Forums - Politics Discussion - What's your definition of a political moderate?

How do you define a political moderate?

Someone who favors only modest changes. 5 20.83%
 
Someone who holds a comb... 19 79.17%
 
Total:24
Jaicee said:

I've been thinking about embracing the term 'moderate' as a descriptor for a while now. Here's the deal: For as long as I've had political opinions, I've always thought of myself as left wing. Strongly left, in fact. Although I have learned and grown over the years, this much hasn't changed. Until recent years. It's not that I've moved a lot, it's that it's very clear that the left does not wish to be associated with me anymore. Things I consider secondary differences of opinion with the mainstream progressive movement have now been rendered dividing-line matters that merit dissociation with me. I'm banned from the Revolutionary Left forums, banned from the Democratic Underground forums, banned from Pride, the main subreddit I visit have been banned and you'll never guess who the instigators of that were. It does make one question whether or not these are the right people to call allies. It increasingly feels like maybe the progressive movement is changing in a way that excludes me by definition and maybe I should accordingly think about embracing a different term formally.

I do worry a tiny bit though that calling myself a moderate from here on, like on the social medias and such, may be misleading in that I think many people's definition of a moderate is like a neoliberal or just somebody who basically favors the status quo and that ain't me. No, I am not undergoing a "red-pilling" or anything of that nature. I've not had some revelation that's changed my fundamental worldview in substance and I kinda think that these terms the left and right have like "red pilled" and "woke" are rather arrogant and pretentious in fact in that everybody seems to assume that they're the only ones 'awake' and everybody else is apparently just too oblivious and dumb to understand their deeper truths or whatever. Most of the views I hold still feel like left-leaning ones to me. But I hold a few opinions strongly that are most often classified as right-leaning (whether that's really fair or not) and I'm frustrated though with how every difference of opinion, particularly on social issues, is treated as a dividing line that requires the severance of ties. That's why I'm thinking moderate might be the right term by which to describe myself henceforth. But like I said, I'd also prefer that people not feel misled like on the social medias and such by my use of that descriptor.

So what do you think? When you hear the term "moderate" do you hear "unprincipled person who stands for nothing" or more like "somebody who's combination of views doesn't fit neatly into a progressive/conservative categorization"?

A moderate left is someone who doesn't hold extreme views and doesn't favour major change. So someone who believes in the elimination of class distinction in the US would be a radical leftist, but for some reason the whole gun regulation issue is a left/right thing in the US (I don't know why?), but if they are anti-gun regulation and still believe in the elimination of class distinction, they're not suddenly moderate. A moderate is someone who would be in favour of policies to lessen the class distinction, but not in favour of doing way with them completely.

But, in the US, everything in politics is incorrectly divided up into left and right categories. It's a massive over-simplification and is generally not correct.


Also, you've been excommunicated by the US leftist groupthink, but that doesn't mean you're not a leftist, it just means you're independent of them. They don't own the leftist ideology - they only think they do because they know how to mindlessly recite a song and dance, but will call heretic on anyone who actually has an independent thought... even if it is objectively further left. They excommunicated Elizabeth Warren, too; using tactics such as conspiracy theories, and taking irrelevant pieces of information and making them paramount reasons as to why she is to be viewed as an enemy of the left; many of them racist attacks, either calling her Pocahontas or feeling that Donald Trump calling her Pocahontas is a legitimate and effective attack on her. That's why those sorts need to be called out and ridiculed, harshly (I've done my part). Anyone who claims to be a leftist and felt Elizabeth Warren was far more dangerous than Donald Trump or the Republican party should be challenged - although, most of the time they don't even try to argue, and instead just re-recite their song and dance narrative, because they're idiots. 

Anyway, the point of my ramble is that these sites/groups don't own the left. If they ban you for having a different point of view, then fuck them =P



I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.

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Dante9 said:
I think the definition of moderate is someone who is not at either extreme, but sits more closely to the center of things. They can still be left-leaning or right-leaning.
However you want to define it, the problem at the moment is that the extreme left have made everything an "us or them" scenario. Either you are extreme left or you are far right/nazi and there's nothing in between for them. They even eat their fellow leftists alive, if they are too moderate in their views. Purity tests apply.

Guess I'm a moderate then:



Every one thinks they are a moderate. Doesn’t answer your question. Just stating.



Being a moderate is only half the equation.

Moderate bipartisanship
Moderate progressive

You can be a moderate at anything. But yeah we like nice labels that don’t mean what they say.



sundin13 said:
Immersiveunreality said:
Really if you are a moderate in the US there is a possibility you are more likely to think in a logically and more considerate way but i understand why some angerfueled people that go way extreme to both sides might consider you a problem.

I've been talking about something I like to call "Centrism Bias" for a while now. I think a lot of people have this idea of "Moderates" that you expressed here where those in the middle get kind of put on a pedestal of rationality and objectivity, which leads a lot of people who are clearly not moderate to identify as such. Because of this "centrism bias", when I see someone self-identifying as a moderate, I instantly see a little red flag. Often these are people with a clear lean who just want to present as a moderate to give themselves some sort of moral or rational high ground. If you criticize them and their beliefs, they often use it as a crutch and say "I'm not liberal/conservative, I'm a moderate!" to escape criticism. 

Of course this doesn't apply to everyone, but its something I've seen often enough that I think it is worth mentioning.

I see it more as the opposite of how you see it,in my experience the more radical someone gets the more tone deaf and often the higher the horse is they sit on.

It really depends on the person using the words ofcourse and just the culture you come from/in this context Jaicee seems very open about what side she is on but is more open to behaviour that those in an echochamber might block.

I do not really see moderate as centrism no,just a state of personallity that can exist anywhere on the spectrum,that is were our opinion differs?

Ofcourse there are people who are not what they say and use a term/word to be on a high horse,case to case scenario is important to consider and do not put people in groups attached with negativity so easily.Based on personallity and maturity people get on high horses not matter what labels are attached to them.

Jaicee said:
Immersiveunreality said:

Lol i did the political compass thingy,do not know if it is even close to accurate.

For the more extreme i might be considered fairly moderate i guess.

Just reading over some of these questions and even more especially the summation at the end, I'd say this test was designed to land as many people as possible in the bottom-left quadrant and as many politicians as possible in the upper-right quadrant for contrast. The way things are written also seems old, like this test was made 15 years ago or something. I can't help but notice the absence of questions about issues like gender identity or gun policy that have become much more relevant in this country, if not globally, in the last decade, for instance. But I also don't really think there's such a thing as a truly objective political test or quiz out there. Here's what I got on it just now:

I found it easy to land in that quadrant, as you basically had to admit to being a racist and an opponent of multi-party democracy to land anywhere more authoritarian than the bottom half and had to sound totally callous to not wind up left-of-center on economic policy.

Yeah indeed,all in all that test is pretty stupid and a lot of the questions asked are not smart or very ambiguous/generalizing.

Jaicee said:
Immersiveunreality said:
Really if you are a moderate in the US there is a possibility you are more likely to think in a logically and more considerate way but i understand why some angerfueled people that go way extreme to both sides might consider you a problem.

I am a problem, so that's all good.

Hey,based on someone everywhere you are always a problem no matter what you do.

But never let that stop you from doing what you think is best.

Last edited by Immersiveunreality - on 09 July 2020

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snyps said:
Every one thinks they are a moderate. Doesn’t answer your question. Just stating.

Yeah,like centrist was used to escape the left or right labels what made centrist again a negative label on its own and same with moderate.

Single labels like that are used to describe whole peoples characters.(sadly)

Last edited by Immersiveunreality - on 09 July 2020

Locknuts said:
Tim Pool

Tim Pool a moderate LMAO

The guy is a right winger / grifter hiding his powerlevel by being one of those "I'm left but the left has gone crazy!" types like Rubin and Sargon. But nope, they are very very much on the right.




sundin13 said:
Immersiveunreality said:
Really if you are a moderate in the US there is a possibility you are more likely to think in a logically and more considerate way but i understand why some angerfueled people that go way extreme to both sides might consider you a problem.

I've been talking about something I like to call "Centrism Bias" for a while now. I think a lot of people have this idea of "Moderates" that you expressed here where those in the middle get kind of put on a pedestal of rationality and objectivity, which leads a lot of people who are clearly not moderate to identify as such. Because of this "centrism bias", when I see someone self-identifying as a moderate, I instantly see a little red flag. Often these are people with a clear lean who just want to present as a moderate to give themselves some sort of moral or rational high ground. If you criticize them and their beliefs, they often use it as a crutch and say "I'm not liberal/conservative, I'm a moderate!" to escape criticism. 

Of course this doesn't apply to everyone, but its something I've seen often enough that I think it is worth mentioning.

I barely squeaked out of high school and dropped out of college without a degree of any kind, subsequently made a long series of epic lifestyle mistakes that constituted the darkest period of my life, and find myself an all-around failure with no future at age 38. I know I'm not smart and would never claim to be.



Jaicee said:
sundin13 said:

I've been talking about something I like to call "Centrism Bias" for a while now. I think a lot of people have this idea of "Moderates" that you expressed here where those in the middle get kind of put on a pedestal of rationality and objectivity, which leads a lot of people who are clearly not moderate to identify as such. Because of this "centrism bias", when I see someone self-identifying as a moderate, I instantly see a little red flag. Often these are people with a clear lean who just want to present as a moderate to give themselves some sort of moral or rational high ground. If you criticize them and their beliefs, they often use it as a crutch and say "I'm not liberal/conservative, I'm a moderate!" to escape criticism. 

Of course this doesn't apply to everyone, but its something I've seen often enough that I think it is worth mentioning.

I barely squeaked out of high school and dropped out of college without a degree of any kind, subsequently made a long series of epic lifestyle mistakes that constituted the darkest period of my life, and find myself an all-around failure with no future at age 38. I know I'm not smart and would never claim to be.

Oh, I certainly don't think this applies to you personally. I also don't really think "moderate" applies to you either.

I disagree with you in a lot of ways, but disagreeing with people on the left doesn't mean you aren't on the left. I've regularly disagreed with people on the left too but I wouldn't call myself a moderate because it just doesn't make sense. While a lot of people seem to see it as a weakness, and it certainly can be at times, I think there is a lot of good within the fact that the left regularly and vehemently disagrees with itself. Diversity is our strength, and that includes diversity of opinion. That doesn't make it suck any less when some of the more vociferous lefties go for the throat, but personally, I take solace in the fact that I genuinely believe these disagreements come from a good place. Even when I think about how strongly I disagree with some of your opinions, and how harmful I believe some of your opinions can be, I do think they come from a good place. 

But just generally, I think one should stay away from defining themselves through someone else's perspective...



What bothers me is that every Presidential election here in USA you have so called independents that claim they are still undecided a week or even days within election. It's like what the fuck have you been paying any attention.  If you can't make up your mind after numerous debates or checking out campaign sites to see where candidates stand then maybe you should join the millions of others that don't vote because there might not be much brain activity going on.  I believe they are independent of decision making and critical thinking.  To me there is no damn excuse to be like oh jeez I don't know when election is days away.

Last edited by sethnintendo - on 10 July 2020