Forums - Gaming Discussion - MS Executive says Devs will need to learn how to work around Slower SSD on XSX

Snoopy said:
DonFerrari said:

Who said you need to sacrifice GPU/CPU for SSD?

Sony, that is why the PS5 CPU/GPU is weak.

PS5 GPU is just 18% less processing power than Xbox SX. IS not big , it's even smaller than PS4 to Xbox One (38 % different) or even Xbox One X to PS4 pro (42.8 %) . 

XBox SX has slightly tiny better advantage on GPU over PS5. 



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Moren said:
DonFerrari said:

https://www.vgchartz.com/article/443871/microsoft-executive-devs-will-learn-to-address-xbox-series-x-ssd-slower-loading-times-when-compared-to-ps5/

And that even ignores that I/O isn't just for loading times.

So even MS is acknowledging the advantage of Sony while Sony won't say devs need to learn how to do a game on weaker GPU/CPU.

Just because Sony doesn't say it, it doesn't mean it isn't a fact.

Sure, and devs have been working on power discrepancy forever, still Sony doesn't need to damage control over it. Same as they didn't need to say they also would receive games on MS presentation, still MS needed to talk about the SSD being slower and that UE5 would run on XSX as well.

MS Still thinks their loss this gen was due to being weaker.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

I really don't understand why LOD, or whatever UE5's equivalent of LOD is, can't just be used instead of putting in a ~2 second elevator ride.



Trunkin said:

I really don't understand why LOD, or whatever UE5's equivalent of LOD is, can't just be used instead of putting in a ~2 second elevator ride.

That is because the exec don't really understand game development.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Snoopy said:
DonFerrari said:

Complain with the executive. You also said XSX would run the same UE5 demo at 4k60fps and I'm still waiting for your reasoning on how it would achieve it.

Also it isn't only open world games that will benefit from it (and a lot of the AAA games nowadays are more open world game inspired than anything).

GPU and CPU on xbox one series x is more powerful. As I stated before, Forza horizon 4 already prove you can stream 4k assets at a fast rate on xbox one x, so the ssd won't be a problem.

I still does not make it a better performer, from what we hear right now it actually seems to perform worse. CPU on the ps5 isn't handling decompression or audio either, so there goes that 100MHz multithread advantage.



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Snoopy said:
Xxain said:

Devil May Cry V and Final Fantasy 7 Remake both have irritating load times. Simple example how a faster SSD can benefit non open world games. 

Xbox series x SSD will be more than sufficient for those games. You don't need to sacrafice CPU/GPU for SSD when most games won't take full advantage of it.

That will be all up to console sales and which platform 3rd party developers will be targeting as the base platform. Sony's SSD doesn't just make games load faster, it's also there to make development much easier. If they still need to use tricks like elevator rides on the Series X version, that whole benefit of easier to develop for is kinda lost. We'll see but we already know UE5's core features were practically designed around Sony's SSD tech.

Personally I do think we're not going to see much difference in most 3rd party games, unless Series X sales really completely bomb. But Sony's exclusives should stand out quite a bit, though.



goopy20 said:
Snoopy said:

Xbox series x SSD will be more than sufficient for those games. You don't need to sacrafice CPU/GPU for SSD when most games won't take full advantage of it.

That will be all up to console sales and which platform 3rd party developers will be targeting as the base platform. Sony's SSD doesn't just make games load faster, it's also there to make development much easier. If they still need to use tricks like elevator rides on the Series X version, that whole benefit of easier to develop for is kinda lost. We'll see but we already know UE5's core features were practically designed around Sony's SSD tech.

Personally I do think we're not going to see much difference in most 3rd party games, unless Series X sales really completely bomb. But Sony's exclusives should stand out quite a bit, though.

They won't.

Everyone can ignore this poorly thought out quote from the executive. a 2x difference in speed is not going to equate to elevator vs no elevator, it'll be level of detail and pop in. Just as the PS5's CPU/GPU shortfalls will not result in graphical features missing but lower resolution targets when the hardware is being stressed and less fps stability when the CPU is being stressed. 




Otter said:
goopy20 said:

That will be all up to console sales and which platform 3rd party developers will be targeting as the base platform. Sony's SSD doesn't just make games load faster, it's also there to make development much easier. If they still need to use tricks like elevator rides on the Series X version, that whole benefit of easier to develop for is kinda lost. We'll see but we already know UE5's core features were practically designed around Sony's SSD tech.

Personally I do think we're not going to see much difference in most 3rd party games, unless Series X sales really completely bomb. But Sony's exclusives should stand out quite a bit, though.

They won't.

Everyone can ignore this poorly thought out quote from the executive. a 2x difference in speed is not going to equate to elevator vs no elevator, it'll be level of detail and pop in. Just as the PS5's CPU/GPU shortfalls will not result in graphical features missing but lower resolution targets when the hardware is being stressed and less fps stability when the CPU is being stressed. 


We don't really know to be honest. I mean could that specific UE5 demo have run on Series X as well? I would've thought so, but after reading this quote from a MS exec, I'm starting to have my doubts. All we know for certain is that Sony has shown Spider man with zero loading times and we've seen State of Decay loading in 10 seconds. I also think Sony wouldn't have put so much effort in their SSD tech if it would just mean a bit less pop-in and load a couple of seconds faster. They practically build their whole console around it and are convinced it's the key to the next generation, which a lot of developers seem to be agreeing with.

It wouldn't surprise me if MS releases a mid-gen Series XXL with a faster SSD.



goopy20 said:
Otter said:

They won't.

Everyone can ignore this poorly thought out quote from the executive. a 2x difference in speed is not going to equate to elevator vs no elevator, it'll be level of detail and pop in. Just as the PS5's CPU/GPU shortfalls will not result in graphical features missing but lower resolution targets when the hardware is being stressed and less fps stability when the CPU is being stressed. 


We don't really know to be honest. I mean could that specific UE5 demo have run on Series X as well? I would've thought so, but after reading this quote from a MS exec, I'm starting to have my doubts. All we know for certain is that Sony has shown Spider man with zero loading times and we've seen State of Decay loading in 10 seconds. I also think Sony wouldn't have put so much effort in their SSD tech if it would just mean a bit less pop-in and load a couple of seconds faster. They practically build their whole console around it and are convinced it's the key to the next generation, which a lot of developers seem to be agreeing with.

It wouldn't surprise me if MS releases a mid-gen Series XXL with a faster SSD.

SoD2 loaded the entire game in 7 seconds with zero optimization done to increase the SSD benefit, it was simply the result of installing the game on the XSX SSD. Spider-Man was a tech demo of the game with no character. Not really an apple to apple comparison and not surprisingly you're incorrect on the time it took the XSX to load the game.



LudicrousSpeed said:
goopy20 said:

We don't really know to be honest. I mean could that specific UE5 demo have run on Series X as well? I would've thought so, but after reading this quote from a MS exec, I'm starting to have my doubts. All we know for certain is that Sony has shown Spider man with zero loading times and we've seen State of Decay loading in 10 seconds. I also think Sony wouldn't have put so much effort in their SSD tech if it would just mean a bit less pop-in and load a couple of seconds faster. They practically build their whole console around it and are convinced it's the key to the next generation, which a lot of developers seem to be agreeing with.

It wouldn't surprise me if MS releases a mid-gen Series XXL with a faster SSD.

SoD2 loaded the entire game in 7 seconds with zero optimization done to increase the SSD benefit, it was simply the result of installing the game on the XSX SSD. Spider-Man was a tech demo of the game with no character. Not really an apple to apple comparison and not surprisingly you're incorrect on the time it took the XSX to load the game.

The SSD isn't just there for faster loading times, it's supposed to change core level design as we know it, get rid off elevator rides and make game development much easier. A MS exec has now literally said developers need to use "tricks" to overcome the gap in throughput on Series X. It simply means either both versions will still have elevator rides, or they'll have to make changes to the core level design on Series X if ps5 is being targeted as the base platform. Maybe nobody will notice the difference, maybe they will. That we don't know yet.

Both consoles have it strengths and weaknesses in specific areas and it will be up to developers which platform's strengths they'll prioritize. Like always, that's a simple matter of which one has the biggest install base and can potentially sell the biggest numbers. This gen we're seeing multiplatform games outsell 3 or 4:1 on ps4, so there's that. But I guess we'll see.