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Forums - Sports Discussion - 2022 NBA Offseason - Rest in Peace Bill Russell

smroadkill15 said:

Very well-deserved finals MVP for Steph. Warriors are way too battle tested for these moments.

LONG overdue if you ask me. He should've won it in 2015 and 2018, but oh well.



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PAOerfulone said:

My Top 10 Greatest Players of All-Time, Pre-Finals:
1. Michael Jordan
2. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
3. Bill Russell
4. LeBron James
5. Kobe Bryant
6. Larry Bird
7. Magic Johnson
8. Tim Duncan
9. Wilt Chamberlain
10. Hakeem Olajuwon/Shaquille O'Neal (I'm always flip-flopping between these two.)

POST FINALS:
1. Michael Jordan
2. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
3. Bill Russell
4. LeBron James
5. Kobe Bryant
6. Larry Bird
7. Magic Johnson
8. Tim Duncan
9. Stephen Curry
10. Wilt Chamberlain

I'm surprised how close this is to my mind. Only changes: I'd drop Lebron behind Kobe (unless he wins another ring), and I still have it close between him and Bird; also I'd drop Duncan out and move the rest up. Other than that, pretty much exactly the same.

PAOerfulone said:
smroadkill15 said:

Very well-deserved finals MVP for Steph. Warriors are way too battle tested for these moments.

LONG overdue if you ask me. He should've won it in 2015 and 2018, but oh well.

It's a double-standard that he was the best player on the team in 2015, yet they gave it to the guy who had a better series. But in 2018 they should've easily rolled the Cavs again (which they eventually did), yet in the first two games at home they were legitimately struggling early while Durant went missing and Curry bailed them out. Even if people considered Durant a better player, Curry was more important in that series, but his stats dropped in garbage time blowouts while Durant was running up the score.

Even when they lost to Toronto, people somehow felt Steph could've done more, yet forget while Durant was injured during most of that playoff run Curry carried the shit out of them, especially torching the Rockets and completely outplaying Harden.

I don't particularly even like Steph or his game, but it's always bothered me how he seems to be taken for granted just to elevate other players the media prefer.



Shaunodon said:
PAOerfulone said:

My Top 10 Greatest Players of All-Time, Pre-Finals:
1. Michael Jordan
2. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
3. Bill Russell
4. Kobe Bryant
5. LeBron James
6. Larry Bird
7. Magic Johnson
8. Tim Duncan
9. Wilt Chamberlain
10. Hakeem Olajuwon/Shaquille O'Neal (I'm always flip-flopping between these two.)

POST FINALS:
1. Michael Jordan
2. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
3. Bill Russell
4. Kobe Bryant
5. LeBron James
6. Larry Bird
7. Magic Johnson
8. Tim Duncan
9. Stephen Curry
10. Wilt Chamberlain

I'm surprised how close this is to my mind. Only changes: I'd drop Lebron behind Kobe (unless he wins another ring), and I still have it close between him and Bird; also I'd drop Duncan out and move the rest up. Other than that, pretty much exactly the same.

PAOerfulone said:

LONG overdue if you ask me. He should've won it in 2015 and 2018, but oh well.

It's a double-standard that he was the best player on the team in 2015, yet they gave it to the guy who had a better series. But in 2018 they should've easily rolled the Cavs again (which they eventually did), yet in the first two games at home they were legitimately struggling early while Durant went missing and Curry bailed them out. Even if people considered Durant a better player, Curry was more important in that series, but his stats dropped in garbage time blowouts while Durant was running up the score.

Even when they lost to Toronto, people somehow felt Steph could've done more, yet forget while Durant was injured during most of that playoff run Curry carried the shit out of them, especially torching the Rockets and completely outplaying Harden.

I don't particularly even like Steph or his game, but it's always bothered me how he seems to be taken for granted just to elevate other players the media prefer.

As someone who loves Kobe dearly, he will always be my favorite player, I just can't deny LeBron's resume at this point. 4 chips, 4 MVPs, 4 Finals MVPs, and most likely the All-Time Leading Scorer by the end of next season. It's just too much to argue against. Now, if I had to choose between LeBron and Kobe in their primes or at the start of their careers to start my team with, I'm taking Kobe, hands down. But overall resumes and legacy, I have to give the nod to LeBron.

EDIT: Now that I've had more time to think about it and I think about them as leaders, not just players, yeah, I'd much, MUCH rather have Kobe over LeBron. So yeah, I put Kobe back ahead of LeBron.

And wow, I'd like to hear your argument on why you'd take Duncan out completely. 5 rings, 3 Finals MVPs, 2 League MVPs, best PF ever. Leaving him off a Top 10 is a bold claim.

------------------------------

I firmly believe that if Klay had not suffered that Torn ACL in Game 6 of 2019 and he's able to play the rest of the way, the Warriors win that game. Then WHO KNOWS what happens in Toronto for Game 7. People, and especially the analysts who want to build up Durant, all fail to realize that KD was able to do all that damage the Warriors were able to have that success because of Steph. We just saw it in this series, especially Game 5, where Steph draws SO MUCH attention from the other team's defense that it opens things up for everyone else. Wiggins had the greatest game of his life in Game 5 because Steph took Marcus Smart out to damn near half court and made the game 4 on 4, giving Wiggins more room to attack. The same was true for KD in 2017. I lost count how many times KD had a wide open dunk in transition because JR Smith or Kyrie or LeBron were running out to Steph at the 3-point line, giving KD an open lane to the basket.

I have never seen a player impact a game the way or to the degree that Steph does night in and night out. Even when he's having an off night, he still effects the game because just him being on the court and moving all over the place off the ball opens things up for everyone else!

Last edited by PAOerfulone - on 11 July 2022

PAOerfulone said:
Chrkeller said:

I could be wrong, but series is over IMHO. Celtics aren't going to win two straight including a potential game 7 on the road. Tatum simply isn't playing good enough.

It'd be foolish to count out the Celtics in Boston, especially with their backs against the wall. I could easily see them winning Game 6 and then WHO KNOWS what happens in a Game 7. 

Can I count the Celtics out now?



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It's honestly shocking to me that apparently the only thing the Celtics could ever think to do on offense, was put their heads down, and barrel into people like running backs. How could their coach let them continue to play this way game after game? It's not football. You can't just keep charging into 3 defenders and either turning the ball over, or taking an insanely hard shot. Unreal.

That said, super happy for the Warriors. Klay coming back from multiple horrible injuries, Steph finally getting a well deserved Finals MVP, Wiggins proving a lot of people wrong by showing that he's unquestionably a hard worker and cares deeply about winning. Lots of great storylines there.



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Angelus said:

It's honestly shocking to me that apparently the only thing the Celtics could ever think to do on offense, was put their heads down, and barrel into people like running backs. How could their coach let them continue to play this way game after game? It's not football. You can't just keep charging into 3 defenders and either turning the ball over, or taking an insanely hard shot. Unreal.

That said, super happy for the Warriors. Klay coming back from multiple horrible injuries, Steph finally getting a well deserved Finals MVP, Wiggins proving a lot of people wrong by showing that he's unquestionably a hard worker and cares deeply about winning. Lots of great storylines there.

Tatum and Brown are young.  Their inexperience showed.  I had picked the Warriors as a result of their experience.  



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And that's another season wrapped up. Was hoping Suns could go all the way but alas... Congrats Warriors, I thank you as a Lakers fan.



Steph Curry is the best three-point shooter of all time but is way too one dimensional to ever be close to my, top ten players of all time even if he plays another five years. Steph is not even close to be at or near the top ten in any other statistical category besides three-point shooting and even with all the three he made he is still only 47th in the list of points leaders. Jayson Tatum pretty much played like ass the entire series so its kind surprising the Celtics actually won two games in the finals. Well, on to the draft going to be interesting who is going to pick Nikola Jovic the guy has the potential to easily become the steal of the draft.



Chris Hu said:

Steph Curry is the best three-point shooter of all time but is way too one dimensional to ever be close to my, top ten players of all time even if he plays another five years. Steph is not even close to be at or near the top ten in any other statistical category besides three-point shooting and even with all the three he made he is still only 47th in the list of points leaders. Jayson Tatum pretty much played like ass the entire series so its kind surprising the Celtics actually won two games in the finals. Well, on to the draft going to be interesting who is going to pick Nikola Jovic the guy has the potential to easily become the steal of the draft.

Well, well, well... He disappears at the end of the First Round after pretty much all of his predictions fell apart, and comes back just in time to dog on Steph.

There has never been a dude who has changed or impacted the game the way Steph has. What he has done for the game of basketball goes FAR beyond any stat sheet or statistical category. 

Back in the 90s and 00s, the kids wanted to "Be Like Mike." Now? The kids want to "Be Like Steph." And now, he just silenced the only argument people could make against him: "He NeVeR wOn FiNaLs MvP!!!"

Dude is a 4x Champ, 2x League MVP (First and only Unanimous MVP), Finals MVP, 2x Scoring Champ, 1x STEALS Champ (For those who say he can't play defense.) and is far and away the greatest shooter in history. 



Chris Hu said:

Steph Curry is the best three-point shooter of all time but is way too one dimensional to ever be close to my, top ten players of all time even if he plays another five years. Steph is not even close to be at or near the top ten in any other statistical category besides three-point shooting and even with all the three he made he is still only 47th in the list of points leaders. Jayson Tatum pretty much played like ass the entire series so its kind surprising the Celtics actually won two games in the finals. Well, on to the draft going to be interesting who is going to pick Nikola Jovic the guy has the potential to easily become the steal of the draft.

Kind of a weird take. Steph is not at all one dimensional offensively. He's got sweet handles, he can get to the rim and finish there about as well as anyone, his midrange game is nice, and he's got a deadly floater that seems to work for him just about anywhere inside the 3 point line. The only reasons for him not ranking way higher on the all time scoring list, are basically injuries (especially early in his career), as well as the fact that he's incredibly unselfish and willing to play very team oriented basketball, and sacrifice touches to those around him. Also, while his size and stature certainly limit him defensively, he does at least put forth the effort you wanna see on that side of the ball, and he's got decent hands when it comes taking the ball away.

I'm honestly not enough of a student of the game to do an all time top 10 list that I would feel comfortable about putting forth as something that adequately respect the many generations of older players I never actually got a chance to see. That said, when it comes to the modern NBA, that I came to know and fall in love with back in the very early 2000s, I would put Steph right there among the very best of the best I've seen in that time. He's up there with Shaq, and Kobe in terms of how much he puts any opposing defense on their heels right from the jump. Even when Kevin Durant, total freak of nature in his own right, was on the team with Steph, opposing defenses would literally sell out to try and do anything within their power to prevent Steph from seeing an inch of breathing space beyond half court. That's an undeniably all time generational impact player.

Again, is he top 10 all time...I don't think that's for me personally to judge, but he's legendary all the same.