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Forums - Microsoft Discussion - Xbox Series X/S expandable storage is expensive....

 

Will you be buying this storage?

Yes 10 20.83%
 
No 38 79.17%
 
Total:48

It's to be expected, proprietary product always has a problem with price due to lack of option. Meanwhile non proprietary product will always has advantage for price due to many option and competition. Microsoft solution for Xbox storage is convenient with the sacrifice on cost and Sony solution is need a little bit worked but more cheaper. In the end gaming in general is expensives more so in the near future.



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eva01beserk said:
Barkley said:

S/X both have SSD's. PS5 SSD is almost twice the speed but the difference shouldn't be too pronounced. The Xbox storage is roughly 40 times faster than the previous generation consoles, so a difference of two times between Xbox/PS5 is going to seem minor by comparison.

Old HDD Consoles = ~120mb/s
Xbox Series S/X = 2400mb/s (raw), 4800mb/s (compressed)
PS5 = 4500mb/s (raw), 7500mb/s (compressed)

You should probably watch the road to ps5 conference. Theres so much you got wrong. 

And by so much you mean 5500mb/s raw and 9000mb/s compressed for ps5.

Thanks for correcting me with these numbers you definitley provided, you were very helpful. lmao.



Eh. They ought to get cheaper over time. I've about filled up my One X's HDD and have had to uninstall games I haven't played in a while in favor of new installations or re-installations, so I'm used to it. It costs time, but it doesn't cost money.



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Barkley said:
eva01beserk said:

You should probably watch the road to ps5 conference. Theres so much you got wrong. 

And by so much you mean 5500mb/s raw and 9000mb/s compressed for ps5.

Thanks for correcting me with these numbers you definitley provided, you were very helpful. lmao.

Na you missed much more. Its why I said wach the presentation cuz I wont be able to explain as well but Ill give it a shot.

Cerny said there where more hardware implementations than just raw ssd speed. Like the 4 extra PCIE4.0 lanes straight from the apu to the SSD, allowing it to skip the ram, the xbox has no such things. having 12 chanel memory vs the xbox 8 or 4(we still dont know, its most likely 8). The soc dedicted to handle data wich the ps5 has an equivalent of 9 ryzen cores while the xbox has a 4 cores equivalent. Cerny mentioned that there are other bottlenecks that limit data transfer speed so hdd's and sdd's dont run at their full speed all the time and the ps5 has hardware and software for that. The xbox only has sotware.

Again, Im not the best to tell you what this all translates to, but its much more than the 5.5 vs 2.4 raw speed. And I think we saw  a bit of this on the start up comparisons they have both made, the xbox had games start in like 4x the speed of the previous gen wich was like 12s vs 54s, while the ps5 was instant almost. under 2 sec wich was just the button presses and the fade to black between inmages. it was insane. But again, thouse where diferent games we might need to wait untill the same games are compared to really see.



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eva01beserk said:
Barkley said:

And by so much you mean 5500mb/s raw and 9000mb/s compressed for ps5.

Thanks for correcting me with these numbers you definitley provided, you were very helpful. lmao.

Na you missed much more. Its why I said wach the presentation cuz I wont be able to explain as well but Ill give it a shot.

Cerny said there where more hardware implementations than just raw ssd speed. Like the 4 extra PCIE4.0 lanes straight from the apu to the SSD, allowing it to skip the ram, the xbox has no such things. having 12 chanel memory vs the xbox 8 or 4(we still dont know, its most likely 8). The soc dedicted to handle data wich the ps5 has an equivalent of 9 ryzen cores while the xbox has a 4 cores equivalent. Cerny mentioned that there are other bottlenecks that limit data transfer speed so hdd's and sdd's dont run at their full speed all the time and the ps5 has hardware and software for that. The xbox only has sotware.

Again, Im not the best to tell you what this all translates to, but its much more than the 5.5 vs 2.4 raw speed. And I think we saw  a bit of this on the start up comparisons they have both made, the xbox had games start in like 4x the speed of the previous gen wich was like 12s vs 54s, while the ps5 was instant almost. under 2 sec wich was just the button presses and the fade to black between inmages. it was insane. But again, thouse where diferent games we might need to wait untill the same games are compared to really see.

Most of the things you are mentioning here directly tie into what gives us the raw/compressed figures. 12 channel... so the raw data speed of PS5 is much higher than XSX.... 9 ryzen vs 4 equivalent, which is why the compressed figures on PS5 are so much higher...

This is just breaking down why the PS5 figures are higher, it's not something separate.



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Pemalite said:
smroadkill15 said:
About what I expected. I'm just going to keep using my 5TB HDD and transfer games in and out. There will never be a time I'm playing 1TB worth of games at one time.

I'm the same. But I do want everything installed... Because if I am going to spend 8-12 hours or more fighting a fire, cutting someone out of a vehicle, scaling down a cliff... And I come home and intend to relax, the last thing I even remotely want to do is wait hours more installing and updating a video game or stuffing around with game transfers.

I would ideally need around 16-20 terabytes of storage to last me the entire generation I think.

Getting a 1TB drive to expand your XSX in the UK is £29 cheaper than just buying an XSS. I'd rather have the 2 consoles aha. 

Definitely much better grabbing yourself an external drive, I doubt Microsoft is going to make this option cheaper any time soon even though SSD's get cheaper all the time.



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Barkley said:
eva01beserk said:

Na you missed much more. Its why I said wach the presentation cuz I wont be able to explain as well but Ill give it a shot.

Cerny said there where more hardware implementations than just raw ssd speed. Like the 4 extra PCIE4.0 lanes straight from the apu to the SSD, allowing it to skip the ram, the xbox has no such things. having 12 chanel memory vs the xbox 8 or 4(we still dont know, its most likely 8). The soc dedicted to handle data wich the ps5 has an equivalent of 9 ryzen cores while the xbox has a 4 cores equivalent. Cerny mentioned that there are other bottlenecks that limit data transfer speed so hdd's and sdd's dont run at their full speed all the time and the ps5 has hardware and software for that. The xbox only has sotware.

Again, Im not the best to tell you what this all translates to, but its much more than the 5.5 vs 2.4 raw speed. And I think we saw  a bit of this on the start up comparisons they have both made, the xbox had games start in like 4x the speed of the previous gen wich was like 12s vs 54s, while the ps5 was instant almost. under 2 sec wich was just the button presses and the fade to black between inmages. it was insane. But again, thouse where diferent games we might need to wait untill the same games are compared to really see.

Most of the things you are mentioning here directly tie into what gives us the raw/compressed figures. 12 channel... so the raw data speed of PS5 is much higher than XSX.... 9 ryzen vs 4 equivalent, which is why the compressed figures on PS5 are so much higher...

This is just breaking down why the PS5 figures are higher, it's not something separate.

No you oversimplifying it and omiting specs. Like not even mentioning the 4 PCIE4.0 laned with direct acces from the apu to the ssd. The PS% is suposed to stream data directly from the SSD and from ram at the same time while also suposed to use the ssd as ram and some are speculating that the ps5 can run the OS and other background task bypasssing the ram cmpletly and reserving all 16gb for graphics. Remains to be seenn though its all rumors and speculations.

The 12 chanel vs 8 or 4 channels ssd is another thing. While yes each chanel is a factor the overall speed, each chanel has a limited data cap wich directly afects tranfers. as data is split between each chanel, but if data is on the same chanel in goes in order so one has to wait for the other and in case that data is sensitive it need to waait for it and stops the transfer of the other lane. Thats one of the reasons storage usually dosent transfer data as the top speed advertise. Having 12 chanels means that there is less chance for that to happen and has the the ssd working more at top speed.

Yes the ryzen equivalent is more to do with how much more work needs to be done. AS far as im aware. 

This guy explains it very simple and more in depth. ignore the click baity title of the video. he barely mentioned that. 



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smroadkill15 said:
Pemalite said:

I'm the same. But I do want everything installed... Because if I am going to spend 8-12 hours or more fighting a fire, cutting someone out of a vehicle, scaling down a cliff... And I come home and intend to relax, the last thing I even remotely want to do is wait hours more installing and updating a video game or stuffing around with game transfers.

I would ideally need around 16-20 terabytes of storage to last me the entire generation I think.

Damn that is a shit ton of storage, but I get the, everything installed part. I filled up 95% of mine before I realized I needed to start deleting games. Now I manage my storage and delete stuff if I haven't played it in awhile. 

Btw, thank for what you do. Where do you fight fires at? 

Definitely is allot... And ironically need more! I think I may keep the Series X as a Series X only gaming device and use my Xbox One X for Xbox One and older titles, not sure yet.

Based in South Australia, but have deployed to the United States and Europe a few times... And obviously assist wherever needed across Australia, plus do vertical rescue, marine rescue, road crash rescue, confined space, rescue from heights, hazmat and all the fun stuff.
Although deploying is out of the question during the COVID era, can't even go interstate, let alone overseas.

Been a few times where I have come home covered in someone elses blood... And the only thing you want at that point is shower, food and video games.

eva01beserk said:

Na you missed much more. Its why I said wach the presentation cuz I wont be able to explain as well but Ill give it a shot.

Let's cut through some of the bullshit here.

eva01beserk said:

Like the 4 extra PCIE4.0 lanes straight from the apu to the SSD


* The Playstation 5 has 4x PCI-E 4.0 lanes to the SSD. Not 8. It's identical to the Xbox Series X on this front.

eva01beserk said:

allowing it to skip the ram, the xbox has no such things.

* The Xbox Series X SSD can bypass Ram and stream data direct from SSD to the APU as well.

eva01beserk said:

having 12 chanel memory vs the xbox 8 or 4(we still dont know, its most likely 8).

* The memory channel count is ultimately redundant, it's just a silly marketing point and you fell for it. - You have two ways to you can increase bandwidth, faster memory chips or more memory chips. - Sony took the "more memory chips" route to solving the bandwidth problem.

eva01beserk said:

The soc dedicted to handle data wich the ps5 has an equivalent of 9 ryzen cores while the xbox has a 4 cores equivalent.

Absolute rubbish.
The Xbox Series X has hardware accellerated compression/decompression.

No. The fixed function blocks that aid this are *not* equivalent to a Ryzen CPU core... They are fixed function, not flexible x86 processing cores.

eva01beserk said:

Cerny mentioned that there are other bottlenecks that limit data transfer speed so hdd's and sdd's dont run at their full speed all the time and the ps5 has hardware and software for that. The xbox only has sotware.

There are certainly a ton of bottlenecks that can limit data transfer rates such as scheduling for example.

I would advise you not to "hang onto" every single utter word that Cerny murmurs... And there is a good reason for that. - Cerny is a paid employee of Sony and thus he has a conflict of interesting in inflating, supporting and big-noting his company and the products he is trying to sell.


Same goes for Phil Spencer and whoever is Nintendo's equivalent.


And no. Xbox doesn't only "have software". - The Xbox series X, like the Playstation 5 features hardware accelerated decompression/compression, which is also aided by software.
The companies might "brand" their approaches differently, but they share very similar concepts fundamentally, even if Sony's definitely has the performance edge.

eva01beserk said:

but its much more than the 5.5 vs 2.4 raw speed.

That is exactly what the difference is.

eva01beserk said:

And I think we saw  a bit of this on the start up comparisons they have both made, the xbox had games start in like 4x the speed of the previous gen wich was like 12s vs 54s, while the ps5 was instant almost. under 2 sec wich was just the button presses and the fade to black between inmages. it was insane. But again, thouse where diferent games we might need to wait untill the same games are compared to really see.

The Xbox may be doing other tasks in the background, there are far to many variables like different operating systems, api's and so forth for one.
Undoubtedly the Playstation 5 has the bandwidth edge on it's storage and that will translate to load times and other nuanced differences.

However, the SSD is still dog-awfully slow compared to Ram.

ArchangelMadzz said:
Pemalite said:

I'm the same. But I do want everything installed... Because if I am going to spend 8-12 hours or more fighting a fire, cutting someone out of a vehicle, scaling down a cliff... And I come home and intend to relax, the last thing I even remotely want to do is wait hours more installing and updating a video game or stuffing around with game transfers.

I would ideally need around 16-20 terabytes of storage to last me the entire generation I think.

Getting a 1TB drive to expand your XSX in the UK is £29 cheaper than just buying an XSS. I'd rather have the 2 consoles aha. 

Definitely much better grabbing yourself an external drive, I doubt Microsoft is going to make this option cheaper any time soon even though SSD's get cheaper all the time.

The thing with SSD's on PC is that yes... They are getting cheaper all the time, but they are also getting faster and better... Consoles are different, they stagnate for the duration of their useful lifespan.

In a few years time... A 1 terabyte, PCI-E 4.0 SSD will be bargain-basement stuff.

I do prefer mechanical disks due to their resilience in cold storage scenarios though. Shame they are terrible performers comparatively.



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Pemalite said:
eva01beserk said:

but its much more than the 5.5 vs 2.4 raw speed.

That is exactly what the difference is.

LOL I have to say, that you did very well going through all the points and explaining everything but this last one made me laugh so hard...
You should have started with this and not waste time on the rest



Pemalite said:
smroadkill15 said:

Damn that is a shit ton of storage, but I get the, everything installed part. I filled up 95% of mine before I realized I needed to start deleting games. Now I manage my storage and delete stuff if I haven't played it in awhile. 

Btw, thank for what you do. Where do you fight fires at? 

Definitely is allot... And ironically need more! I think I may keep the Series X as a Series X only gaming device and use my Xbox One X for Xbox One and older titles, not sure yet.

Based in South Australia, but have deployed to the United States and Europe a few times... And obviously assist wherever needed across Australia, plus do vertical rescue, marine rescue, road crash rescue, confined space, rescue from heights, hazmat and all the fun stuff.
Although deploying is out of the question during the COVID era, can't even go interstate, let alone overseas.

Been a few times where I have come home covered in someone elses blood... And the only thing you want at that point is shower, food and video games.

eva01beserk said:

Na you missed much more. Its why I said wach the presentation cuz I wont be able to explain as well but Ill give it a shot.

Let's cut through some of the bullshit here.

eva01beserk said:

Like the 4 extra PCIE4.0 lanes straight from the apu to the SSD


* The Playstation 5 has 4x PCI-E 4.0 lanes to the SSD. Not 8. It's identical to the Xbox Series X on this front.

eva01beserk said:

allowing it to skip the ram, the xbox has no such things.

* The Xbox Series X SSD can bypass Ram and stream data direct from SSD to the APU as well.

eva01beserk said:

having 12 chanel memory vs the xbox 8 or 4(we still dont know, its most likely 8).

* The memory channel count is ultimately redundant, it's just a silly marketing point and you fell for it. - You have two ways to you can increase bandwidth, faster memory chips or more memory chips. - Sony took the "more memory chips" route to solving the bandwidth problem.

eva01beserk said:

The soc dedicted to handle data wich the ps5 has an equivalent of 9 ryzen cores while the xbox has a 4 cores equivalent.

Absolute rubbish.
The Xbox Series X has hardware accellerated compression/decompression.

No. The fixed function blocks that aid this are *not* equivalent to a Ryzen CPU core... They are fixed function, not flexible x86 processing cores.

eva01beserk said:

Cerny mentioned that there are other bottlenecks that limit data transfer speed so hdd's and sdd's dont run at their full speed all the time and the ps5 has hardware and software for that. The xbox only has sotware.

There are certainly a ton of bottlenecks that can limit data transfer rates such as scheduling for example.

I would advise you not to "hang onto" every single utter word that Cerny murmurs... And there is a good reason for that. - Cerny is a paid employee of Sony and thus he has a conflict of interesting in inflating, supporting and big-noting his company and the products he is trying to sell.


Same goes for Phil Spencer and whoever is Nintendo's equivalent.


And no. Xbox doesn't only "have software". - The Xbox series X, like the Playstation 5 features hardware accelerated decompression/compression, which is also aided by software.
The companies might "brand" their approaches differently, but they share very similar concepts fundamentally, even if Sony's definitely has the performance edge.

eva01beserk said:

but its much more than the 5.5 vs 2.4 raw speed.

That is exactly what the difference is.

eva01beserk said:

And I think we saw  a bit of this on the start up comparisons they have both made, the xbox had games start in like 4x the speed of the previous gen wich was like 12s vs 54s, while the ps5 was instant almost. under 2 sec wich was just the button presses and the fade to black between inmages. it was insane. But again, thouse where diferent games we might need to wait untill the same games are compared to really see.

The Xbox may be doing other tasks in the background, there are far to many variables like different operating systems, api's and so forth for one.
Undoubtedly the Playstation 5 has the bandwidth edge on it's storage and that will translate to load times and other nuanced differences.

However, the SSD is still dog-awfully slow compared to Ram.

ArchangelMadzz said:

Getting a 1TB drive to expand your XSX in the UK is £29 cheaper than just buying an XSS. I'd rather have the 2 consoles aha. 

Definitely much better grabbing yourself an external drive, I doubt Microsoft is going to make this option cheaper any time soon even though SSD's get cheaper all the time.

The thing with SSD's on PC is that yes... They are getting cheaper all the time, but they are also getting faster and better... Consoles are different, they stagnate for the duration of their useful lifespan.

In a few years time... A 1 terabyte, PCI-E 4.0 SSD will be bargain-basement stuff.

I do prefer mechanical disks due to their resilience in cold storage scenarios though. Shame they are terrible performers comparatively.

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