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Forums - Gaming Discussion - MS Executive says Devs will need to learn how to work around Slower SSD on XSX

LudicrousSpeed said:
goopy20 said:

What does the logo and the controller have to do with how the press responded to the actual ps5 games? Ratchet & Clank simply did things that we haven't seen before on that kind of scale. That's why the general public and sites like DF were excited over it. If you don't agree then just show me 1 example of a game that does anything like it. On the flip side, show me one game during Series X's reveal that doesn't look like it could be on current gen? 

Who said anything about the press? You said general consensus and “the masses”. Seems like the opposite of the gaming press but hey, that’s what happens when you’re shifting the goal posts constantly. You mentioned the “feel” of next gen games, I’m just pointing out that even when Sony had only showed a logo, people were going crazy. Of course they’re going to go crazy when actual games are shown.

I already told you multiple times Ratchet was impressive. What words exactly are you looking for me to say here? Let me know what will make you feel better. I already mentioned games that have you shifting to other worlds or levels, and I admitted they are on a smaller scale because PS5 has better specs. So are you again saying true next gen means it just looks better and has bigger scale? Because as others have pointed out, you have months worth of posts showing otherwise.

Also how do you feel about some of the most impressive looking stuff being cross gen, that has to sting after your XSX crusade.

Press, the masses whatever man. Anyone, including my half blind granny could give games like Ratchet & Clank and HFW one look and tell the leap from current gen. It has nothing to do with "feeling", its supposed to be about what people see on the screen. "Feeling" is the word Phil Spencer used when he said "it is challenging to demonstrate the true leap that the Xbox Series X will provide over the Xbox One because people need to "feel" the 60fps." 

Not really sure which cross gen games you're talking about. There were a couple of cool ones but it were obviously HFW and Ratchet & Clank that got people exited about next gen. Doesn't mean they'll be better games than something like Little Devil inside, but next gen games is typically what people want to see when a new console gets announced. 

Last edited by goopy20 - on 16 June 2020

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AsGryffynn said:

Seems you are unaware that PC already has SSDs faster than the PS5 one. They are just incredibly expensive. 

The SSD throughput upgrade of the XsX and PS5 are only one piece of the puzzle. The one that really changes the game is the custom I/O, causing consoles to be ahead for once vs PC due to the hardware being designed almost exclusively for gaming.



goopy20 said:
LudicrousSpeed said:

Who said anything about the press? You said general consensus and “the masses”. Seems like the opposite of the gaming press but hey, that’s what happens when you’re shifting the goal posts constantly. You mentioned the “feel” of next gen games, I’m just pointing out that even when Sony had only showed a logo, people were going crazy. Of course they’re going to go crazy when actual games are shown.

I already told you multiple times Ratchet was impressive. What words exactly are you looking for me to say here? Let me know what will make you feel better. I already mentioned games that have you shifting to other worlds or levels, and I admitted they are on a smaller scale because PS5 has better specs. So are you again saying true next gen means it just looks better and has bigger scale? Because as others have pointed out, you have months worth of posts showing otherwise.

Also how do you feel about some of the most impressive looking stuff being cross gen, that has to sting after your XSX crusade.

Press, the masses whatever man. Anyone, including my half blind granny could give games like Ratchet & Clank and HFW one look and tell the difference from current gen, and nobody would have to explain her why. It has nothing to do with "feeling", its supposed to be about what people see on the screen. "Feeling" is the word Phil Spencer used when he said it is challenging to demonstrate the true leap that the Xbox Series X will provide over the Xbox One because people need to "feel" the 60fps. I know you'll say I'm placing Phil's quote out of context but that is exactly what happened during the Series X event when nothing they showed looked like a true leap over current gen. 

Not really sure which cross gen games you're talking about. There were a couple of cool ones but it were obviously HFW and Ratchet & Clank that got people exited about next gen. Doesn't mean they'll be better games than something like Little Devil inside, but next gen games is typically what people want to see when a new console gets announced. 

You’re the one who said PS5 games “felt next gen” and that’s why it got a lot of buzz. I’m just letting you know even a logo got a ton of buzz and there was nothing “next gen” about it. Not going to argue in circles over the rest, your definition of true next gen will change in a week anyway.



Let's drop the underhanded attacks/jabs at goopy, it's not forwarding a conversation.
People are allowed to change views, if anything that is a good character trait, changing views as new evidence or information comes available is a highly important skill, so argue the points that are presented, not with the user themselves.

Cheers.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

goopy20 said:

Pretty sure this would not be possible on 360 lol, at least not without ruining the whole effect.

Obviously there's more to the ps5 than just the SSD, but we saw like 3 games where inter-dimensional travel seemed to be a core gameplay mechanic. Ratchet & Clank, Returnal and Dead Loop. My guess is that's because the developers went out of their way to use the SSD as some kind of tech-demo. If that'll make the gameplay better is another matter, but I definitely believe SSD will end up being the biggest leap compared to current gen.

With early games, developers are typically just testing the water when it comes to new tech, but hopefully it'll change the sense scale and immersion of games in more meaningful ways later on.   

I don't want to sound like a sad apple however what was shown in the demo looked scripted to me. We don't actually see the character free roam the worlds his transitioning through. We see the backgrounds change and that ratchet landing on a ship level.. The game looks impressive however background changing doesn't need the super fast SSD in the PS5 to achieve. 

Now before people jump me, let me say, Ratchet and Clank looked very impressive and I am sure it will be a great game but I need to see more footage of the characters actually interacting with the worlds his flying through rather him just flying through different screens.



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DonFerrari said:
sales2099 said:
Please jump in if I’m off because I am not a technical guy. My impression is that the Xbox ssd is slower but still competent at its job. Asset loading and general load times would just be seconds longer, no big deal.

Wouldn’t the PS5 ssd be hindered more overall in multiplat development due to common denominators like non ssd PC versions?

On multiplats really most of the difference shall be loading times and better textures for PS5 and more pixels or framerate stability for xbox. Unless we get a couple of devs that are harder worker and will put both consoles advantages to better use.

Not sure if its that simple Don.. From what I am hearing, the RT Tech in the XSX might make a bigger splash than the one in the PS5, and considering the XSX offers more powerful hardware across the board it might be more than just pixels and framerates, but maybe better lighting, shading and higher textures etc. The PS5 will offer quicker load times and faster draw distances however I am still in the "Wait and see" approach with the PS5's super hyped up SSD because from what we saw at the PS5 reveal, nothing looked like the XSX couldn't render better. But will "wait and see"



Bonzinga said:
DonFerrari said:

On multiplats really most of the difference shall be loading times and better textures for PS5 and more pixels or framerate stability for xbox. Unless we get a couple of devs that are harder worker and will put both consoles advantages to better use.

Not sure if its that simple Don.. From what I am hearing, the RT Tech in the XSX might make a bigger splash than the one in the PS5, and considering the XSX offers more powerful hardware across the board it might be more than just pixels and framerates, but maybe better lighting, shading and higher textures etc. The PS5 will offer quicker load times and faster draw distances however I am still in the "Wait and see" approach with the PS5's super hyped up SSD because from what we saw at the PS5 reveal, nothing looked like the XSX couldn't render better. But will "wait and see"

Im hearing the contrary then. People are saying that they dont know if the RT cores in the RDNA2 are tied to the compute unit or are separate. If they are tied to the CU then the XsX could see big improvements as it will have core RT cores and more CU's, but if its not the RT cores will be a fixed number that both consoles will have and clocked faster on the ps5 and will better performance. The XsX could use the extra compute power  for ray tracing but it wont outperform the dedicated RT cores. 



It takes genuine talent to see greatness in yourself despite your absence of genuine talent.

Bonzinga said:
goopy20 said:

Pretty sure this would not be possible on 360 lol, at least not without ruining the whole effect.

Obviously there's more to the ps5 than just the SSD, but we saw like 3 games where inter-dimensional travel seemed to be a core gameplay mechanic. Ratchet & Clank, Returnal and Dead Loop. My guess is that's because the developers went out of their way to use the SSD as some kind of tech-demo. If that'll make the gameplay better is another matter, but I definitely believe SSD will end up being the biggest leap compared to current gen.

With early games, developers are typically just testing the water when it comes to new tech, but hopefully it'll change the sense scale and immersion of games in more meaningful ways later on.   

I don't want to sound like a sad apple however what was shown in the demo looked scripted to me. We don't actually see the character free roam the worlds his transitioning through. We see the backgrounds change and that ratchet landing on a ship level.. The game looks impressive however background changing doesn't need the super fast SSD in the PS5 to achieve. 

Now before people jump me, let me say, Ratchet and Clank looked very impressive and I am sure it will be a great game but I need to see more footage of the characters actually interacting with the worlds his flying through rather him just flying through different screens.

It looked scripted because?

Bonzinga said:
DonFerrari said:

On multiplats really most of the difference shall be loading times and better textures for PS5 and more pixels or framerate stability for xbox. Unless we get a couple of devs that are harder worker and will put both consoles advantages to better use.

Not sure if its that simple Don.. From what I am hearing, the RT Tech in the XSX might make a bigger splash than the one in the PS5, and considering the XSX offers more powerful hardware across the board it might be more than just pixels and framerates, but maybe better lighting, shading and higher textures etc. The PS5 will offer quicker load times and faster draw distances however I am still in the "Wait and see" approach with the PS5's super hyped up SSD because from what we saw at the PS5 reveal, nothing looked like the XSX couldn't render better. But will "wait and see"

If you believe in that then you'll probably see the console strained for memory since the availability of fast memmory on XSX is smaller than on PS5 (the small greater speed on the GPU portion of the memmory isn't that much higher and the quantity isn't also enough to cover) and that memmory will take longer to be fed by the SSD and when both combine you'll have less things being able to be streamed and show.

You are on the wait and see for PS5 but are already running with unseen games already having even better textures on Xbox...

eva01beserk said:
Bonzinga said:

Not sure if its that simple Don.. From what I am hearing, the RT Tech in the XSX might make a bigger splash than the one in the PS5, and considering the XSX offers more powerful hardware across the board it might be more than just pixels and framerates, but maybe better lighting, shading and higher textures etc. The PS5 will offer quicker load times and faster draw distances however I am still in the "Wait and see" approach with the PS5's super hyped up SSD because from what we saw at the PS5 reveal, nothing looked like the XSX couldn't render better. But will "wait and see"

Im hearing the contrary then. People are saying that they dont know if the RT cores in the RDNA2 are tied to the compute unit or are separate. If they are tied to the CU then the XsX could see big improvements as it will have core RT cores and more CU's, but if its not the RT cores will be a fixed number that both consoles will have and clocked faster on the ps5 and will better performance. The XsX could use the extra compute power  for ray tracing but it wont outperform the dedicated RT cores. 

From the presentation seems more like both Audio Tempest and RT cores are their own entity on the chip instead of being mini parts of each CU.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

DonFerrari said:
eva01beserk said:

Im hearing the contrary then. People are saying that they dont know if the RT cores in the RDNA2 are tied to the compute unit or are separate. If they are tied to the CU then the XsX could see big improvements as it will have core RT cores and more CU's, but if its not the RT cores will be a fixed number that both consoles will have and clocked faster on the ps5 and will better performance. The XsX could use the extra compute power  for ray tracing but it wont outperform the dedicated RT cores. 

From the presentation seems more like both Audio Tempest and RT cores are their own entity on the chip instead of being mini parts of each CU.

Could be the case. But even if so, it still does not mean that both will have the same number of RT cores.



It takes genuine talent to see greatness in yourself despite your absence of genuine talent.

eva01beserk said:
DonFerrari said:

From the presentation seems more like both Audio Tempest and RT cores are their own entity on the chip instead of being mini parts of each CU.

Could be the case. But even if so, it still does not mean that both will have the same number of RT cores.

Sure thing, RT could be proportional to the CU count, exactly the same for both consoles or PS could have more for all we know. That is something that will need more deep dives to be sure.

But if anyone have any source for the RT count on both consoles that would be great.

Anyway the UE5 demo didn't even use these cores on PS5 even though Epic said it was tailor made and optimized for PS5 for 6 months.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."