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Forums - Gaming Discussion - MS Executive says Devs will need to learn how to work around Slower SSD on XSX

goopy20 said:
LudicrousSpeed said:
Per usual your post is full of stuff that is irrelevant.

- general consensus doesn’t matter, Sony was getting more praise and hype back when all they had was a logo.

- developers were asking for SSDs, both consoles have them. Again no one is saying SSDs standard isn’t a big deal lol

- exactly what is traditional about the SSX design? IIRC you’ve said this before and was corrected.

You're saying we can't judge both streams because the masses will praise Sony over MS anyway? General consensus aside, MS's stream was a snooze fest compared to Sony's and we both know why. If you're not impressed with what Sony showed then I'm seriously curious which Series X games MS showed during their stream, that did impress you.

Unless you're a game developer with experience using both consoles devkits, we simply have no idea how having half the throughput will limit the Series X compared to what's possible on ps5. Obviously, both consoles have amazing hardware and now that Sony has made its first move,its up to MS's first party studios to show something with the same wow factor. It's not an impossible task and I don't think people will be more impressed by whatever Sony shows by default. MS just has to show more than current gen games with a bunch of optimized for Series X logos. 

You can judge whatever you want, but using public praise or chatter is irrelevant because again, they were beating MS in that regard even when all they had done was show a logo. Of course a showcase will blow up. That’s not to say MS had a better showing, your barometer is just flawed.

The second paragraph is hilarious because you and a vast majority of the other PS fans around the Internets are also not game devs with both dev kits yet you can speak so factually about how limited the XSX is or how superior the PS5 design is. You also routinely speak factually about how limited first party XSX games will be but you aren’t a developer for MS so how would you know? Try to practice what you preach. 

I already said Ratchet was impressive. I also enjoyed quite a few of the smaller scale titles and moneyhat games. Unlike the XSX event feedback, I don’t mind smaller titles that end up being cross gen. In fact two of the most impressive looking games imho were cross gen, Little Devil Inside and whatever the Zelda type game was.

Last edited by LudicrousSpeed - on 14 June 2020

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can you imagine shadow of colossus 2 running on ps5??



EricHiggin said:
LurkerJ said:

I feel like some are upset the new Xbox isn't getting enough attention and determined to explain to us what we already know? Redirect your anger, tweet@PhilSpencer and let him you're disappointed with the xbox reveal event instead.

Being bold and going first can have it's downsides. It's no doubt part of the reason why SNY has been waiting. It gives them more info about what MS are doing and where they are likely headed, and allows them to make some adjustments and target what they feel will benefit them the most. You can bet that for the most part, every time MS goes first and makes a less than stellar impact, that SNY will counter with an improved version of their own, if it's part of their plan and they feel the need to cover that type of presentation on a competitive scale.

MS decided to throw short jabs bit by bit over the fight so far. SNY mostly has been ducking and dodging. SNY finally decided to throw a haymaker, and MS is disoriented for the moment but not down and out by any means. MS need to collect themselves, focus, and start swinging back.

SNY didn't reveal the PS5 price for good reason. They want to catch MS off guard if and when they can.

Yeah, it feels like Sony waiting to mention their price, is like their biggest 1-2 punch. Remember back in 1995, the infamous "299" price reveal?, that caught everyone off guard, and even after that reveal, they adjusted the price, according to the competition's.

Of all the stuff that was shown off recently, I think their price point will become the ultimate decider in all of this, and they likely know it (hence why they wish to save it).



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Please jump in if I’m off because I am not a technical guy. My impression is that the Xbox ssd is slower but still competent at its job. Asset loading and general load times would just be seconds longer, no big deal.

Wouldn’t the PS5 ssd be hindered more overall in multiplat development due to common denominators like non ssd PC versions?



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LudicrousSpeed said:
goopy20 said:

You're saying we can't judge both streams because the masses will praise Sony over MS anyway? General consensus aside, MS's stream was a snooze fest compared to Sony's and we both know why. If you're not impressed with what Sony showed then I'm seriously curious which Series X games MS showed during their stream, that did impress you.

Unless you're a game developer with experience using both consoles devkits, we simply have no idea how having half the throughput will limit the Series X compared to what's possible on ps5. Obviously, both consoles have amazing hardware and now that Sony has made its first move,its up to MS's first party studios to show something with the same wow factor. It's not an impossible task and I don't think people will be more impressed by whatever Sony shows by default. MS just has to show more than current gen games with a bunch of optimized for Series X logos. 

You can judge whatever you want, but using public praise or chatter is irrelevant because again, they were beating MS in that regard even when all they had done was show a logo. Of course a showcase will blow up. That’s not to say MS had a better showing, your barometer is just flawed.

The second paragraph is hilarious because you and a vast majority of the other PS fans around the Internets are also not game devs with both dev kits yet you can speak so factually about how limited the XSX is or how superior the PS5 design is. You also routinely speak factually about how limited first party XSX games will be but you aren’t a developer for MS so how would you know? Try to practice what you preach. 

I already said Ratchet was impressive. I also enjoyed quite a few of the smaller scale titles and moneyhat games. Unlike the XSX event feedback, I don’t mind smaller titles that end up being cross gen. In fact two of the most impressive looking games imho were cross gen, Little Devil Inside and whatever the Zelda type game was.

I literally said we have no idea how having half the throughput will limit Series X, we just know a MS exec is talking about having elevators to work around it. Personally I think Series X is also a great piece of kit, it's just that both platform holders have different strategies for next gen and it shows in their designs. Series X is more traditional in the sense that its basically a pc designed with scalability and compatibility in mind, while Sony is banking on SSD tech that's not even available on consumer pc's.

But just because we don't know how Series X's SSD compares, doesn't mean we can't already conclude that some of the things Sony showed wouldn't be possible on current gen consoles. You're trying too hard to convince yourself that nothing Sony showed can't be done before on current gen. Probably because you're salty MS has only been showing games that we know for a fact will run fine on current gen and a HDD.

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Last edited by Bristow9091 - on 18 June 2020

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sales2099 said:
Please jump in if I’m off because I am not a technical guy. My impression is that the Xbox ssd is slower but still competent at its job. Asset loading and general load times would just be seconds longer, no big deal.

Wouldn’t the PS5 ssd be hindered more overall in multiplat development due to common denominators like non ssd PC versions?

Yes. But to what degree is still undetermine ans the raw/compresed speed dosent tell the whole story.

PC wont hold it back even if it has a slower ssd than the xbox. The ssd is simply a solution to consoles not having enough ram. even laptops now days come standart with 16gb of system ram, add to that whatever the gpu has and they already beat the consoles. Some tech people are saying that a PC with 32bg system ram will be more than enough to offset the ps5 ssd.



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goopy20 said:

I literally said we have no idea how having half the throughput will limit Series X, we just know a MS exec is talking about having elevators to work around it. Personally I think Series X is also a great piece of kit, it's just that both platform holders have different strategies for next gen and it shows in their designs. Series X is more traditional in the sense that its basically a pc designed with scalability and compatibility in mind, while Sony is banking on SSD tech that's not even available on consumer pc's.

An MS exec that also admits he is clueless about game development and was just making up the only scenario he could think of: elevators. But sure, lets run with it because it fits your agenda. And you're yet to give any detail as to how the XSX is a traditional console. Both consoles went for SSD's and massively increased I/O. Sony just made their SSD faster, MS went with better hardware. Don't forget PS5 has boost mode to hit its 10TF, pretty common feature of PC's.


goopy20 said:

But just because we don't know how Series X's SSD compares, doesn't mean we can't already conclude that some of the things Sony showed wouldn't be possible on current gen consoles. You're trying too hard to convince yourself that nothing Sony showed can't be done before on current gen. Probably because you're salty MS has only been showing games that we know for a fact will run fine on current gen and a HDD.

Oh man the showing must have been more disappointing for you than I could have imagined if you went from being so sure about how XSX is limited and lacking in comparison to PS5 to now "well we don't know how it compares". Also you're free to conclude whatever you want. But it is strange how it's apparently wrong for me to believe nothing Sony showed couldn't be on PS4 (even though I don't believe I ever said that) and makes me "salty" but it's perfectly ok for you to claim nothing MS has shown can't be done on current gen and a HDD fine. Seems you didn't read the part of my post about practicing what you preach :(

I mean you're the guy constantly claiming that for years and years after launch, XSX exclusives will be designed to run on "potato PC". Please don't try to talk down to me because I rated the Sony show a 7. Maybe you just have a different opinion on innovation. After all you're the one who called Infamous innovative because it was doing the same stuff the genre had been doing for years but just bigger and prettier. I did say the SSD stuff in Ratchet with jumping worlds had been done before. Obviously with the next gen specs it will be bigger and faster and prettier. You mentioned Far Cry. You brought up a possible gameplay scenario in HFW, I replied with how you could already do that in Just Cause 2. Obviously on next gen hardware it would be bigger, faster, prettier. Just not new.

Your definitions are shifting again, I can only assume it's from disappointment in what was shown. It's fine, games will get better as the gen rolls along.



LudicrousSpeed said:
goopy20 said:

I literally said we have no idea how having half the throughput will limit Series X, we just know a MS exec is talking about having elevators to work around it. Personally I think Series X is also a great piece of kit, it's just that both platform holders have different strategies for next gen and it shows in their designs. Series X is more traditional in the sense that its basically a pc designed with scalability and compatibility in mind, while Sony is banking on SSD tech that's not even available on consumer pc's.

An MS exec that also admits he is clueless about game development and was just making up the only scenario he could think of: elevators. But sure, lets run with it because it fits your agenda. And you're yet to give any detail as to how the XSX is a traditional console. Both consoles went for SSD's and massively increased I/O. Sony just made their SSD faster, MS went with better hardware. Don't forget PS5 has boost mode to hit its 10TF, pretty common feature of PC's.


goopy20 said:

But just because we don't know how Series X's SSD compares, doesn't mean we can't already conclude that some of the things Sony showed wouldn't be possible on current gen consoles. You're trying too hard to convince yourself that nothing Sony showed can't be done before on current gen. Probably because you're salty MS has only been showing games that we know for a fact will run fine on current gen and a HDD.

Oh man the showing must have been more disappointing for you than I could have imagined if you went from being so sure about how XSX is limited and lacking in comparison to PS5 to now "well we don't know how it compares". Also you're free to conclude whatever you want. But it is strange how it's apparently wrong for me to believe nothing Sony showed couldn't be on PS4 (even though I don't believe I ever said that) and makes me "salty" but it's perfectly ok for you to claim nothing MS has shown can't be done on current gen and a HDD fine. Seems you didn't read the part of my post about practicing what you preach :(

I mean you're the guy constantly claiming that for years and years after launch, XSX exclusives will be designed to run on "potato PC". Please don't try to talk down to me because I rated the Sony show a 7. Maybe you just have a different opinion on innovation. After all you're the one who called Infamous innovative because it was doing the same stuff the genre had been doing for years but just bigger and prettier. I did say the SSD stuff in Ratchet with jumping worlds had been done before. Obviously with the next gen specs it will be bigger and faster and prettier. You mentioned Far Cry. You brought up a possible gameplay scenario in HFW, I replied with how you could already do that in Just Cause 2. Obviously on next gen hardware it would be bigger, faster, prettier. Just not new.

Your definitions are shifting again, I can only assume it's from disappointment in what was shown. It's fine, games will get better as the gen rolls along.

We know this for a fact because except for Medium, everything Ms has shown will run on Xbox One as well. 

Isn't it normal that next gen consoles do kinda the same things as current gen, but bigger and better? If that's not enough than what are you seriously expecting? To me it seems you're constantly pretending you don't know what next gen games are traditionally about. A new console generations is not a completely new concept and we both know what it usually means.

MS is just trying to rewrite the rules. Instead of doing a hard reset, they are making sure everyone can play their games in the Xbox ecosystem. That's why nothing they've shown requires cutting edge hardware or a fast SSD, even if it is skipping current gen consoles. Take Dustborn for example that was just announced for Series X, ps5 and pc. Maybe I exaggerate when I say potato pc, but just look at the pc requirements and you'll see it doesn't require SSD or a high-end gpu: https://store.steampowered.com/app/721180/Dustborn/

If you weren't disappointed with what was shown at the Series X event, then fine. But maybe that's why you're telling yourself that the IO performance gap is no biggie and everything Sony showed would run on current gen too, let alone the Series X.

Truth is that we don't know how these consoles will compare until we see the games. Until then all we have is this MS exec talking about elevators and Epic saying the ps5's SSD tech is so impactful, they've rewritten their core I/O subsystems for UE5 with the ps5 in mind. Is the MS exec a complete idiot that doesn't know what he's talking about, did Sony spend a fortune on overdeveloping their SSD and pay Epic to say those things? Who knows, but MS really needs to show something really impressive on July if they want to change the "most powerful next gen console" narrative.

Last edited by goopy20 - on 15 June 2020

goopy20 said:

Isn't it normal that next gen consoles do kinda the same things as current gen, but bigger and better? If that's not enough than what are you seriously expecting? To me it seems you're constantly pretending you don't know what next gen games are traditionally about. A new console generations is not a completely new concept and we both know what it usually means.

Dude, you have spent MONTHS claiming the exact opposite of that statement.



chakkra said:
goopy20 said:

Isn't it normal that next gen consoles do kinda the same things as current gen, but bigger and better? If that's not enough than what are you seriously expecting? To me it seems you're constantly pretending you don't know what next gen games are traditionally about. A new console generations is not a completely new concept and we both know what it usually means.

Dude, you have spent MONTHS claiming the exact opposite of that statement.

When did I say that? I remember spending months talking about how some people think Infamous SS or Killzone Shadowfall weren't true next gen game because they didn't like the games.. If a game is good or not is subjective, but next gen graphics are not. Ratchet & Clank has next gen graphics as its doing things with the portal jumping that would't be possible on current gen. If that makes for a great game is a different matter, though.