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Forums - Gaming Discussion - 8th Gen to 9th Gen: Visual Analysis Thread

Shiken said:

The visual leap so far is rsrher unimpressive, but I always expected that. Of course it will be a while till we see the new consoles pushed as well.

I expect most significant changes to involve better AI, physics, little to no load times, etc. This generational lead will feature more potential gameplay innovations, but less impressive visual impact. There is an upgrade for sure, but mostly in a way that it will be most noticeable in a still shot or if you are really trying to pick things out. Not trying to downplay the technical aspect, but to the naked eye they just look like sharper PS4 Pro games with a few added details here and there that will go unnoticed in motion. Doing away with pop up will probably be the biggest and most significant visual improvement IMO.

That is fine, because we are reaching diminishing returns with overal visual fidelity as a whole.  There is still a ton of potential in other areas however to look forward to.

This is only early generation and its damn impressive already. If you haven't watched the 4k trailer streams I suggest you should, the 1080P 30fps stream was hot garbage.

Can't imagine what Naughtydog and Santa Monica can do with the PS5.

Last edited by hinch - on 13 June 2020

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CGI-Quality said:
hinch said:
Massive difference in geometric details especially in the hair. What baffles me in Horizon and R@c is the geometry in the characters. You can barely make out polygonal edges.

Even in the foliage in the Horizon Forbidden west. And the density of it all put on top.

Those were some of the leaps I promised were coming too (hopefully, people believe in me now ). Horizon specifically, look at the foliage/trees texture mapping and their density. All things that could not have been accomplished with such finesse on current gen machines. And remember, it's just the beginning. 

Shiken said:

Oh you misunderstand!  I am not trying to imply that games like Horizon could run on a PS4.  I am simply saying that the visual leap to the human eye is less impressive, even on my 4k TV.  It has nothing to do with technical aspects that explain why a game could/could not run on a gen 8 machine, but more to do with the diminishing returns of visual leaps from gen to gen as a whole.  I meant that it LOOKS like a sharper PS4 Pro game with a few added details that will go unnoticed in motion, not that the game could in fact run on a PS4.

Not to mention, with Horizon in particular, I am sure there are some new physics related things that will even further prevent it from being played on a gen 8 machine.

The idea of diminishing returns is also a slippery slope (at least right now), because what we've just seen was effortless and still the jump is apparent. They haven't even scratched the surface (though they are taking advantage of the hardware). What went into these games is nothing compared to what will go into later ones, where the visual/technical aspects will make even these early games look vastly outdated. 

We'll reach the climax of diminish returns when the effort is not met with the appropriate response. These games still floored plenty of people, even if there are those who don't see much of a difference (or look for said details).

As I always try to tell people, they don't put in what is assumed they do, and as each gen comes along, they won't have to. But, the weight of diminishing returns are inevitable and will be reach some day. 

Well when I talk diminishing returns, you just have to look at how dramatic each generational leap has been under the same circumstances of minimal effort.

PS1 to PS2 was massive.

PS2 to PS3 was also massive.

PS3 to PS4 was less massive, and no where near what the previous two had been.  It was still however, very noticeable with time.

PS4 to PS5 looks barely different at all to me, and many others.

There is no denying that diminishing returns is happening, and at a very fast rate.  Now of course later in the gen, the leap will be more apparent.  But for the first few years of the console, I don't expect much.  Especially with what I have seen thus far.  And that is cool with me, because at this point I am more interested in the other innovations the new tech will offer.



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trunkswd said:
I do see improvements between the two, but it isn't a leap that Sony has been hyping up. I know every generation it usually takes two to three years before we see games that are a huge leap compared to the previous generation. The Hellblade 2 trailer is still the best next generation game I've seen. Yes I know it was just a trailer and not actual gameplay, but it is the closest I've come to saying "wow!".

In fairness to Sony, they've hyped it up far less than I have :)

And, the reason is obvious, I have much less to lose if I am wrong (I'm not) than they do. And yes, Hellblade will look mostly like that, but it is also further off than many of the games Sony showed (its development has shifted to UE5, for example). They also put those details all into Senua so you could say "wow"! It was a successful way to let folks know what is coming and was rendered in 4K during the stream (watch Sony's trailers in 4K, as the difference is night-and-day). 



                                                                                                                                                           

CGI-Quality said:
hinch said:
Massive difference in geometric details especially in the hair. What baffles me in Horizon and R@c is the geometry in the characters. You can barely make out polygonal edges.

Even in the foliage in the Horizon Forbidden west. And the density of it all put on top.

Those were some of the leaps I promised were coming too (hopefully, people believe in me now ). Horizon specifically, look at the foliage/trees texture mapping and their density. All things that could not have been accomplished with such finesse on current gen machines. And remember, it's just the beginning. 

Yeah, its crazy. Way more than I expected. I expect people to be blown away when games of that scale/caliber come launch.

I didn't even expect raytracing in PS5 games this early and yet its apparent in some of the titles in the show.



Shiken said:
CGI-Quality said:

~ snip. 

Well when I talk diminishing returns, you just have to look at how dramatic each generational leap has been under the same circumstances of minimal effort.

PS1 to PS2 was massive.

PS2 to PS3 was also massive.

PS3 to PS4 was less massive, and no where near what the previous two had been.  It was still however, very noticeable with time.

PS4 to PS5 looks barely different at all to me, and many others.

There is no denying that diminishing returns is happening, and at a very fast rate.  Now of course later in the gen, the leap will be more apparent.  But for the first few years of the console, I don't expect much.  Especially with what I have seen thus far.  And that is cool with me, because at this point I am more interested in the other innovations the new tech will offer.

Ironically, plenty of folks thought the jump from PS3 to PS4 was also not every big either. There will always be those who don't see much difference and plenty who do. Diminishing returns are about what goes in and comes out than what is perceived.

As of right now, no, we haven't even gotten close to the gains being comfortably diminished. Yes, it is happening (though not quite a fast rate), but we have a ways to go before we cannot put in the work to make those jumps apparent.

Last edited by CGI-Quality - on 13 June 2020

                                                                                                                                                           

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CGI-Quality said:
Shiken said:

Well when I talk diminishing returns, you just have to look at how dramatic each generational leap has been under the same circumstances of minimal effort.

PS1 to PS2 was massive.

PS2 to PS3 was also massive.

PS3 to PS4 was less massive, and no where near what the previous two had been.  It was still however, very noticeable with time.

PS4 to PS5 looks barely different at all to me, and many others.

There is no denying that diminishing returns is happening, and at a very fast rate.  Now of course later in the gen, the leap will be more apparent.  But for the first few years of the console, I don't expect much.  Especially with what I have seen thus far.  And that is cool with me, because at this point I am more interested in the other innovations the new tech will offer.

Ironically, plenty of folks thought the jump from PS3 to PS4 was also not every big either. There will always be those who don't see much difference and plenty who do (no different this time, either). Diminishing returns is more about what goes in and comes out than what is perceived.

As of right now, no, we haven't even gotten close to the gains being diminished. Yes, it is happening (though not a fast rate) and we have a ways to go before we cannot put in the work to make those jumps apparent.

Plenty of people already feeling the leap from PS3 to PS4 was too small is kind of my point, and this looks even smaller to the naked eye this time around.  I am speaking strictly from a perspective standpoint afterall.  I have already said several times I am not speaking technically nor am I including the other innovations that will make this new gen more relevant.

As the title says visual analysis, I only see a need to give my opinion based on visual perspective from what I saw in the 4k streams.



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Shiken said:
CGI-Quality said:

Ironically, plenty of folks thought the jump from PS3 to PS4 was also not every big either. There will always be those who don't see much difference and plenty who do (no different this time, either). Diminishing returns is more about what goes in and comes out than what is perceived.

As of right now, no, we haven't even gotten close to the gains being diminished. Yes, it is happening (though not a fast rate) and we have a ways to go before we cannot put in the work to make those jumps apparent.

Plenty of people already feeling the leap from PS3 to PS4 was too small is kind of my point, and this looks even smaller to the naked eye.  I am speaking strictly from a perspective standpoint afterall.  I have already said several times I am not speaking technically nor am I including the other innovations that will make this new gen more relevant.

As the title says visual analysis, I only see a need to give my opinion based on visual perspective from what I saw in the 4k streams.

I realize that you are giving your opinion — I just respectfully disagree. :)

OT:

To everyone who watched the trailer, this was one of those "wow" moments for me. Not God of War III wow, but I was floored, nonetheless (even though I knew what was to come). 



                                                                                                                                                           

Character models will obviously always improve until they look 1:1 like a real human but the differences aren't that "important" anymore. It's not like going from a character looking like a stick to something better. Ok, facial movement is still something which needs a big push.

Where I still expect an improvement which does look as good as the one from PS3 to PS4 is the environment. Maybe it will be an even greater looking step with better lighting and better hardware to handle big landscapes.

Edit: or looking at the pic above me, it's time that not only the main "characters" will look good but also all the little stuff which isn't the main part of the game. Like all the animals or audience in a sports game.  



CGI-Quality said:
trunkswd said:
I do see improvements between the two, but it isn't a leap that Sony has been hyping up. I know every generation it usually takes two to three years before we see games that are a huge leap compared to the previous generation. The Hellblade 2 trailer is still the best next generation game I've seen. Yes I know it was just a trailer and not actual gameplay, but it is the closest I've come to saying "wow!".

In fairness to Sony, they've hyped it up far less than I have :)

And, the reason is obvious, I have much less to lose if I am wrong (I'm not) than they do. And yes, Hellblade will look mostly like that, but it is also further off than many of the games Sony showed (its development has shifted to UE5, for example). They also put those details all into Senua so you could say "wow"! It was a successful way to let folks know what is coming and was rendered in 4K during the stream (watch Sony's trailers in 4K, as the difference is night-and-day). 

I guess you've hyped it up more than Sony or Microsoft. You are our CGI guy  



VGChartz Sales Analyst and Writer - William D'Angelo - I stream on Twitch and have my own YoutubeFollow me on Twitter @TrunksWD.

Writer of the Gap Charts | Weekly Hardware Breakdown Top 10 | Weekly Sales Analysis | Marketshare Features, as well as daily news on the Video Game Industry.

trunkswd said:
CGI-Quality said:

In fairness to Sony, they've hyped it up far less than I have :)

And, the reason is obvious, I have much less to lose if I am wrong (I'm not) than they do. And yes, Hellblade will look mostly like that, but it is also further off than many of the games Sony showed (its development has shifted to UE5, for example). They also put those details all into Senua so you could say "wow"! It was a successful way to let folks know what is coming and was rendered in 4K during the stream (watch Sony's trailers in 4K, as the difference is night-and-day). 

I guess you've hyped it up more than Sony or Microsoft. You are our CGI guy  

Honestly, it is hard not being able to share more or convey just the strict science of it, but I do what I do because I love it and watching a formula come to life is really why. I can't fault folks for missing the jumps many of the tech people see, because yes, we'll never quite be at a PS1-PS2/PS2-PS3 situation again. But, there is still so much work to be done and the kind of worlds that are going to be rendered this time around won't simply be a visual jump and little else.

Just remember this word: D E N S I T Y