Forums - Politics Discussion - What's your definition of a political moderate?

How do you define a political moderate?

Someone who favors only modest changes. 5 20.83%
 
Someone who holds a comb... 19 79.17%
 
Total:24
sundin13 said:
snyps said:

If you spend your vote on a candidate who truly has the nation’s best interest in mind, who will actively bring real, positive, Constitutional change, and who adequately represents the ideals for which you stand, then you have not wasted your vote but rather invested it. I have no common ground with Biden or Trump, that’d be the real wasted vote imo. Edit: The binary choice wants to fight endless wars, make decisions for me, and increase spending. 

How will that benefit when they will inevitably get 2% of the vote? Again, if you are further left than Biden, this should be an easy choice, because one candidate will  slowly walk towards that goal, while the other will run in the opposite direction, harming millions of people along the way and making it more and more difficult for meaningful change to occur in the future.

My views are on an opposite spectrum from left/right speak. Both red and blue run further towards authoritarianism. I am for government, but how can we call ourselves The land of the free while leading the world in prison population?

25% of the US believes Trump and Biden are not fit to be president. What would happen if we voted for the people we aligned with, instead of against the person we don’t align with? It is beneficial, it has to start somewhere. 



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snyps said:
sundin13 said:

How will that benefit when they will inevitably get 2% of the vote? Again, if you are further left than Biden, this should be an easy choice, because one candidate will  slowly walk towards that goal, while the other will run in the opposite direction, harming millions of people along the way and making it more and more difficult for meaningful change to occur in the future.

My views are on an opposite spectrum from left/right speak. Both red and blue run further towards authoritarianism. I am for government, but how can we call ourselves The land of the free while leading the world in prison population?

25% of the US believes Trump and Biden are not fit to be president. What would happen if we voted for the people we aligned with, instead of against the person we don’t align with? It is beneficial, it has to start somewhere. 

You clearly have a left leaning opinion on criminal justice reform. What about climate change? What about healthcare? What about immigration? These are all things that are affecting millions of people and can have a vastly different outcome depending on who has control of our government.

As for what would happen if that 25% of the US voted for "who they aligned with", Trump would win. That is what would happen 100%. I've spoken about this before, but modern Republicans have a very "this is our guy" mindset, where they are willing to forgive anything from their guy. Democrats on the other hand tend to almost be more critical of those on their side. If we fractured the voting pool we would crash and burn into fascism. That is why we have a primary. If progressive candidates aren't able to win the primary, what makes you think that they would win the general?



sundin13 said:
snyps said:

My views are on an opposite spectrum from left/right speak. Both red and blue run further towards authoritarianism. I am for government, but how can we call ourselves The land of the free while leading the world in prison population?

25% of the US believes Trump and Biden are not fit to be president. What would happen if we voted for the people we aligned with, instead of against the person we don’t align with? It is beneficial, it has to start somewhere. 

You clearly have a left leaning opinion on criminal justice reform. What about climate change? What about healthcare? What about immigration? These are all things that are affecting millions of people and can have a vastly different outcome depending on who has control of our government.

As for what would happen if that 25% of the US voted for "who they aligned with", Trump would win. That is what would happen 100%. I've spoken about this before, but modern Republicans have a very "this is our guy" mindset, where they are willing to forgive anything from their guy. Democrats on the other hand tend to almost be more critical of those on their side. If we fractured the voting pool we would crash and burn into fascism. That is why we have a primary. If progressive candidates aren't able to win the primary, what makes you think that they would win the general?

I wouldn’t classify legalization of victimless crimes as left leaning.

I agree that climate change is a real problem but I don’t believe in fixing it with taxes. Putting a tax on companies that pollute doesn’t stop pollution, it monopolizes the industries so only the biggest can afford to operate and pay the tax (which they avoid through loopholes anyway). I’d like to see a decrease in deforestation. I’m pulling this out of my rear but have you ever noticed how cool the air is under a Forrest and have you noticed how hot it gets there after the trees are cut? 

I don’t believe immigrants take jobs. They buy things, they open new businesses, they invent new ideas. They create jobs. I don’t believe they bring over criminals, the black market brings the criminals.

I also believe in the Bill of Rights. Neither red or blue supports any of those. Peaceful protests are met with tear gas by both left and right. I understand training and requirements should be in place before owning a gun. The purpose of said gun is lost on both left and right. 

My views on healthcare are very different from Trump and Biden’s. Health insurance raised the prices of everything 1000%. We pay a fraction through copay, deductibles, premiums. With the costs so inflated, you have to buy into insurance. Before insurance (pre 1950s) Doctors were cheap as hell, medicine was cheap, their was less waiting, there was more quality time with your physician. Churches gave a portion of their collection plate to help those who couldn’t afford healthcare. 

Democrat and Republican politicians both serve the wealthiest 1%. If you look at their records it’s plainly obvious. If you listen to their words you’ll get a very different picture from reality. Edit: That’s just the way I see it, I fully understand if you or someone see this differently. 



snyps said:
sundin13 said:

You clearly have a left leaning opinion on criminal justice reform. What about climate change? What about healthcare? What about immigration? These are all things that are affecting millions of people and can have a vastly different outcome depending on who has control of our government.

As for what would happen if that 25% of the US voted for "who they aligned with", Trump would win. That is what would happen 100%. I've spoken about this before, but modern Republicans have a very "this is our guy" mindset, where they are willing to forgive anything from their guy. Democrats on the other hand tend to almost be more critical of those on their side. If we fractured the voting pool we would crash and burn into fascism. That is why we have a primary. If progressive candidates aren't able to win the primary, what makes you think that they would win the general?

I wouldn’t classify legalization of victimless crimes as left leaning.

I agree that climate change is a real problem but I don’t believe in fixing it with taxes. Putting a tax on companies that pollute doesn’t stop pollution, it monopolizes the industries so only the biggest can afford to operate and pay the tax (which they avoid through loopholes anyway). I’d like to see a decrease in deforestation. I’m pulling this out of my rear but have you ever noticed how cool the air is under a Forrest and have you noticed how hot it gets there after the trees are cut? 

I don’t believe immigrants take jobs. They buy things, they open new businesses, they invent new ideas. They create jobs. I don’t believe they bring over criminals, the black market brings the criminals.

I also believe in the Bill of Rights. Neither red or blue supports any of those. Peaceful protests are met with tear gas by both left and right. I understand training and requirements should be in place before owning a gun. The purpose of said gun is lost on both left and right. 

My views on healthcare are very different from Trump and Biden’s. Health insurance raised the prices of everything 1000%. We pay a fraction through copay, deductibles, premiums. With the costs so inflated, you have to buy into insurance. Before insurance (pre 1950s) Doctors were cheap as hell, medicine was cheap, their was less waiting, there was more quality time with your physician. Churches gave a portion of their collection plate to help those who couldn’t afford healthcare. 

Democrat and Republican politicians both serve the wealthiest 1%. If you look at their records it’s plainly obvious. If you listen to their words you’ll get a very different picture from reality. Edit: That’s just the way I see it, I fully understand if you or someone see this differently. 

I understand your perspective, but it seems like in most of these cases you fall much more in line with the left than the right. I agree that their conclusions aren't perfect, but most of politics isn't about conclusions. It is about directional movement. If you argue "we need to go 10 steps in this direction" but you are presented with one candidate who states "I will go one step in that same direction" and another which states "I will go two steps in the opposite direction", the choice should be clear. Yes, neither candidate gets you exactly where you want to be, but progress is cumulative as long as you keep fighting.

We will simply never get to that destination in one leap, especially if you allow the election of candidates who continue to go in the opposite direction and erect barriers behind them. While you can continue voting for the perfect candidate, unless they win the primaries, all you are doing is taking a vote away from slow, steady progress and if everybody did the same, again, it is highly likely that the Republicans would be more able to unite (their platform is about a lack of progress, so it is easier to unite around it), and it also opens the door for extremist groups to take power from a fractured voter base. 

I understand the logic behind your perspective, but I think your actions are fundamentally counter-intuitive. Sometimes we just have to swallow the bitter medicine. While I personally will be able to take another four years of Donald Trump, I can't help but think of the individuals who are struggling who would be better off under Biden. While he obviously wouldn't solve everyone's issues, at the very least, he will take the knee off of their necks. While I don't like voting for Biden, I simply can't square their suffering with my own morals...