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Forums - Microsoft Discussion - Xbox Series X/S expandable storage is expensive....

 

Will you be buying this storage?

Yes 10 20.83%
 
No 38 79.17%
 
Total:48
Metallox on 24 September 2020

Someone help me, I thought S/X had an HDD? So now those machines can benefit from the same advantages that Sony promoted so much with PS5 and its SSD? Or am I mixing up things?



My bet with The_Liquid_Laser: I think the Switch won't surpass the PS2 as the best selling system of all time. If it does, I'll play a game of a list that The_Liquid_Laser will provide, I will have to play it for 50 hours or complete it, whatever comes first. 

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A_Robo_Commando on 24 September 2020
Barkley said:
Conina said:

Which "normal SSDs" can be added to the PS5 where games can run from?

We still need a compatibility list!

https://www.pushsquare.com/guides/which-ssd-drives-will-be-compatible-with-ps5

Pushsquare's guess is that only the 980 Pro will meet the needed specs:

https://www.pushsquare.com/news/2020/09/this_could_be_the_first_ps5_compatible_ssd

I think pushsquare are looking at the 7.5GB/s figure for PS5 SSD... which is why they think 980 Pro is needed, forgetting that the 7.5GB/s is compressed speed. PS5's ssd actual speed is 4.5GB/s (presumably read, or maybe both read/write) which several SSD's on the market can match.

We definitley need that compatibility list, however I imagine this is more of a "this will definitley work" list, and that SSD's not on the list will also work assuming they can provide good enough performance.

Cerny said in "The Road to PS5" that the storage you buy for the PS5 has to be a little faster than what's in the console to be able to make up for the extra stuff that they did for the PS5's internal storage. Start from 20:44 to 22:44 for what was said about it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ph8LyNIT9sg



Sony, if you're reading this, do something new with The Legend of Dragoon. You will make me a happy man. Thanks.

Cubedramirez on 24 September 2020

people who have a limited understanding of this technology are complaining it's expensive.



Barkley on 24 September 2020
Metallox said:
Someone help me, I thought S/X had an HDD? So now those machines can benefit from the same advantages that Sony promoted so much with PS5 and its SSD? Or am I mixing up things?

S/X both have SSD's. PS5 SSD is almost twice the speed but the difference shouldn't be too pronounced. The Xbox storage is roughly 40 times faster than the previous generation consoles, so a difference of two times between Xbox/PS5 is going to seem minor by comparison.

Old HDD Consoles = ~120mb/s
Xbox Series S/X = 2400mb/s (raw), 4800mb/s (compressed)
PS5 = 4500mb/s (raw), 7500mb/s (compressed)



Metallox on 24 September 2020
Barkley said:
Metallox said:
Someone help me, I thought S/X had an HDD? So now those machines can benefit from the same advantages that Sony promoted so much with PS5 and its SSD? Or am I mixing up things?

S/X both have SSD's. PS5 SSD is almost twice the speed but the difference shouldn't be too pronounced. The Xbox storage is roughly 40 times faster than the previous generation consoles, so a difference of two times between Xbox/PS5 is going to seem minor by comparison.

Old HDD Consoles = ~120mb/s
Xbox Series S/X = 2400mb/s (raw), 4800mb/s (compressed)
PS5 = 4500mb/s (raw), 7500mb/s (compressed)

Got it. So the difference is in the speed of the storage units. 



My bet with The_Liquid_Laser: I think the Switch won't surpass the PS2 as the best selling system of all time. If it does, I'll play a game of a list that The_Liquid_Laser will provide, I will have to play it for 50 hours or complete it, whatever comes first. 

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eva01beserk on 24 September 2020
Barkley said:
Metallox said:
Someone help me, I thought S/X had an HDD? So now those machines can benefit from the same advantages that Sony promoted so much with PS5 and its SSD? Or am I mixing up things?

S/X both have SSD's. PS5 SSD is almost twice the speed but the difference shouldn't be too pronounced. The Xbox storage is roughly 40 times faster than the previous generation consoles, so a difference of two times between Xbox/PS5 is going to seem minor by comparison.

Old HDD Consoles = ~120mb/s
Xbox Series S/X = 2400mb/s (raw), 4800mb/s (compressed)
PS5 = 4500mb/s (raw), 7500mb/s (compressed)

You should probably watch the road to ps5 conference. Theres so much you got wrong. 



It takes genuine talent to see greatness in yourself despite your absence of genuine talent.

A_Robo_Commando on 24 September 2020
Barkley said:
Metallox said:
Someone help me, I thought S/X had an HDD? So now those machines can benefit from the same advantages that Sony promoted so much with PS5 and its SSD? Or am I mixing up things?

S/X both have SSD's. PS5 SSD is almost twice the speed but the difference shouldn't be too pronounced. The Xbox storage is roughly 40 times faster than the previous generation consoles, so a difference of two times between Xbox/PS5 is going to seem minor by comparison.

Old HDD Consoles = ~120mb/s
Xbox Series S/X = 2400mb/s (raw), 4800mb/s (compressed)
PS5 = 4500mb/s (raw), 7500mb/s (compressed)

It's actually 5.5 GB/s (raw).



Sony, if you're reading this, do something new with The Legend of Dragoon. You will make me a happy man. Thanks.

Pemalite on 24 September 2020
Conina said:

Any word if the Xbox-SSD is TLC or QLC?

<SNIP>

My bets are on TLC.

JRPGfan said:
Hopefully over time they will drop in price.
Xbox solution being a perpriatary solution it probably wont drop much however.

Hopefully its not this bad on playstation side (or drops faster in price).
Because 1TB of storage for games isnt much.

It will drop in price, just expect it to still carry a premium due to being a propriety form factor, it's why I am a proponent of open-standards.

I would expect things to be just as bad on the Playstation 5 if they require faster drives.

DroidKnight said:
I will be buying 1 for each game I purchase, and I will make custom game cases for each of them to treat them as game cartridges. I can't decide if I'm going with gold or platinum for my custom casing.

Not a good idea. NAND looses data over time, it's not an ideal storage medium for cold-storage.
Your best bet is to get a large and fast mechanical hard drive and plug it in via USB... Preferably something with RAID.

Yes I know you were being sarcastic.

Metallox said:
Someone help me, I thought S/X had an HDD? So now those machines can benefit from the same advantages that Sony promoted so much with PS5 and its SSD? Or am I mixing up things?

The Series S and Series X both have a solid state drive and it does bring the same benefits as the Playstation 5 SSD.

The difference is in their transfer throughput's, the Playstation 5's drive is more than twice as fast, meaning the PS5 will get shorter load times and potentially less popin when streaming assets.

Bofferbrauer2 said:

As a rule of thumb, price in Euro is roughly the price in US$, just with the difference that the Euro price has it's VAT already included.

And I agree, SSDs weren't cheap enough yet to go 2 TB at the launch of this gen without being a substantial part of the unit price, and that's also the reason why the Series S has even just 500 GB. But that doesn't mean that storage extensions should be way more expensive than with off-the-shelf SSDs.

Consoles are cost sensitive devices, years ago I asserted we were *never* going to get a complete console with 16GB or more of Ram and a high-speed SSD for $399.
Sony had to drop the optical drive and Microsoft went with a lower-end device to achieve prices that were equal or less than that.

But yeah, 2 terabytes were definitely off the table, SSD's just are there yet from a price perspective, maybe in a few more years.


Cubedramirez said:
people who have a limited understanding of this technology are complaining it's expensive.

It is expensive.

A_Robo_Commando said:
Barkley said:

S/X both have SSD's. PS5 SSD is almost twice the speed but the difference shouldn't be too pronounced. The Xbox storage is roughly 40 times faster than the previous generation consoles, so a difference of two times between Xbox/PS5 is going to seem minor by comparison.

Old HDD Consoles = ~120mb/s
Xbox Series S/X = 2400mb/s (raw), 4800mb/s (compressed)
PS5 = 4500mb/s (raw), 7500mb/s (compressed)

It's actually 5.5 GB/s (raw).

And old HDD Consoles were not using 7200rpm drives which could push 120~ MB/s, often it was about 50-60MB/s due to the 5400rpm 2.5" drives. Aka. Cheap shit garbage.
And would take an additional performance penalty in any random operations due to the slow seek speed.





--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

A_Robo_Commando on 24 September 2020
A_Robo_Commando said:
Barkley said:

S/X both have SSD's. PS5 SSD is almost twice the speed but the difference shouldn't be too pronounced. The Xbox storage is roughly 40 times faster than the previous generation consoles, so a difference of two times between Xbox/PS5 is going to seem minor by comparison.

Old HDD Consoles = ~120mb/s
Xbox Series S/X = 2400mb/s (raw), 4800mb/s (compressed)
PS5 = 4500mb/s (raw), 7500mb/s (compressed)

It's actually 5.5 GB/s (raw).

I should have double checked the compressed number earlier as well--it's 9 GB/s.



Sony, if you're reading this, do something new with The Legend of Dragoon. You will make me a happy man. Thanks.

mutantsushi on 24 September 2020

The question of required specs for PS5 to use off the shelf SSDs does remind me of Sony's custom I/O controller (e.g. the 6 levels of prioritization Cerny mentions). Seems like that could be attractive as open spec, let's call it "Play I/O", that SSD makers could utilize and market as performance standard games might target. Beyond a certain point massively higher speeds don't seem that imporant to consumers, and higher tier I/O system seems more efficient way to deliver performance. In other words SSD makers could still differentiate themselves as "more premium" using "smarter" I/O control rather than more expensive underlying flash chips etc. They could still offer higher speeds than PS5, with faster underlying chips and same I/O controller architecture, consolidating on standard for latter still being useful. Sony would benefit by having it standardized because every performance dependent game would be optimized for PS5's architecture, ensuring it's well supported.

Anyways, in absense of that,
Yeah it looks like you'll just need an off the shelf EDIT: PCIe4 NVME SSD with speeds slightly above Sony's to compensate simpler controller.

Last edited by mutantsushi - on 24 September 2020