Forums - Politics Discussion - What's your definition of a political moderate?

How do you define a political moderate?

Someone who favors only modest changes. 5 20.83%
 
Someone who holds a comb... 19 79.17%
 
Total:24
sundin13 said:
Jaicee said:

I barely squeaked out of high school and dropped out of college without a degree of any kind, subsequently made a long series of epic lifestyle mistakes that constituted the darkest period of my life, and find myself an all-around failure with no future at age 38. I know I'm not smart and would never claim to be.

Oh, I certainly don't think this applies to you personally. I also don't really think "moderate" applies to you either.

I disagree with you in a lot of ways, but disagreeing with people on the left doesn't mean you aren't on the left. I've regularly disagreed with people on the left too but I wouldn't call myself a moderate because it just doesn't make sense. While a lot of people seem to see it as a weakness, and it certainly can be at times, I think there is a lot of good within the fact that the left regularly and vehemently disagrees with itself. Diversity is our strength, and that includes diversity of opinion. That doesn't make it suck any less when some of the more vociferous lefties go for the throat, but personally, I take solace in the fact that I genuinely believe these disagreements come from a good place. Even when I think about how strongly I disagree with some of your opinions, and how harmful I believe some of your opinions can be, I do think they come from a good place. 

But just generally, I think one should stay away from defining themselves through someone else's perspective...

I get what you're saying. There was another of our members here at VGC who late last year made a similar contention about not letting others define me when I mused about embracing the term moderate and it resonated with me at the time. The label "progressive" has just become a burden to me at this point though. It's not worth calling myself a progressive only to inevitably have to spend the rest of a given conversation defending my legitimacy as one. It subtracts from my ability to talk about issues at this point rather than adding clarity to where I stand.



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snyps said:
sethnintendo said:

What bothers me is that every Presidential election here in USA you have so called independents that claim they are still undecided a week or even days within election. It's like what the fuck have you been paying any attention.  If you can't make up your mind after numerous debates or checking out campaign sites to see where candidates stand then maybe you should join the millions of others that don't vote because there might not be much brain activity going on.

Sadder still is that people base their votes on the stuff these candidates say in the debates and web, rather than looking up what the candidates did on record. People believe anything. 

I'm pretty sure Biden has a better track record than Trump.

Let me see Trump University - scam, Trump Charity - scam, Several failed casinos, racist false attacks against Obama being one of the most outspoken birther, shitty ass TV show, and I can keep going on



Jaicee said:
sundin13 said:

Oh, I certainly don't think this applies to you personally. I also don't really think "moderate" applies to you either.

I disagree with you in a lot of ways, but disagreeing with people on the left doesn't mean you aren't on the left. I've regularly disagreed with people on the left too but I wouldn't call myself a moderate because it just doesn't make sense. While a lot of people seem to see it as a weakness, and it certainly can be at times, I think there is a lot of good within the fact that the left regularly and vehemently disagrees with itself. Diversity is our strength, and that includes diversity of opinion. That doesn't make it suck any less when some of the more vociferous lefties go for the throat, but personally, I take solace in the fact that I genuinely believe these disagreements come from a good place. Even when I think about how strongly I disagree with some of your opinions, and how harmful I believe some of your opinions can be, I do think they come from a good place. 

But just generally, I think one should stay away from defining themselves through someone else's perspective...

I get what you're saying. There was another of our members here at VGC who late last year made a similar contention about not letting others define me when I mused about embracing the term moderate and it resonated with me at the time. The label "progressive" has just become a burden to me at this point though. It's not worth calling myself a progressive only to inevitably have to spend the rest of a given conversation defending my legitimacy as one. It subtracts from my ability to talk about issues at this point rather than adding clarity to where I stand.

I think that is fair too, but it begs the question, why are you searching for a label in the first place? I think in some ways I'm probably more "progressive" than you, but I don't think I've ever called myself a progressive. Labels can be a valuable shorthand for expressing your opinions, but if they don't fit, you don't really need to go on a vision quest to find a new one.



sundin13 said:
Jaicee said:

I get what you're saying. There was another of our members here at VGC who late last year made a similar contention about not letting others define me when I mused about embracing the term moderate and it resonated with me at the time. The label "progressive" has just become a burden to me at this point though. It's not worth calling myself a progressive only to inevitably have to spend the rest of a given conversation defending my legitimacy as one. It subtracts from my ability to talk about issues at this point rather than adding clarity to where I stand.

I think that is fair too, but it begs the question, why are you searching for a label in the first place? I think in some ways I'm probably more "progressive" than you, but I don't think I've ever called myself a progressive. Labels can be a valuable shorthand for expressing your opinions, but if they don't fit, you don't really need to go on a vision quest to find a new one.

I want a label because if I don't label myself, if I don't define myself that way, somebody else will and I'd like that less.



Jaicee said:
sundin13 said:

I think that is fair too, but it begs the question, why are you searching for a label in the first place? I think in some ways I'm probably more "progressive" than you, but I don't think I've ever called myself a progressive. Labels can be a valuable shorthand for expressing your opinions, but if they don't fit, you don't really need to go on a vision quest to find a new one.

I want a label because if I don't label myself, if I don't define myself that way, somebody else will and I'd like that less.

Hm, interesting. 



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sethnintendo said:
snyps said:

Sadder still is that people base their votes on the stuff these candidates say in the debates and web, rather than looking up what the candidates did on record. People believe anything. 

I'm pretty sure Biden has a better track record than Trump.

Let me see Trump University - scam, Trump Charity - scam, Several failed casinos, racist false attacks against Obama being one of the most outspoken birther, shitty ass TV show, and I can keep going on

Trump is obviously someone that no one should vote for. Biden is less obvious but still horrendous if you look at his record. 

As you stated in another post, America has had a racist prison system from the beginning. From Chinese (opium ban) railroad workers to crack cocaine having a higher prison sentence than powder cocaine. That last one is a more recent federal law that was written by everyone’s favorite white fella Good ole Joe. But as you know, that’s not the only federal law he authored, he wrote/co-wrote the 80s & 90s bills that became the current Federal crime laws. If you like the federal crime laws, you’re free to do that, but they are racist laws. It’s no coincidence that jails/prisons are mostly filled with African Americans and Mexican Americans. Now he picked a prosecutor as his VP. The irony is, he’ll have the black vote “locked up” now. 



snyps said:
sethnintendo said:

I'm pretty sure Biden has a better track record than Trump.

Let me see Trump University - scam, Trump Charity - scam, Several failed casinos, racist false attacks against Obama being one of the most outspoken birther, shitty ass TV show, and I can keep going on

Trump is obviously someone that no one should vote for. Biden is less obvious but still horrendous if you look at his record. 

As you stated in another post, America has had a racist prison system from the beginning. From Chinese (opium ban) railroad workers to crack cocaine having a higher prison sentence than powder cocaine. That last one is a more recent federal law that was written by everyone’s favorite white fella Good ole Joe. But as you know, that’s not the only federal law he authored, he wrote/co-wrote the 80s & 90s bills that became the current Federal crime laws. If you like the federal crime laws, you’re free to do that, but they are racist laws. It’s no coincidence that jails/prisons are mostly filled with African Americans and Mexican Americans. Now he picked a prosecutor as his VP. The irony is, he’ll have the black vote “locked up” now. 

Things change.

In the 80s and 90s, the prevailing school of thought was that being "tough on crime" would solve our crime problems. We have since come to understand that this is not the best way forward. As such, Biden has updated his platform to represent modern thinking, while Trump has not. The past is not the future and if you look at the difference between Biden's platform and Trump's platform regarding criminal justice and racial justice, the choice should be clear.



sundin13 said:
snyps said:

Trump is obviously someone that no one should vote for. Biden is less obvious but still horrendous if you look at his record. 

As you stated in another post, America has had a racist prison system from the beginning. From Chinese (opium ban) railroad workers to crack cocaine having a higher prison sentence than powder cocaine. That last one is a more recent federal law that was written by everyone’s favorite white fella Good ole Joe. But as you know, that’s not the only federal law he authored, he wrote/co-wrote the 80s & 90s bills that became the current Federal crime laws. If you like the federal crime laws, you’re free to do that, but they are racist laws. It’s no coincidence that jails/prisons are mostly filled with African Americans and Mexican Americans. Now he picked a prosecutor as his VP. The irony is, he’ll have the black vote “locked up” now. 

Things change.

In the 80s and 90s, the prevailing school of thought was that being "tough on crime" would solve our crime problems. We have since come to understand that this is not the best way forward. As such, Biden has updated his platform to represent modern thinking, while Trump has not. The past is not the future and if you look at the difference between Biden's platform and Trump's platform regarding criminal justice and racial justice, the choice should be clear.

Politicians lie for votes. You and everyone knows this. A person will say what ever is popular. But a person’s actions won’t change as much. If you want to get roped in by a speech and a commercial, fine. But records don’t lie. 



To me it’s having convictions that fall on both sides of the spectrum. Like you can have a conservative view on the economy (pro-capitalism) and yet have a more liberal view in social policy.



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sundin13 said:
snyps said:

Trump is obviously someone that no one should vote for. Biden is less obvious but still horrendous if you look at his record. 

As you stated in another post, America has had a racist prison system from the beginning. From Chinese (opium ban) railroad workers to crack cocaine having a higher prison sentence than powder cocaine. That last one is a more recent federal law that was written by everyone’s favorite white fella Good ole Joe. But as you know, that’s not the only federal law he authored, he wrote/co-wrote the 80s & 90s bills that became the current Federal crime laws. If you like the federal crime laws, you’re free to do that, but they are racist laws. It’s no coincidence that jails/prisons are mostly filled with African Americans and Mexican Americans. Now he picked a prosecutor as his VP. The irony is, he’ll have the black vote “locked up” now. 

Things change.

In the 80s and 90s, the prevailing school of thought was that being "tough on crime" would solve our crime problems. We have since come to understand that this is not the best way forward. As such, Biden has updated his platform to represent modern thinking, while Trump has not. The past is not the future and if you look at the difference between Biden's platform and Trump's platform regarding criminal justice and racial justice, the choice should be clear.

Crime has since skyrocketed in dem states following the initial BLM protests and subsequent police cuts. The “soft on crime” approach is equally fallible in that it creates a revolving door of people in and out of the crim justice system. Also makes it ripe for abuse. 



Xbox: Best hardware, Game Pass best value, best BC, more 1st party genres and multiplayer titles.