own interpretation and putting that above the facts. 

"but avoiding paying taxes to our corrupt deep state government is something I commend."

There is no deep state. Stop being afraid of ghosts.

The point I was making can be made simpler without using the term deep state. Alternatively I could say our taxes are mismanaged at an extreme degree that does not benefit the taxpayers in a proportion for what is put into it by those same taxpayers. That being said the deep state is a real thing. Russia. Russia. Russia. Except Trump was never prosecuted by Mueller over Russia because they found nothing. Right now we are dealing with massive voter fraud attempts at levels we have never seen before. See: Project Veritas. Look at the Republicans that are coming out against Trump. The literal swamp like McCain's wife, ex-CIA agents, neoconservatives, let alone all of the Obama leftovers. I'm worried about real issues like this, but I feel confident Trump will fight no matter what is thrown at him. No one should be upset about this tax news because it's ridiculously overblown compared to real things going on.

"What makes you think these democrat career politicians that amassed millions of dollars during their tenure don’t do the same or worse."

Whataboutism argument. Trump is the president and in power.

Many democrats are in power right now via congress, courts, and executive branch including the White House (some of which are Obama leftovers). Corrupt government officials are still a problem to this country no matter what level they are at so Trump being president wouldn't dissolve that. Hunter Biden's scandals are a far more concrete example of corruption than this flimsy tax return data. Considering Trump is running against Joe Biden and Hunter's actions were not isolated away from Joe it's not a whataboutism, but actual relevant counterpoints.

"This is such a non issue and the best you can say is hur dur cult because you actually don’t have anything meaningful to say."

Yet meaningful enough to make a reply.

I replied because saying we are a cult is a blatant gaslight. This is overblowing something which might not be true and proves no illegal activity. The initial comment was not meaningful, but I shut down disruptive noise.


"Stealing from generational wealth and middle America and giving to criminals, illegal aliens, and new immigrants disproportionately many of whom hate us and our country."

Xenophobia.

Where's the argument? First I'm not afraid to be called xenophobic because I'm mixed raced. More importantly the term xenophobia only exists as a subversive ad hominem for social marxists to psyop people against thinking for themselves. Nothing I said was xenophobic. It was true. Maybe try having an argument instead of resorting to social marxist gaslight attempts. It shows you are weak. Try debating stronger.

Truth is I have worked directly with legal and illegal immigrants for many years and looked into the leftist talking points and their studies regarding the subject. In personal experience I've seen some migrants get paid under the table so they will still receive welfare and other benefits (while getting the maximum amount on the books masking the illegality of the situation). Meaning they get some amount of money on the books so they qualify for free healthcare or tax refunds, but getting anything over that amount in cash. I've also seen some co-workers brazen enough to brag about crimes they got away with including drunk driving or reckless behavior (one instance was a young co-worker about 17/18 who thought it was funny he was riding bike across lanes against oncoming traffic and getting out of the way last minute). These are crimes where they put other people's lives at risk and they are proud they get off the hook because of guilt tripping a judge or cop about their family or keeping their job. This is how they explained they got out of it. Removing my personal anecdotes from the situation we can look at bogus claims from journalists. We are told there is only maybe 10, 12, 15 million illegal aliens. That number has been around and used by the left for decades. They want us to believe the number has never gone up. Truth is there has to be something like 25-50 million illegal aliens in addition to countless anchor babies abusing a loophole which was never designed for that purpose. When it comes to the money they add to the economy they take almost all of it back themselves through welfare and a lot of it even leaves the country. The American workers they supplant are not benefiting in any way, but instead seeing lower wages due to artificial competition. The only American people who see any benefit from these workers are the business owners and the corporations. Trump has made improvements on this front. A lot of the problem has been a lack of enforcement of laws which already exist specifically by corrupt government officials namely the democrats. 

We have corrupt attorney generals at state levels dropping charges on hundreds of criminals who committed violent acts of rioting including repeat offenders, antifa terrorists, and the violent parts of black lives matter. The left represent the pressures from the top and bottom against the middle, against Americans who did things the right way for generations. Crooks at the top and crooks at the bottom who then use their group privileges and drag other African Americans into their BLM cause through grifting. We should care about how our government spends its money. We should also care that we have too much illegal and legal immigration. After all we have very racist policies such as affirmative action and racial quotas which supplant equal opportunity. Universities and colleges are discriminating on race despite massive federal funding. This has to stop. Democrats want to look the other way and only some in the Trump presidency even have the balls to fight it.


So aside from being a typical maga reactionary, do you have any coherent argument?

The argument is that this whole story is a non-issue and that calling people cultists over that fact is just intellectual dishonesty. Even if this tax data is real there's nothing here that is illegal. However, there are real issues Americans should care about and debate. We have real problems with taxes. Maybe even some that we could agree on when it comes to corporations. Distractions and social marxist propaganda doesn't change the facts. We have to get our country back as Americans because right now we are in crisis. 



Legend. Income tax is theft.



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Locknuts said:
Legend. Income tax is theft.

Are you mocking that thought or supporting it?



Dulfite said:
RolStoppable said:

That's because you are American.

The republicans are about dividing the country, sowing fear and dismissing all facts that contradict their view of the world. The three key ingredients of far-right politics. Another good indicator are comedians; for normal politicians they have to embellish statements to create a punchline, but for far-right politicians they merely have to quote them.

Are you honestly suggesting only one political party in America divides the country? lol okay.

Yes, that's what I am suggesting. Oppression of white supremacists doesn't count as dividing the country.



Legend11 correctly predicted that GTA IV (360+PS3) would outsell SSBB. I was wrong.

A Biased Review Reloaded / Open Your Eyes / Switch Shipments

FormerlyTeamSilent13 said:
OTBWY said:

Snip

A lot of talk that can be said with less. I don't want to wade through shit to get to the nugget.

Wrong. You have only proven your confirmation bias by adding your own interpretation and putting that above the facts. 

Nope. I mean, aside from him showing that he has no moral compass and a fraud, much like his cult followers have a moral compass that's ossified and or simple lack one, it's pretty clear that he's been doing a lot of fraudulent shit to enrich himself and pay as little tax as possible by noting stuff as expenses that aren't. He is doing tax evasion. Aside from that, he takes money from foreign entities. And the great part about this is, there still stuff coming in. It's not even the end of it lol.

The point I was making can be made simpler without using the term deep state. Alternatively I could say our taxes are mismanaged at an extreme degree that does not benefit the taxpayers in a proportion for what is put into it by those same taxpayers. That being said the deep state is a real thing. Russia. Russia. Russia. Except Trump was never prosecuted by Mueller over Russia because they found nothing. Right now we are dealing with massive voter fraud attempts at levels we have never seen before. See: Project Veritas. Look at the Republicans that are coming out against Trump. The literal swamp like McCain's wife, ex-CIA agents, neoconservatives, let alone all of the Obama leftovers. I'm worried about real issues like this, but I feel confident Trump will fight no matter what is thrown at him. No one should be upset about this tax news because it's ridiculously overblown compared to real things going on.

You used the word deep state, and now you step back from it. Now that's weak. 

Also, they DID say that Russia interfered, you can't simply wish that away. There was a final report that concluded 3 years of investigation from a commitee that: Found that the Russian government had engaged in an "extensive campaign" to sabotage the election in favor of Trump, which included assistance from some members of Trump's own advisers.

Project Veritas is a right wing hatchet job bullshit operation by a creepy douchebag named O'Keefe that doctors and edits his footage.

Anyway, you do believe in a deep state. And that's believing in ghosts. You believe in ghosts.

Many democrats are in power right now via congress, courts, and executive branch including the White House (some of which are Obama leftovers). Corrupt government officials are still a problem to this country no matter what level they are at so Trump being president wouldn't dissolve that. Hunter Biden's scandals are a far more concrete example of corruption than this flimsy tax return data. Considering Trump is running against Joe Biden and Hunter's actions were not isolated away from Joe it's not a whataboutism, but actual relevant counterpoints.

This is a side step. Trump is in power and this is about him and his tax evasion. Try to keep your mental gymnastics focused on Trump please.

I replied because saying we are a cult is a blatant gaslight. This is overblowing something which might not be true and proves no illegal activity. The initial comment was not meaningful, but I shut down disruptive noise.

Nah, you replied cause I insulted you.

Where's the argument? First I'm not afraid to be called xenophobic because I'm mixed raced. More importantly the term xenophobia only exists as a subversive ad hominem for social marxists to psyop people against thinking for themselves. Nothing I said was xenophobic. It was true. Maybe try having an argument instead of resorting to social marxist gaslight attempts. It shows you are weak. Try debating stronger.

Mixed race people can't be racist? Hell, you could be part Irish or Italian. I don't care. You support a xenophobe and that kind of makes it easy to conclude it as such. Easy.

Also *social maxist gaslight attempts* *psyop* Fucking kek.

Truth is I have worked directly with legal and illegal immigrants for many years and looked into the leftist talking points and their studies regarding the subject. In personal experience I've seen some migrants get paid under the table so they will still receive welfare and other benefits (while getting the maximum amount on the books masking the illegality of the situation). Meaning they get some amount of money on the books so they qualify for free healthcare or tax refunds, but getting anything over that amount in cash. I've also seen some co-workers brazen enough to brag about crimes they got away with including drunk driving or reckless behavior (one instance was a young co-worker about 17/18 who thought it was funny he was riding bike across lanes against oncoming traffic and getting out of the way last minute). These are crimes where they put other people's lives at risk and they are proud they get off the hook because of guilt tripping a judge or cop about their family or keeping their job. This is how they explained they got out of it. Removing my personal anecdotes from the situation we can look at bogus claims from journalists. We are told there is only maybe 10, 12, 15 million illegal aliens. That number has been around and used by the left for decades. They want us to believe the number has never gone up. Truth is there has to be something like 25-50 million illegal aliens in addition to countless anchor babies abusing a loophole which was never designed for that purpose. When it comes to the money they add to the economy they take almost all of it back themselves through welfare and a lot of it even leaves the country. The American workers they supplant are not benefiting in any way, but instead seeing lower wages due to artificial competition. The only American people who see any benefit from these workers are the business owners and the corporations. Trump has made improvements on this front. A lot of the problem has been a lack of enforcement of laws which already exist specifically by corrupt government officials namely the democrats. 

I mean, aside from your personal experience meaning shit, most of this anti immigration stance can be chopped down to xenophobia and great replacement conspiracy. That's how it works with right wingers, they hide their power levels. Trust me, the further he tries to argue this point the more it will come to this. That always happens with reactionary proto-fashies.

We have corrupt attorney generals at state levels dropping charges on hundreds of criminals who committed violent acts of rioting including repeat offenders, antifa terrorists, and the violent parts of black lives matter. The left represent the pressures from the top and bottom against the middle, against Americans who did things the right way for generations. Crooks at the top and crooks at the bottom who then use their group privileges and drag other African Americans into their BLM cause through grifting. We should care about how our government spends its money. We should also care that we have too much illegal and legal immigration. After all we have very racist policies such as affirmative action and racial quotas which supplant equal opportunity. Universities and colleges are discriminating on race despite massive federal funding. This has to stop. Democrats want to look the other way and only some in the Trump presidency even have the balls to fight it.

Right wing terrorism is the number one terrorist threat in America. They kill the most Americans. By far. How many deaths did Antifa (which is not even an org) and BLM cause? What do you have to say about that?

The argument is that this whole story is a non-issue and that calling people cultists over that fact is just intellectual dishonesty. Even if this tax data is real there's nothing here that is illegal. However, there are real issues Americans should care about and debate. We have real problems with taxes. Maybe even some that we could agree on when it comes to corporations. Distractions and social marxist propaganda doesn't change the facts. We have to get our country back as Americans because right now we are in crisis. 

Yep. You are part of that cult. 



Valdney said:
No body in their right mind cares if a man is keeping more of his own money through legal tax deductions. Nothing to see here. Now onto the next “scandal”.

Isn't this the reason why he is being audited.  The IRS wants to know if he actually is doing it legally.  The president is already being investigated for Tax fraud and a few other money crimes and those investigations are waiting for him to leave office.  If you are going to do dirt, probably is a smart thing not to put a bullseye on your back by becoming President, piss off the city you live in and give every news outlet a reason to get into your business.



KingJames said:
I'm Canadian. I've paid attention to US Politics since 2008. Donald Trump is the worst US President ever, PERIOD.

You're not wrong.

"Donald Trump is rated the worst president in American history by a group of 170 political science scholars."*

Even ranks as one of the worst presidents by his own right-leaning political scientists. Mind you, this was pre-COVID so he would rank even worse now...were there any lower to go.

"But even among the Republican scholars, Trump ranked very unfavorably. Respondents who identified as Republicans or conservatives ranked Trump 40th out of 44 presidents. Self-described Democrats and Independents both ranked Trump dead last."*

*https://www.ibtimes.com/trump-worst-president-us-history-political-scientists-claim-2765338