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Forums - Microsoft Discussion - Microsoft Has Put Themselves Back In The Game!

sales2099 said:
Runa216 said:

Okay, anyone genuinely trying to say that "Sony focuses on 3rd person single-player action-adventure" as a negative is NOT a voice deserving to be heard. "Action-Adventure" is the most wide definition of ALL the genres in gaming by a wide, WIDE margin, third person is a perspective, not a gameplay style, and while 'singleplayer' means it's very story-focused, that's really not restrictive at all. Third-person Single-player action-adventure games encompass something like 75% of all mainstream games. That is the opposite of 'racing' or 'shooter' as niches. 

Ratchet & Clank is NOTHING like The Last of Us.

Bloodborne is NOTHING like inFamous or Spider-Man.

The only thing linking Ghost of Tsushima with Horizon: Zero Dawn is the open world.

Halo is closer to Gears of War than any of Sony's 'third-person action-adventure single-player' games are to each other. Gritty, Futuristic sci fi shooters with grizzled men as their protagonist fighting aliens is a very specific genre. Really, the only thing that separates them is their first vs third person perspective and story details. Hell, the two closest in Sony's lineup are Uncharted and The Last of us because they're both by the same developer and both are sci-fi and remarkably high quality. One's an adventure in he vein of Tomb Raider or Indiana Jones and the other more a stealth horror, they're just considered so alike because the writing and presentation quality are both among the best in the genre. 

The mental gymnastics on this post. Jesus. 

You took it too literally. I gave a general guideline for Sony’s top exclusives. They technically all fall within it. That doesn’t mean you can’t craft different experiences from it. 

By comparison let’s look at 2020 Xbox: Ori (metroidvania), Gears Tactics (turn based strategy), Minecraft Dungeons (dungeon crawler), Bleeding Edge (multiplayer brawler), Battletoads (beat em up), Tell Me Why (interactive story), Grounded (coop survival), Flight SIM (Simulator), Wasteland 3 (turn based RPG), Age of Empires 3 DE (RTS). Now with Bethesda Xbox has FPS and WRPG on lock. THIS is genre diversity. 

Sorry no mental gymnastics here. By comparison PS top exclusives are more then similar when put next to each other. I’m not wrong in saying Sony could do with a little more 1st party multiplayer and genres in general. Like PS3, now that had genre diversity in their exclusives! 

To bring it all home that’s why Xbox has an edge next gen imo. They do vastly different genres which appeal to more diverse gamer groups. Better multiplayer, like on a whole other level. Games like Sea of Thieves being more popular with age only bode well for say Halo Infinte MP, which if done right will be played long after 2021 exclusives from the competition are beaten and never played again. 

Really? You honestly think that MLB: The Show, Killzone, Resistance, or Gran Turismo 'technically' fall under the same banner of 'story-driven, third-person, action-adventure'? Get outta here with this bad logic. 

As for the rest of your list, keep in mind we're talking about exclusives that are actually good and well liked. Half of those entries you gave are either multiplatform (no, not just on PC), or got shit reviews. Plus, you know, the fact that I actually had to look these games up just to know what the hell Tell Me Why was at all shows that those games aren't really all that popular. 

And if you look at all of these games, there's still very little variety, if you wanna go the 'my console has variety and yours doesn't' logic bend, because all of those games on your list are super western. Even the RPGs are western. I don't think western RPGs are bad (Again, Skyrim is one of my all-time favourite games), but the more you examine Xbox's games, almost all of them are exclusively for a western (Read: US) audience. A Flight Simulator and a beat-em-up might very well be vastly different games and attract very different crowds, but I don't see many japanese gamers giving a shit about them. 

The point is, you can't just stupidly say 'All of Sony's exclusives' are the same because they're third person action-adventure games, it's just a VERY bad point and utilizes terrible logic. If you think Xbox's output is adequately diverse, that's fine. Good for you. The reality is that Sony's lineup is far, FAR more diverse, and that's why it wins worldwide. You can't come from the console who exclusively caters to western audiences then turn around and claim SONY lacks diversity in their exclusives. 

If you somehow don't like their very wide variety of games, that's fine. Some people only like 3-4 genres. but again, don't act like they lack diversity when defending Microsoft. It's not even a fight. IT's not even a competition. It's a point that really shouldn't even be up for debate. Unfortunately I know you'll argue anyway, but know you're unequivocally wrong and it's rather silly to fight. 



My Console Library:

PS5, Switch, XSX

PS4, PS3, PS2, PS1, WiiU, Wii, GCN, N64 SNES, XBO, 360

3DS, DS, GBA, Vita, PSP, Android

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it saddens me your denial has turned into anger, but thats ok its a valid coping mechanism.
you might not think this is a turn around, but its a damned big change regardless



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Runa216 said:
Goatseye said:
“ Halo is closer to Gears of War than any of Sony's 'third-person action-adventure single-player' games are to each other. ”
🤣 Is this for real?
Is that because you can aim through a sniper rifle in Gears of War in first person view? Lol

Are you honestly trying to argue that player perspective matters more in a game's look, feel, and style than...you know, the gameplay, the style, the look, the feel, and the sounds? The only real thing separating the two games in terms of genre and feel is the FPS vs TPS perspective shift and the individual story beats. They're both about human/earth space militaries fighting aliens with gameplay that pretty much exclusively consists of shooting the bad guys. They're both sci-fi shooters, they share more in common with one another than The Last of Us and Ratchet & Clank do with each other. 

I can't tell if you're being serious or purposely dense here. 

I mean.. this alone should be your first clue, especially as someone who just ranted about how there is a lot of variety within games that fall under the same genres within Sony's stable of IPs. Being a TPS comes with a bunch of different gameplay mechanics and philosophies that FPS games don't have, if you're not aware of those differences I'm not sure if it's worth anyone's effort to explain them to you because you seem indignant at any attempt to explain your ignorance on the subject. Even as someone who has a minimal experience with the Gears series I can tell you the game's "look and feel" is markedly different as well. The enemy design is different, the character design is different, the settings are different. You trying so hard to lump the two together only exposes your immense ignorance to those who actually know what they're talking about. You can't possibly expect anyone to take your arguments seriously when you approach them with as much blatant bad faith and ignorance as you've been doing. 



Goatseye said:
PotentHerbs said:

You grouped most Sony games in one style/genre without breaking down the differences in their core mechanics, which was my point of contention with your post, and others like it. Because with that logic you can group together most of Microsoft games as first person shooters since they have the same perspective. 

If Elder Scrolls and Halo are different from one another, because of their gameplay loops, why is this ignored for a WRPG like Horizon, a TPS like Uncharted, or an action/adventure title like God of War?

I didn’t group Sony games together, even though I think they’re not that varied based on genres and style of gameplay.

I’d choose different games to compare. Comparing an Arena FPS to a Dungeons and Dragons inspired RPG is a sacrilege.


I wouldn’t call Horizon: ZD an RPG. It has elements of an RPG but it is at its core, an Action Adventure; with a set character and no build variety, set story with no meaningful choices that impacts it, etc... comparing it to let’s say Wasteland or Fallout: New Vegas, you can clearly see the difference. 

Uncharted does involve a lot of shooting but it’s not a TPS like Gears is. It’s actually a sh*tty shooter and a better cinematic adventure game. The gameplay is serviceable for the campaign but not great for multiplayer.

You got God of War right, a hack and slash action adventure game.

The issue here is hypocrisy. My original post was straight up meant to show the absurdity of Sales2099's point about how all sony's IP is the same when there's more diversity in the PS4's lineup than there is on Xbox, since there's more in common between Halo and Gears (And now Doom, now that I think about it) than there is between Horizon Zero Dawn, Ghost of Tsushima, and God of War. All three of those games have open or semi-open worlds with melee mechanics and are played in a third person perspective with light RPG elements...but there's more diversity in look, feel, art direction, style, gameplay, and story than there is between Halo, Doom, and Gears. 

Personally, I DO think that Halo, Doom, and Gears are each unique enough to warrant their own franchises, but you can't deny that all three of them are shooters where killin' the bad guys with guns is the primary gameplay loop all done by grizzled, manly men in iconic sci-fi armour killing nonhumans (aliens and demons). the fact that Gears is third person is less impactful to the look and feel of the game than all those other points. 

The only way Xbots can seem to devalue the quality and quantity of Sony's output is to simply pretend that all of Sony's games are the same by focusing on one similar feature shared between many of their games...despite the fact that these features are arguably the most widespread and diverse of things in all of the medium. 



My Console Library:

PS5, Switch, XSX

PS4, PS3, PS2, PS1, WiiU, Wii, GCN, N64 SNES, XBO, 360

3DS, DS, GBA, Vita, PSP, Android

Runa216 said:
Goatseye said:
“ Halo is closer to Gears of War than any of Sony's 'third-person action-adventure single-player' games are to each other. ”
🤣 Is this for real?
Is that because you can aim through a sniper rifle in Gears of War in first person view? Lol

Are you honestly trying to argue that player perspective matters more in a game's look, feel, and style than...you know, the gameplay, the style, the look, the feel, and the sounds? The only real thing separating the two games in terms of genre and feel is the FPS vs TPS perspective shift and the individual story beats. They're both about human/earth space militaries fighting aliens with gameplay that pretty much exclusively consists of shooting the bad guys. They're both sci-fi shooters, they share more in common with one another than The Last of Us and Ratchet & Clank do with each other. 

I can't tell if you're being serious or purposely dense here. 

Well I mean it's a very obvious and ridiculous effort to pigeon hole Sony's first party as being homogenous because more traditional means and avenues of criticism currently don't work. 



 

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Goatseye said:
PotentHerbs said:

You grouped most Sony games in one style/genre without breaking down the differences in their core mechanics, which was my point of contention with your post, and others like it. Because with that logic you can group together most of Microsoft games as first person shooters since they have the same perspective. 

If Elder Scrolls and Halo are different from one another, because of their gameplay loops, why is this ignored for a WRPG like Horizon, a TPS like Uncharted, or an action/adventure title like God of War?

I didn’t group Sony games together, even though I think they’re not that varied based on genres and style of gameplay.

I’d choose different games to compare. Comparing an Arena FPS to a Dungeons and Dragons inspired RPG is a sacrilege.


I wouldn’t call Horizon: ZD an RPG. It has elements of an RPG but it is at its core, an Action Adventure; with a set character and no build variety, set story with no meaningful choices that impacts it, etc... comparing it to let’s say Wasteland or Fallout: New Vegas, you can clearly see the difference. 

Uncharted does involve a lot of shooting but it’s not a TPS like Gears is. It’s actually a sh*tty shooter and a better cinematic adventure game. The gameplay is serviceable for the campaign but not great for multiplayer.

You got God of War right, a hack and slash action adventure game.

Your post is disingenuous. There is a ton of difference in pacing, game design, level structure, even combat, between Uncharted and Horizon, similar to the differences between Halo and Fallout, that would classify these games in different genres. 

Horizon might not have a variety of different builds, but neither does Persona, DQ or Final Fantasy, and most would consider those RPG's. Also, HZD doesn't have many meaningful choices, but that doesn't mean it doesn't have that at all (IE. how various side quests impact the last mission). There is a ton of traditional RPG elements in Horizon like side quests, open world design, branching dialogue, skill trees, etc. It might lack a few RPG elements, but that doesn't make it an action adventure game, even if there is some overlap with the genre (which is inevitable for most AA/AAA titles).

Uncharted isn't considered a TPS because you think it has bad shooting mechanics? You not liking its gameplay doesn't change the majority of its gameplay loop. If I didn't like the TPS elements, or the platforming, or even the driving, I'm not going to say that I think Uncharted is more of a puzzle game, since the former comprises of the majority of gameplay. 



Raven said:
Runa216 said:

Are you honestly trying to argue that player perspective matters more in a game's look, feel, and style than...you know, the gameplay, the style, the look, the feel, and the sounds? The only real thing separating the two games in terms of genre and feel is the FPS vs TPS perspective shift and the individual story beats. They're both about human/earth space militaries fighting aliens with gameplay that pretty much exclusively consists of shooting the bad guys. They're both sci-fi shooters, they share more in common with one another than The Last of Us and Ratchet & Clank do with each other. 

I can't tell if you're being serious or purposely dense here. 

I mean.. this alone should be your first clue, especially as someone who just ranted about how there is a lot of variety within games that fall under the same genres within Sony's stable of IPs. Being a TPS comes with a bunch of different gameplay mechanics and philosophies that FPS games don't have, if you're not aware of those differences I'm not sure if it's worth anyone's effort to explain them to you because you seem indignant at any attempt to explain your ignorance on the subject. Even as someone who has a minimal experience with the Gears series I can tell you the game's "look and feel" is markedly different as well. The enemy design is different, the character design is different, the settings are different. You trying so hard to lump the two together only exposes your immense ignorance to those who actually know what they're talking about. You can't possibly expect anyone to take your arguments seriously when you approach them with as much blatant bad faith and ignorance as you've been doing. 

-------------> * The Point

---> You

Holy shit, dude, that wasn't even remotely the point I was trying to get across. I mean, I am sitting here thinking of ways to elaborate further but nope, my first post really was sufficient enough so I'll just restate the same thing: There's more in common with Halo and Gears than there is with any two Sony franchises/IPs. I'm not saying those games aren't diverse or unique enough to be their own games - they are - and I'm not saying Microsoft has absolutely no variety, I'm saying and have been saying all day that Sony has more diversity in their lineup of 'Third-person, single-player, action-adventure games' than your reductive reasoning would indicate. 

Stop being intentionally obtuse. Not everything is binary, you know. This isn't an argument of 'Sony has diversity and Microsoft doesn't', it's that 'sony has MORE diversity than Microsoft, but the only way to claim otherwise is to comically misrepresent their games by reducing them all to the same wide blanket genre'. 

Nuance, people. Context. This is why arguing is so frustrating. Just bad logic and shitty fallacies EVERYWHERE. 



My Console Library:

PS5, Switch, XSX

PS4, PS3, PS2, PS1, WiiU, Wii, GCN, N64 SNES, XBO, 360

3DS, DS, GBA, Vita, PSP, Android

Wow Microsoft just came out and said no Bethesda games will be coming out on Playstation going forward and Elder Scrolls VI will be Xbox Exclusive. Thats a game changer for sure. And Bethesda’s past library are all coming to game pass.



Runa216 said:
Raven said:

I mean.. this alone should be your first clue, especially as someone who just ranted about how there is a lot of variety within games that fall under the same genres within Sony's stable of IPs. Being a TPS comes with a bunch of different gameplay mechanics and philosophies that FPS games don't have, if you're not aware of those differences I'm not sure if it's worth anyone's effort to explain them to you because you seem indignant at any attempt to explain your ignorance on the subject. Even as someone who has a minimal experience with the Gears series I can tell you the game's "look and feel" is markedly different as well. The enemy design is different, the character design is different, the settings are different. You trying so hard to lump the two together only exposes your immense ignorance to those who actually know what they're talking about. You can't possibly expect anyone to take your arguments seriously when you approach them with as much blatant bad faith and ignorance as you've been doing. 

-------------> * The Point

---> You

Holy shit, dude, that wasn't even remotely the point I was trying to get across. I mean, I am sitting here thinking of ways to elaborate further but nope, my first post really was sufficient enough so I'll just restate the same thing: There's more in common with Halo and Gears than there is with any two Sony franchises/IPs. I'm not saying those games aren't diverse or unique enough to be their own games - they are - and I'm not saying Microsoft has absolutely no variety, I'm saying and have been saying all day that Sony has more diversity in their lineup of 'Third-person, single-player, action-adventure games' than your reductive reasoning would indicate. 

Stop being intentionally obtuse. Not everything is binary, you know. This isn't an argument of 'Sony has diversity and Microsoft doesn't', it's that 'sony has MORE diversity than Microsoft, but the only way to claim otherwise is to comically misrepresent their games by reducing them all to the same wide blanket genre'. 

Nuance, people. Context. This is why arguing is so frustrating. Just bad logic and shitty fallacies EVERYWHERE. 

Yup, the 'ol "I'm smart, you're dumb because I said so" response. My point stands pretty well I'd say. It's not worth discussing anything with you when you bring that attitude to the table, so I'm honestly surprised people repeatedly try to do so despite your complete insistence that nothing you say might not be as ironclad and objective as you suggest. If you can't even understand the full scale of Microsoft's lineup because you don't even know what it is, then there's no possible way for you to accurately describe it's variety.



https://www.vgchartz.com/article/445582/michael-pachter-microsofts-bethesda-acquisition-will-shift-a-few-million-from-playstation-to-xbox/