Forums - Politics Discussion - Who do you think will win the 2020 election, Trump or Biden?

Who do you think will win the 2020 election

Trump 34 45.95%
 
Biden 40 54.05%
 
Total:74

Neither of them. The ones laughing behind the scenes are the true winners. God Bless America!



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EnricoPallazzo said:
d21lewis said:
I'm voting for Biden but Trump is going to win. Partly because Democrats aren't going to show up. Partly because the left is way too extreme at times. People want things to be better but fear radical change. As batshit insane as it's been during Trump's years as president, his fanbase is comfortable. At times, a little too comfortable...

Just curious, what is your opinion on the fact that out of a few really good options, the democrats choose a guy that is a white male, a politician for decades and most of all, seems to be senile? It seems to me a terrible choice, a debate of him vs trump will be a massacre. Personally I believe Tulsi and the Asian guy were very interesting options with real good chances of moving the masses against trump.

The same reason people chose Biden is the same reason people chose Hilary and Trump as their nominee. It's no longer about who is the best person for the job or even who makes the best impression. It's about who can win the vote. A popularity contest. Regardless of which candidate was better for the job, Joe Biden was the one who was going to be chosen because of his association with Obama. I personally don't care about the race, gender, etc. 

Biden would have beaten Trump last election. I think Hilary would have won if not for the last second email scandal. Biden could win this time but he keeps fucking up. I look forward to the debates but it feels like a no win situation.



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EnricoPallazzo said:
vivster said:

I guess if your benchmark for democracy is the most corrupted countries in the world and what skin color a president can have the US really does look good in comparison.

However if we look at their own massive corruption, broken judicial system, voter suppression, a significant amount of anti democratic politicians and the simple fact that certain votes do not count it's actually really far at the bottom. Though in my opinion the US should not even be legally allowed to call itself a democracy. Democracy is just a little more than people having the right to vote and the US cannot even climb that low bar.

You are basically expecting a perfect world, which doesnt exist anywhere. Even nordic countries have all those problems you mentioned above, yet they do not fail to be democracies. 

The beauty of a democracy is this, you can change it with your vote, your protest, something that we will never find in capitalist or socialist dictatorships.

False equivilancy seems to be the US citizen's favorite tool in deflecting criticism.

A good democracy is already lived in some European states. Let's take Germany since that's where I'm from. It has none of the issues I mentioned, or at least not as systemic or widespread. There are no anti democratic policies in our system and every vote actually counts. It's not perfect, but it's about 90% of what could be called a perfect democracy, while the US is somewhere around 10%, which is why I find it extremely insulting when the US is called a democracy, let alone a good one. I wanted to list all the terrible things but that would be way too long for people to actually read it. I know it probably looks fine when you live there and don't know anything about proper democracies. Let me just tell you that certain policies in the US system are downright insane and antithetical to what is considered a real democracy.

You say the beauty of democracy is the ability to change. Well, the system in the US is specifically designed to suppress change, which is why nothing does and there is only very little hope that it ever will. So yeah, not really a democracy.



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Dulfite said:
The debates will change everything. Democrats have intelligently kept Biden in the basement away from any hostile press for months now. But the debates will be a gaffe fest like nothing we've seen before, I feel. If this was Biden from 15 years ago it would be one thing, but the man clearly has been going downhill with mental health issues. I'm truly shocked Democrats haven't replaced him with another moderate that is healthier.

By the way I'm saying this seriously. I would HATE to see my family member embarrass himself on a national stage. I would be curious about it! Let the poor man retire for crying out loud. He's lost so much!

If Biden is at the debates, then I think Trump will win electoral college again because of the Rust belt. It's going to be insane. Trump has his own physical issues and is clearly an egomaniac, but that's nothing compared to someone not remembering who they are, what they are running for, who the President is, and other things that have been clearly caught on video.

Biden was in dozens of debates during the primary and he did just fine.  He isn’t a great debater, but he holds his own.  He really isn’t any worse at verbal slips then he was 40 years ago, he has always had slips when speaking publicly.  Which is not a weird thing.  Happens to lots of people.  Happens to me all the time as a teacher talking to my class.  This whole Biden being senile or having dementia is a trump creation.  It isn’t true.  

The debates are gonna be trump up there throwing out conspiracy theories and basically being a douche and Biden trying to be the adult in the room.  Trumps base will love the insults and believe every word... because they want to.  That’s the problem with partisanship, the more partisan you get the more close minded you get. 

I think there are enough people tired of trumps act they vote him out this year.   I guess we will see though.



vivster said:
EnricoPallazzo said:

You are basically expecting a perfect world, which doesnt exist anywhere. Even nordic countries have all those problems you mentioned above, yet they do not fail to be democracies. 

The beauty of a democracy is this, you can change it with your vote, your protest, something that we will never find in capitalist or socialist dictatorships.

False equivilancy seems to be the US citizen's favorite tool in deflecting criticism.

A good democracy is already lived in some European states. Let's take Germany since that's where I'm from. It has none of the issues I mentioned, or at least not as systemic or widespread. There are no anti democratic policies in our system and every vote actually counts. It's not perfect, but it's about 90% of what could be called a perfect democracy, while the US is somewhere around 10%, which is why I find it extremely insulting when the US is called a democracy, let alone a good one. I wanted to list all the terrible things but that would be way too long for people to actually read it. I know it probably looks fine when you live there and don't know anything about proper democracies. Let me just tell you that certain policies in the US system are downright insane and antithetical to what is considered a real democracy.

You say the beauty of democracy is the ability to change. Well, the system in the US is specifically designed to suppress change, which is why nothing does and there is only very little hope that it ever will. So yeah, not really a democracy.

10%? Really? Alright then.



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EnricoPallazzo said:
vivster said:

All we can hope is that one day they'll elect someone who brings democracy to the country.

US seems to be extremely democratic for me, there is usually a balance between Republicans and Democrats in power, you even had a black president for 8 years. Definitely way ahead of so many countries in Latin America for example that call them democracies.

Unless the result is not the one you wish for.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Index#Democracy_Index_by_country_2019

US is ranked 25th as a "Flawed Democracy", behind Canada, the UK, Denmark, Norway, New Zealand and many more countries considered "Full Democracies" by the Democracy Index.



Trump can barely make a sentence without rambling and Biden is the senile one? I find it a really weird angle of attack from the Trump camp. It's a "throwing rocks in a glass house" kind of situation. Although thinking about it, Trump is a master at projection, pretty everything he's accused people of doing, he's done it himself.



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How quickly people seem to have forgotten that George W. Bush made Biden and Trump both look like master orators. He was still elected. Twice.



EnricoPallazzo said:
Dulfite said:
The debates will change everything. Democrats have intelligently kept Biden in the basement away from any hostile press for months now. But the debates will be a gaffe fest like nothing we've seen before, I feel. If this was Biden from 15 years ago it would be one thing, but the man clearly has been going downhill with mental health issues. I'm truly shocked Democrats haven't replaced him with another moderate that is healthier.

By the way I'm saying this seriously. I would HATE to see my family member embarrass himself on a national stage. I would be curious about it! Let the poor man retire for crying out loud. He's lost so much!

If Biden is at the debates, then I think Trump will win electoral college again because of the Rust belt. It's going to be insane. Trump has his own physical issues and is clearly an egomaniac, but that's nothing compared to someone not remembering who they are, what they are running for, who the President is, and other things that have been clearly caught on video.

Not mentioning loves sniffing kids, has a sexual scandal being ignored by media since he is a democrat and has family involved in the Ucrania scandal.

Really, I dont get it. Sometimes I think it was more a move to get Sanders out of the game or fears of delivering the party to a marxist.

Yeah he has been lying about things for decades dating back (at least) to when he flat out told a group of reporters about his college degree, what class ranking he was, etc. and then they fact-checked that all that information was wrong. There are a LOT of flaws against him, but I didn't really want to address that. I'm more concerned about his mental health and wellbeing and how he could handle the toughest job on Earth than I am about him being terrible. We can deal with "bad/evil" leaders, but it's pretty hard to deal with leaders that literally don't know where they are or what is going on. I'd rather have a Kim Jung Un or Nebuchadnezzar (pre mental illness) for a leader than a King George III or Nebuchadnezzar (during mental illness). Bad is more tolerable than "lost his mind."



gergroy said:
Dulfite said:
The debates will change everything. Democrats have intelligently kept Biden in the basement away from any hostile press for months now. But the debates will be a gaffe fest like nothing we've seen before, I feel. If this was Biden from 15 years ago it would be one thing, but the man clearly has been going downhill with mental health issues. I'm truly shocked Democrats haven't replaced him with another moderate that is healthier.

By the way I'm saying this seriously. I would HATE to see my family member embarrass himself on a national stage. I would be curious about it! Let the poor man retire for crying out loud. He's lost so much!

If Biden is at the debates, then I think Trump will win electoral college again because of the Rust belt. It's going to be insane. Trump has his own physical issues and is clearly an egomaniac, but that's nothing compared to someone not remembering who they are, what they are running for, who the President is, and other things that have been clearly caught on video.

Biden was in dozens of debates during the primary and he did just fine.  He isn’t a great debater, but he holds his own.  He really isn’t any worse at verbal slips then he was 40 years ago, he has always had slips when speaking publicly.  Which is not a weird thing.  Happens to lots of people.  Happens to me all the time as a teacher talking to my class.  This whole Biden being senile or having dementia is a trump creation.  It isn’t true.  

The debates are gonna be trump up there throwing out conspiracy theories and basically being a douche and Biden trying to be the adult in the room.  Trumps base will love the insults and believe every word... because they want to.  That’s the problem with partisanship, the more partisan you get the more close minded you get. 

I think there are enough people tired of trumps act they vote him out this year.   I guess we will see though.

I watched almost all the debates, at least in part. It was mostly a "whose got the bigger stick" fight between Warren and Sanders and the same kind of fight between the moderates while Biden remained pretty quiet. It wasn't until it was just him and Sanders where he got enough air time to say things, and even then that was a short period and wasn't in front of a live audience. If Biden goes one on one with Trump in front of a live crowd, it's going to be a massacre I think.

As far as slips goes, he makes WAAAY more than any other politician I've studied and I've been pretty obsessed with politics (any party, even minor ones and international like UK, Canadian, German, Australian in particular) for many years now. I taught for 4 years prior to this school year and I too made slips, but not like this guy. Saying this legitimate viewpoint is simply a fabrication for a political party you may not agree with doesn't help create an atmosphere for a rational discussion, by the way. I would not say "This whole Trump being a narcissist is a Biden creation. It isn't true," to you because I believe in respecting viewpoints. You can disagree with a viewpoint without describing it like it's a conspiracy theory and thereby alienating said viewpoint's holders from a quality discussion.

And I don't believe Biden will hold any kind of responsible attitude. He lit into his fellow democrats on live stage with anger and quite a bit of rudeness for far less accusations being thrown his way than he will get from Trump. If he got that angry with likeminded people in front of millions watching, how angry will he get with Trump who isn't likeminded at all and will say far more insulting things? Biden himself said he'd like to take Trump into a locker room to beat him up. The debates are going to be FILLED with insults from both of them.

And you may be right, Trump may get voted out. Historically speaking it is unlikely due to patterns and movements dating back to the early 1900's, but maybe that pattern will end (or at least have an outlier this year). 

For me, personally, I don't think I'll ever have "my kind of candidate" win again. I prefer a little government Republican like Mike Huckabee in 2007-2008 (or what George W. Bush was supposed to be) that leaves most decisions up to the states, but those kind of Republicans can't win national elections. The only ones that can I think win national elections now are these more populist Republicans like Trump. I personally hope Nikkie Haley is the republican nominee in 2024, that's a person I could vote for (at least for now).