Forums - Gaming Discussion - The Last of Us Part 2 has become a minefield

Mnementh said:

To change the direction: Do you think Jason Schreier got that much pushback over pretty unproblematic tweets because he uncovered earlier the bad working conditions of Naughty Dog employees (which sadly isn't that uncommon in the industry), or do you think that is purely coincidental?

Jason who? I don't follow online personalities and drama around them. Good working conditions and restricted time and budget usually don't go along in any industry, at the end of the day it's just business.



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Mnementh said:
m0ney said:

Everything?

This thread isn't about the quality or lack thereof of the game, but about an environment in which real discussion besides uncritically fawning over the game or ruthless destruction is met with paranoia and defensive behaviour. This is not a healty environment to develop the medium further. But you made your post all about the qualities of the game and putting everyone expressing even mild criticism into the box 'haters'. Which ironically proves the point of the article.

To change the direction: Do you think Jason Schreier got that much pushback over pretty unproblematic tweets because he uncovered earlier the bad working conditions of Naughty Dog employees (which sadly isn't that uncommon in the industry), or do you think that is purely coincidental?

No Neil defended a reviewer who was attacked by Jason Schreier for comparing the game to a movie, read that whole timeline and Jason acted like a petty child after being called out for his attack.



m0ney said:
Mnementh said:

To change the direction: Do you think Jason Schreier got that much pushback over pretty unproblematic tweets because he uncovered earlier the bad working conditions of Naughty Dog employees (which sadly isn't that uncommon in the industry), or do you think that is purely coincidental?

Jason who? I don't follow online personalities and drama around them. Good working conditions and restricted time and budget usually don't go along in any industry, at the end of the day it's just business.

So basically you're off-topic and you want us to know about it? What's the basic idea you're trying to express in this thread about how TLOU2 has proven to be a minefield regarding criticism in gaming and game journalism?

So far you have 3 posts:

Post 1: 

It is their story and they can do whatever the hell they want with it, they don't owe us anything, we are only passengers. Personally I loved how shocking and intriguing and moving it was. Haters can make their own game and see how successful it is, good luck, you will need it, oh and millions of $$ too.

No substance other than:

  • I don't care about the issue in OP.
  • I loved TLOU2
  • Haters (?) can make their own game (??)

Post 2: a one-word reply

Post 3:

Jason who? I don't follow online personalities and drama around them. Good working conditions and restricted time and budget usually don't go along in any industry, at the end of the day it's just business.
  • Showing no knowledge of a personality in the article linked in OP, or any concern or care
  • Talking about what Jason Schreier reported on rather than the actual question, which is about the pushback on his journalism.

It's concerning that your first post got 3 likes (?), while totally off topic, and that you show that you don't even care about OP. Why post? It's an honest question. 



m0ney said:
Mnementh said:

To change the direction: Do you think Jason Schreier got that much pushback over pretty unproblematic tweets because he uncovered earlier the bad working conditions of Naughty Dog employees (which sadly isn't that uncommon in the industry), or do you think that is purely coincidental?

Jason who? I don't follow online personalities and drama around them. Good working conditions and restricted time and budget usually don't go along in any industry, at the end of the day it's just business.

Oh wow, this is low. You accept shitty working conditions, because "it's just business"? That is so not healthy for the industry. In other areas people have unionized and fought for better working conditions. Movies for example. And that didn't affect the quality of the medium. So no, being a business isn't at all an excuse to be shitty towards your employees.



3DS-FC: 4511-1768-7903 (Mii-Name: Mnementh), Nintendo-Network-ID: Mnementh, Switch: SW-7706-3819-9381 (Mnementh)

my greatest games: 2017, 2018, 2019

Predictions: Switch / Switch vs. XB1 in the US / Three Houses first quarter

vonny said:
Mnementh said:

This thread isn't about the quality or lack thereof of the game, but about an environment in which real discussion besides uncritically fawning over the game or ruthless destruction is met with paranoia and defensive behaviour. This is not a healty environment to develop the medium further. But you made your post all about the qualities of the game and putting everyone expressing even mild criticism into the box 'haters'. Which ironically proves the point of the article.

To change the direction: Do you think Jason Schreier got that much pushback over pretty unproblematic tweets because he uncovered earlier the bad working conditions of Naughty Dog employees (which sadly isn't that uncommon in the industry), or do you think that is purely coincidental?

No Neil defended a reviewer who was attacked by Jason Schreier for comparing the game to a movie, read that whole timeline and Jason acted like a petty child after being called out for his attack.

A completely ridiculous comparison, but Jim Sterling could more eloquently point that out than me:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Wt4Q6AnhLk



3DS-FC: 4511-1768-7903 (Mii-Name: Mnementh), Nintendo-Network-ID: Mnementh, Switch: SW-7706-3819-9381 (Mnementh)

my greatest games: 2017, 2018, 2019

Predictions: Switch / Switch vs. XB1 in the US / Three Houses first quarter

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Mnementh said:

Oh wow, this is low. You accept shitty working conditions, because "it's just business"? That is so not healthy for the industry. In other areas people have unionized and fought for better working conditions. Movies for example. And that didn't affect the quality of the medium. So no, being a business isn't at all an excuse to be shitty towards your employees.

Lol so that's why movies are so shitty nowadays.

I don't accept shitty working conditions, but I have worked in IT and projects ALWAYS exceeded time limits, it is part of the business because development is unpredictable, developers always face problems that could not be planned ahead.



Visit my eBay stampers store: eims-stampers

Deus Ex (2000) - a game that pushes the boundaries of what the video game medium is capable of to a degree unmatched to this very day.

It's concerning that your first post got 3 likes (?), while totally off topic, and that you show that you don't even care about OP. Why post? It's an honest question. 

Give me a break, I had a hard day at work doing nothing, my IQ possibly dropped.



Visit my eBay stampers store: eims-stampers

Deus Ex (2000) - a game that pushes the boundaries of what the video game medium is capable of to a degree unmatched to this very day.

m0ney said:
Mnementh said:

Oh wow, this is low. You accept shitty working conditions, because "it's just business"? That is so not healthy for the industry. In other areas people have unionized and fought for better working conditions. Movies for example. And that didn't affect the quality of the medium. So no, being a business isn't at all an excuse to be shitty towards your employees.

Lol so that's why movies are so shitty nowadays.

I don't accept shitty working conditions, but I have worked in IT and projects ALWAYS exceeded time limits, it is part of the business because development is unpredictable, developers always face problems that could not be planned ahead.

I'm also working in IT, and I can say while there might be difficulties ahead, that is no excuse for crunch. You can always plan some time for unforeseen circumstances (I have made out certain percentages I add to estimates, depending on the complexity of the project to account for something I didn't see coming) and you just can delay delivery if even with that you can't get it together. But expecting your workers to shoulder the burden is not acceptable, and not "just business".



3DS-FC: 4511-1768-7903 (Mii-Name: Mnementh), Nintendo-Network-ID: Mnementh, Switch: SW-7706-3819-9381 (Mnementh)

my greatest games: 2017, 2018, 2019

Predictions: Switch / Switch vs. XB1 in the US / Three Houses first quarter

Cerebralbore101 said:
Everyone IRL knows me as the videogame guy. They keep asking me about that Last of Us game. I keep explaining to them that TLoU2 took a Game of Thrones Seasons 1-4 approach with its characters and some people are angry. They are all like.. But that's good storytelling. My boss at work specifically guessed that people got angry because you can't have two good guy characters. He said something about the duality of man being on display. Way too many gamers are salty immature complainers.

I dread to think what would happen if they take a GoT seasons 5-8 approach to TLOU3 then



Bet Shiken that COD would outsell Battlefield in 2018. http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8749702

Mnementh said:
m0ney said:

Lol so that's why movies are so shitty nowadays.

I don't accept shitty working conditions, but I have worked in IT and projects ALWAYS exceeded time limits, it is part of the business because development is unpredictable, developers always face problems that could not be planned ahead.

I'm also working in IT, and I can say while there might be difficulties ahead, that is no excuse for crunch. You can always plan some time for unforeseen circumstances (I have made out certain percentages I add to estimates, depending on the complexity of the project to account for something I didn't see coming) and you just can delay delivery if even with that you can't get it together. But expecting your workers to shoulder the burden is not acceptable, and not "just business".

It all depends on the workenvironment and how much control there is on the working conditions and who's in charge.

I had weeks working around 100 hours by my own choice while others in my same team did not even do half of that while at some places it might be forced upon people to do that many hours.It is also very important that people stick together and i have even forced my bosses in paying extra bonusses for working overtime that way.

When those on the top are egomaniacs(when they think an argument involves them doing anything wrong they just stop listening and start pointing fingers) it ofcourse makes everything difficult and that might be a more frequent thing in the gaming industry.