By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Microsoft Discussion - Xbox Series X/S expandable storage is expensive....

 

Will you be buying this storage?

Yes 10 20.83%
 
No 38 79.17%
 
Total:48
Barkley said:
Metallox said:
Someone help me, I thought S/X had an HDD? So now those machines can benefit from the same advantages that Sony promoted so much with PS5 and its SSD? Or am I mixing up things?

S/X both have SSD's. PS5 SSD is almost twice the speed but the difference shouldn't be too pronounced. The Xbox storage is roughly 40 times faster than the previous generation consoles, so a difference of two times between Xbox/PS5 is going to seem minor by comparison.

Old HDD Consoles = ~120mb/s
Xbox Series S/X = 2400mb/s (raw), 4800mb/s (compressed)
PS5 = 4500mb/s (raw), 7500mb/s (compressed)

You should probably watch the road to ps5 conference. Theres so much you got wrong. 



It takes genuine talent to see greatness in yourself despite your absence of genuine talent.

Around the Network
Barkley said:
Metallox said:
Someone help me, I thought S/X had an HDD? So now those machines can benefit from the same advantages that Sony promoted so much with PS5 and its SSD? Or am I mixing up things?

S/X both have SSD's. PS5 SSD is almost twice the speed but the difference shouldn't be too pronounced. The Xbox storage is roughly 40 times faster than the previous generation consoles, so a difference of two times between Xbox/PS5 is going to seem minor by comparison.

Old HDD Consoles = ~120mb/s
Xbox Series S/X = 2400mb/s (raw), 4800mb/s (compressed)
PS5 = 4500mb/s (raw), 7500mb/s (compressed)

It's actually 5.5 GB/s (raw).



Sony, if you're reading this, do something new with The Legend of Dragoon. You will make me a happy man. Thanks.

Conina said:

Any word if the Xbox-SSD is TLC or QLC?

<SNIP>

My bets are on TLC.

JRPGfan said:
Hopefully over time they will drop in price.
Xbox solution being a perpriatary solution it probably wont drop much however.

Hopefully its not this bad on playstation side (or drops faster in price).
Because 1TB of storage for games isnt much.

It will drop in price, just expect it to still carry a premium due to being a propriety form factor, it's why I am a proponent of open-standards.

I would expect things to be just as bad on the Playstation 5 if they require faster drives.

DroidKnight said:
I will be buying 1 for each game I purchase, and I will make custom game cases for each of them to treat them as game cartridges. I can't decide if I'm going with gold or platinum for my custom casing.

Not a good idea. NAND looses data over time, it's not an ideal storage medium for cold-storage.
Your best bet is to get a large and fast mechanical hard drive and plug it in via USB... Preferably something with RAID.

Yes I know you were being sarcastic.

Metallox said:
Someone help me, I thought S/X had an HDD? So now those machines can benefit from the same advantages that Sony promoted so much with PS5 and its SSD? Or am I mixing up things?

The Series S and Series X both have a solid state drive and it does bring the same benefits as the Playstation 5 SSD.

The difference is in their transfer throughput's, the Playstation 5's drive is more than twice as fast, meaning the PS5 will get shorter load times and potentially less popin when streaming assets.

Bofferbrauer2 said:

As a rule of thumb, price in Euro is roughly the price in US$, just with the difference that the Euro price has it's VAT already included.

And I agree, SSDs weren't cheap enough yet to go 2 TB at the launch of this gen without being a substantial part of the unit price, and that's also the reason why the Series S has even just 500 GB. But that doesn't mean that storage extensions should be way more expensive than with off-the-shelf SSDs.

Consoles are cost sensitive devices, years ago I asserted we were *never* going to get a complete console with 16GB or more of Ram and a high-speed SSD for $399.
Sony had to drop the optical drive and Microsoft went with a lower-end device to achieve prices that were equal or less than that.

But yeah, 2 terabytes were definitely off the table, SSD's just are there yet from a price perspective, maybe in a few more years.


Cubedramirez said:
people who have a limited understanding of this technology are complaining it's expensive.

It is expensive.

A_Robo_Commando said:
Barkley said:

S/X both have SSD's. PS5 SSD is almost twice the speed but the difference shouldn't be too pronounced. The Xbox storage is roughly 40 times faster than the previous generation consoles, so a difference of two times between Xbox/PS5 is going to seem minor by comparison.

Old HDD Consoles = ~120mb/s
Xbox Series S/X = 2400mb/s (raw), 4800mb/s (compressed)
PS5 = 4500mb/s (raw), 7500mb/s (compressed)

It's actually 5.5 GB/s (raw).

And old HDD Consoles were not using 7200rpm drives which could push 120~ MB/s, often it was about 50-60MB/s due to the 5400rpm 2.5" drives. Aka. Cheap shit garbage.
And would take an additional performance penalty in any random operations due to the slow seek speed.





--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

A_Robo_Commando said:
Barkley said:

S/X both have SSD's. PS5 SSD is almost twice the speed but the difference shouldn't be too pronounced. The Xbox storage is roughly 40 times faster than the previous generation consoles, so a difference of two times between Xbox/PS5 is going to seem minor by comparison.

Old HDD Consoles = ~120mb/s
Xbox Series S/X = 2400mb/s (raw), 4800mb/s (compressed)
PS5 = 4500mb/s (raw), 7500mb/s (compressed)

It's actually 5.5 GB/s (raw).

I should have double checked the compressed number earlier as well--it's 9 GB/s.



Sony, if you're reading this, do something new with The Legend of Dragoon. You will make me a happy man. Thanks.

The question of required specs for PS5 to use off the shelf SSDs does remind me of Sony's custom I/O controller (e.g. the 6 levels of prioritization Cerny mentions). Seems like that could be attractive as open spec, let's call it "Play I/O", that SSD makers could utilize and market as performance standard games might target. Beyond a certain point massively higher speeds don't seem that imporant to consumers, and higher tier I/O system seems more efficient way to deliver performance. In other words SSD makers could still differentiate themselves as "more premium" using "smarter" I/O control rather than more expensive underlying flash chips etc. They could still offer higher speeds than PS5, with faster underlying chips and same I/O controller architecture, consolidating on standard for latter still being useful. Sony would benefit by having it standardized because every performance dependent game would be optimized for PS5's architecture, ensuring it's well supported.

Anyways, in absense of that,
Yeah it looks like you'll just need an off the shelf EDIT: PCIe4 NVME SSD with speeds slightly above Sony's to compensate simpler controller.

Last edited by mutantsushi - on 24 September 2020

Around the Network

The US pricing isn't bad.

But just saw the UK pricing is £220 which is insane.
I can't find a single gen 4 1TB SSD that costs more than £200 let alone £220....

I've been looking a Sabrent Rocket 4 which is £170 and is significantly faster than the XSX SSD...



PS4(PS5 Soon)and PC gaming

There's only 2 races: White and 'Political Agenda'
2 Genders: Male and 'Political Agenda'
2 Hairstyles for female characters: Long and 'Political Agenda'
2 Sexualities: Straight and 'Political Agenda'

mutantsushi said:
The question of required specs for PS5 to use off the shelf SSDs does remind me of Sony's custom I/O controller (e.g. the 6 levels of prioritization Cerny mentions),
Seems like that could be attractive as open spec, let's call it "Play I/O", that SSD makers could utilize and market as performance standard games might target.
Beyond a certain point massively higher speeds don't seem that imporant to consumers, and higher tier I/O system seems more efficient way to deliver performance.
In other words SSD makers could still differentiate themselves as "more premium" using "smarter" I/O control rather than more expensive underlying flash chips etc.
They could still offer higher speeds than PS5, with faster underlying chips and same I/O controller architecture, consolidating on standard for latter still being useful.
Sony would benefit by having it standardized because every performance dependent game would be optimized for PS5's architecture, ensuring it's well supported.

Anyways, in absense of that, yeah it looks like you'll just need an off the shelf PCIe5 NVME SSD with speeds slightly above Sony's to compensate simpler controller.

PCI 4.0 SSD's that will exceed PS5 speed enough to brute force compatibility will be out later this year. You won't have to wait for 5.0 which wouldn't be compatible anyway. 



PS4(PS5 Soon)and PC gaming

There's only 2 races: White and 'Political Agenda'
2 Genders: Male and 'Political Agenda'
2 Hairstyles for female characters: Long and 'Political Agenda'
2 Sexualities: Straight and 'Political Agenda'

That's really expensive in comparison to the console prices, especially XBSS and it's 500GB SSD. I can see why SNY didn't go that route.

---

yvanjean said:
ironmanDX said:

That's actually a really good idea...

The good news is that PS5 consoles should work the same way.

JRPGfan said:
Barkley said:

A 2TB SSD with better raw speed than the XSX SSD is $235 on Amazon... 3500mb/s read, 3000mb/s write. XSX SSD is 2400mb/s

This is why I like sony solution better, just allowing normal SSDs, and useing normal ports.
Market competion will drive prices of these SSDs down over time, and it ll be cheap(er) to add in more storage to your console.

Sony tried the expensive storage solutions with the Vita, and after that, they were done with perpriatary solutions of such.

Conina said:
JRPGfan said:

This is why I like sony solution better, just allowing normal SSDs, and useing normal ports.
Market competion will drive prices of these SSDs down over time, and it ll be cheap(er) to add in more storage to your console.

Sony tried the expensive storage solutions with the Vita, and after that, they were done with perpriatary solutions of such.

Which "normal SSDs" can be added to the PS5 where games can run from?

We still need a compatibility list!

https://www.pushsquare.com/guides/which-ssd-drives-will-be-compatible-with-ps5

Pushsquare's guess is that only the 980 Pro will meet the needed specs:

https://www.pushsquare.com/news/2020/09/this_could_be_the_first_ps5_compatible_ssd

Barkley said:
Conina said:

Which "normal SSDs" can be added to the PS5 where games can run from?

We still need a compatibility list!

https://www.pushsquare.com/guides/which-ssd-drives-will-be-compatible-with-ps5

Pushsquare's guess is that only the 980 Pro will meet the needed specs:

https://www.pushsquare.com/news/2020/09/this_could_be_the_first_ps5_compatible_ssd

I think pushsquare are looking at the 7.5GB/s figure for PS5 SSD... which is why they think 980 Pro is needed, forgetting that the 7.5GB/s is compressed speed. PS5's ssd actual speed is 4.5GB/s (presumably read, or maybe both read/write) which several SSD's on the market can match.

We definitley need that compatibility list, however I imagine this is more of a "this will definitley work" list, and that SSD's not on the list will also work assuming they can provide good enough performance.

I don't see why SNY wouldn't, if they could, allow for any NVMe to work in that slot. Now while the system may tell you that specific NVMe drive won't play games directly because it's not up to snuff, someone like me would like to use it as back up storage that can be transferred to the on board SSD.

The transfer speed from a slow internal NVMe to on board NVMe should be remarkably faster than external USB 3.0 (HDD) to on board NVMe. It would also allow for a much cleaner look not having a separate external drive.

Is it likely the PS5 will have to use a certain speed NVMe, period? I know that's what I got out of the Cerny presentation, but other than requiring that speed for direct play, is there an obvious particular reason why just any drive couldn't be used for back up purposes in that slot?



ArchangelMadzz said:
mutantsushi said:
in absense of that, yeah it looks like you'll just need an off the shelf PCIe5 NVME SSD with speeds slightly above Sony's

PCI 4.0 SSD's that will exceed PS5 speed enough to brute force compatibility will be out later this year. You won't have to wait for 5.0 which wouldn't be compatible anyway. 

Whoops, that is what I meant, but thanks for the correction. Still an expensive spec for now, although being 'open' the price should come down.



EricHiggin said:

The transfer speed from a slow internal NVMe to on board NVMe should be remarkably faster than external USB 3.0 (HDD) to on board NVMe. It would also allow for a much cleaner look not having a separate external drive.

Certainly if you have such an SSD lying around already, that's a reasonable solution if you are OK with copying games back and forth
when you want to play game you haven't touched recently, with notably faster copy speeds than just a HDD, even if not full PS5 spec.