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Forums - Movies Discussion - Best Star Trek series

 

I think the best is...

Original series 7 11.11%
 
The Next Generation 32 50.79%
 
Deep Space Nine 8 12.70%
 
Voyager 10 15.87%
 
Enterprise 3 4.76%
 
Discovery 2 3.17%
 
Picard 1 1.59%
 
Total:63
Captain_Yuri said:

Why does Netflix only have HD versions of TNG and Enterprise? Both DS9 and Voyager look potato quality and are effectively unwatchable for me because of how low the resolution is. Luckily I did watch DS9 a while ago.

I did finish watching Enterprise recently. Really picks up mid-way through season 2. Almost feel sad it didn't get the full 7 seasons.

I rewatched Voyager on Netflix last year and I honestly didn't even notice, quality seemed fine to me. Then again, I still happily watch movies on DVD, so I'm not a stickler for high resolutions.

Maybe it's an issue of source material; if the footage was shot on standard definition video there might not be a whole lot they can do to increase its quality.



Bet with Liquidlaser: I say PS5 and Xbox Series will sell more than 56 million combined by the end of 2023.

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curl-6 said:
Dante9 said:
We've come to the point where the latest shows have nothing to do with Star Trek but their names. They are just platforms to spew SJW politics, and the showrunners even say as much. Maybe some day we'll get actual Star Trek again, but I'm not holding my breath.

Star Trek has always been about social justice.

The original show had Black, Asian, and Russian bridge officers and the first inter-racial kiss on television back in the 1960s.

Deep Space Nine had a Black captain with a female first officer, Voyager had a female captain with a native American first officer.

Minority representation and progressive politics have been an integral part of the franchise's DNA for over half a century.

While it is true that Star Trek has always been progressive; the socialist Utopia of the United Federation of Planets, the long history of minority representation, the first onscreen interracial kiss in TOS, the first on-screen female-female kiss in DS9; from what I've seen these latest shows from CBS have taken things to all new extremes. I'm told the Social Justice agenda of Discovery in particular doesn't feel natural at all, but rather quite ham-fisted and in-your-face. Compare Discovery's social justice agenda to The Orville's, most classic Star Trek fans enjoy The Orville and are ok with the whole male-male Bortus-Klyden relationship and the subtle trans rights message of Moclan society in general. On the other hand most classic Star Trek fans seem to hate the social justice agenda of Discovery from what I've seen. 

I know personally, as a right wing Star Trek fan, I never really found any of the social justice agenda in TOS through ENT offensive, with only a handful of exceptions like the episode of ENT where Phlox decided not to help save an entire species from extinction because there was an oppressed minority species on the same planet whose evolutionary course was being held back by the dominant species (known to be the most controversial ENT episode, the producers, writers, and Phlox actor received many angry letters and saw many angry forum posts from fans about that episode). However, some of the clips I've seen of Discovery and it's agenda are just pure cringe to me. 

Last edited by shikamaru317 - on 20 November 2020

Captain_Yuri said:

Why does Netflix only have HD versions of TNG and Enterprise?

I can't speak to Voyager, but Netflix doesn't have HD version of DS9 because there is no HD version of DS9.
Both it and Voyager released at a time when NTSC/PAL was as good as it got for broadcast video.
TNG fanbase is large enough to justify remastering it at HD, but that never happened for DS9.

Notably, all of DS9's live scenes were shot in 35mm, which is more than enough for full 4K quality if rescanned.
(live shots include a good amount of model ships, although later in series there is transition to more CGI usage there)
The official problem is that no original files for CGI were kept, only the 480i NTSC (+PAL?) tapes at low resolution.
Although AFAIK most of CGI is for stuff like Odo "morphing" where IMHO lack of high resolution wouldn't be noticeable.

Somebody actually made demo videos using "AI" programs to upscale NTSC to 4K, that showed good results. (@Youtube)
Although if original 35mm could be rescanned, the job of such program would be much easier (only CGI/compositing).
Regardless of specifics, I think it is mostly a matter of cost of remaster not seen as "worth it" for size of DS9 fan base,
although I believe that rationale was originally based on idea that all CGI would have to be fully redone from scratch,
as well as re-compositing everything from new 4K scans of 35m film, whereas as using "AI upscaling" either on the
NTSC tapes directly, or combined with new 4K scans of 35mm film (for higher quality with less need for AI upscaling),
would be substantially easier and less costly, so who knows it MAY someday be done if there is audience for DS9.

EDIT: side-by-side unofficial 4K upscale comparison https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FtP4Hv665Yg

Last edited by mutantsushi - on 20 November 2020

curl-6 said:
Captain_Yuri said:

Why does Netflix only have HD versions of TNG and Enterprise? Both DS9 and Voyager look potato quality and are effectively unwatchable for me because of how low the resolution is. Luckily I did watch DS9 a while ago.

I did finish watching Enterprise recently. Really picks up mid-way through season 2. Almost feel sad it didn't get the full 7 seasons.

I rewatched Voyager on Netflix last year and I honestly didn't even notice, quality seemed fine to me. Then again, I still happily watch movies on DVD, so I'm not a stickler for high resolutions.

Maybe it's an issue of source material; if the footage was shot on standard definition video there might not be a whole lot they can do to increase its quality.

I usually watch it with my eyes closed lol. That engine hum noise is the perfect sound to fall asleep with. (To get woken up by the end credits orchestra)

ST original series is kinda jarring in HD. It looks much more fake and the CGI in between scenes don't match the rest. The set design was never meant to be shown in that much detail.



Captain_Yuri said:

Why does Netflix only have HD versions of TNG and Enterprise? Both DS9 and Voyager look potato quality and are effectively unwatchable for me because of how low the resolution is. Luckily I did watch DS9 a while ago.

I did finish watching Enterprise recently. Really picks up mid-way through season 2. Almost feel sad it didn't get the full 7 seasons.

Enterprise was the first Star Trek show to be recorded in HD. TNG got an HD remaster for a blu-ray release. However, the TNG blu-rays didn't sell as well as they were hoping, so they decided not to give DS9 and Voyager the same HD remaster treatment because it would cost more than they would make from the blu-ray sales, which was a huge shame, because they badly need to be remastered. 

Edit: Reading into it more, remastering Voyager and DS9 would be even more expensive than remastering TNG was, because they began to use CGI for some special effects in Voyager and DS9, and that CGI was produced in low resolution, simply uprezing that CGI would make it into an ugly, undetailed mess, so they would need to pay to redo the CGI effects for any episodes that used CGI effects, in addition to the cost of actually remastering the live-action portions. So in other words, remastering DS9 and Voyager would be more expensive than remastering TNG, and in return they would get less blu-ray sales, since DS9 and Voyager weren't as popular as TNG. 

Last edited by shikamaru317 - on 20 November 2020

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TNG , Classic one ( the good movies) and the rest ( hate Enterprise and DS9).

After seven episodes, Discovery seems ok. And the last villain is very good. 



CONTENT REMOVED.

User was moderated for this post. ~ Pemalite.

Last edited by Pemalite - on 20 November 2020

shikamaru317 said:
curl-6 said:
Dante9 said:
We've come to the point where the latest shows have nothing to do with Star Trek but their names. They are just platforms to spew SJW politics, and the showrunners even say as much. Maybe some day we'll get actual Star Trek again, but I'm not holding my breath.

Star Trek has always been about social justice.

The original show had Black, Asian, and Russian bridge officers and the first inter-racial kiss on television back in the 1960s.

Deep Space Nine had a Black captain with a female first officer, Voyager had a female captain with a native American first officer.

Minority representation and progressive politics have been an integral part of the franchise's DNA for over half a century.

While it is true that Star Trek has always been progressive; the socialist Utopia of the United Federation of Planets, the long history of minority representation, the first onscreen interracial kiss in TOS, the first on-screen female-female kiss in DS9; from what I've seen these latest shows from CBS have taken things to all new extremes. I'm told the Social Justice agenda of Discovery in particular doesn't feel natural at all, but rather quite ham-fisted and in-your-face. Compare Discovery's social justice agenda to The Orville's, most classic Star Trek fans enjoy The Orville and are ok with the whole male-male Bortus-Klyden relationship and the subtle trans rights message of Moclan society in general. On the other hand most classic Star Trek fans seem to hate the social justice agenda of Discovery from what I've seen. 

I know personally, as a right wing Star Trek fan, I never really found any of the social justice agenda in TOS through ENT offensive, with only a handful of exceptions like the episode of ENT where Phlox decided not to help save an entire species from extinction because there was an oppressed minority species on the same planet whose evolutionary course was being held back by the dominant species (known to be the most controversial ENT episode, the producers, writers, and Phlox actor received many angry letters and saw many angry forum posts from fans about that episode). However, some of the clips I've seen of Discovery and it's agenda are just pure cringe to me. 

While Discovery can definitley be a little cringey at times, for me that comes from jokes that don't quite land or attempts to be quirky, I didn't find it any more politically overt than previous series of Star Trek.

And yeah that episode of Enterprise didn't sit right with me either, letting a whole sentient species die while a cure is on hand. Came across as very morally questionable.



Bet with Liquidlaser: I say PS5 and Xbox Series will sell more than 56 million combined by the end of 2023.

Well, just finished Season 3 of Discovery, and it was a mixed bag. (SPOILERS)

Spoiler!
Jumping 900 years in the future gave them a lot of leeway to no longer be bound by established canon and they did take advantage of this to extent, and year 3200 technology was cool with stuff like programmable matter and ships with holographic hulls, but the ultimate explanation for "The Burn" felt very contrived and pseudoscientific even by Trek standards, and the finale was a bit of a fizzle.

I give it a 6/10 overall.



Bet with Liquidlaser: I say PS5 and Xbox Series will sell more than 56 million combined by the end of 2023.

I just finished Discovery's third season as well and... oh boy. Minor spoilers for Discovery below.

So I'll just say I quite liked Discovery's first two seasons. It's been a while since I watched them, and I know they also had their issues, but looking down the list of episodes on IMDb I can see I gave most of them 6-8/10.

Now, the third season. The first two episodes were great and very promising (an 8 then a 6 out of 10), then it just descends into a pit of terrible writing, plot holes, stuff just happening without even a tangential scientific basis, constant crying from the crew, whispered dialogue, and motivational speeches crossed with a mawkish sentimentality. On a fucking science vessel. Just awful.

And the character trades this season were atrocious:

-We gained Book (the only good new character. Well, him and the cat), Adira (who has negative charisma, but more dedicated screentime in two episodes than most of the bridge crew has had in three years), and Vance (meh).
-We lost Nhan (meh) and Georgiou (good character, albeit given too many cheesy lines).
-We're probably losing Saru (they've got to be kidding, he solo carried this shit season).
-Oh and we've gained number one Tilly. LOL. An Ensign with no self-confidence, no training for command, who is both mentally and physically completely unfit to be in a position of responsibility on board a star ship. Promoted to second in command. Makes total sense, nice writing guys :)

I ended up giving half the episodes 2 or 3 out of 10, which is just abysmal, especially for sci fi. I can look past a lot of issues for sci fi, because it's my favourite genre, especially space-based stuff. But by the end of this season I just want it cancelled, especially now it looks like the best character by far (Saru) is being written out and we're going to get Star Trek: Burnham on steroids in season 4. I actually want a Star Trek show to be cancelled, that's how bad it's gotten. I never, ever thought I'd say that.

The only saving graces of season three were the first two episodes and the Mirror Universe ones in the middle, which were a welcome relief. But they just made me want a Mirror Universe Star Trek series with new writers, instead of more Discovery.