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Forums - Gaming - MS Executive says Devs will need to learn how to work around Slower SSD on XSX

The XBox SX SSD is very, very fast, it's not a bottleneck at all.

If anything most 3rd party devs aren't going to bother with the faster speed of the PS5 SSD. The XBox SX NVMe is a huge upgrade over regular HDDs of the past and devs aren't going to lock the XBox + PC + possibly Switch 2 out of the equation for some Sony-only solution.

The XBox SX NVMe will be the standard for devs and even that speed may be overkill for a lot of developers. A lot of devs will be reluctant to have even NVMe standard because there's lots of PC rigs that don't have one yet and do you really want to cut your PC audience down, not to mention PS4 Pro and XB1X are at least going to be on devs' radar for another 1-2 years too. 



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DonFerrari said:
goopy20 said:

Yeah it really looks like a game changer to me. Sure, maybe warping through levels doesn't make sense for most games, but the implementations can totally change the way we're used to experiencing games. IMO that will have much more impact that just some Ray Tracing reflections here and there.

Take Outer Worlds for example. It's not a bad game but you're supposed to feel like you flying a space ship, explore planets and are on some epic adventure. However you just get a loading screen when you fly to a different planet, then another one once you leave the ship and again a loading screen when you go into a building. It totally breaks the immersion, because the level design had to be cut in tiny hubs. But if it would be more like No Man's Sky with seamless transitions between landing on planets, and visiting amazingly detailed indoor environments, it would be something else.

There are rumours that ND's second team is doing a new sci-fi ip and it totally makes sense as that sounds like the perfect game to showcase the ps5 hardware. 

Yep world warping is just one of the possibilities of the fast I/O.

We could have something like a char growing 100x or even 1000x and the landscape change seamlesly. Same for microscopic. Also you could have FFXV car really working.

Perhaps we'll finally get interesting cut scenes again. No more slow panning talking heads and pauses between transitions. Fast editing, instantly cut from scene to scene, different viewpoints and back. Story telling should become a lot more engaging again. I've always been for pre-rendered cut scenes since the real time ones have too many limitations. With a super fast SSD we can have the quality and quick editing of pre-rendered again.

And Portal 3 pls.



Soundwave said:

The XBox SX SSD is very, very fast, it's not a bottleneck at all.

If anything most 3rd party devs aren't going to bother with the faster speed of the PS5 SSD. The XBox SX NVMe is a huge upgrade over regular HDDs of the past and devs aren't going to lock the XBox + PC + possibly Switch 2 out of the equation for some Sony-only solution.

The XBox SX NVMe will be the standard for devs and even that speed may be overkill for a lot of developers. A lot of devs will be reluctant to have even NVMe standard because there's lots of PC rigs that don't have one yet and do you really want to cut your PC audience down, not to mention PS4 Pro and XB1X are at least going to be on devs' radar for another 1-2 years too. 

Maybe PC should start catching up for once. If true, PS5's architecture is a game changer due to how fast the data can be accessed for loading essential assets. Also, Windows as an operating system has been terrible for a long time due to how inefficient it is. One example of which was when AMD was starting to contest Intel's dominance. When they were rolling out Threadripper and EPYC, Windows was causing issues with utilizing TR and EPYC CPUs due to a bug in its Kernel. The advantages of customized hardware and better efficiency in the Operating System helps a lot. That's why even if Consoles had a weaker hardware, they can perform much more consistently than say an equally spec'd PC during the time it launched.

Now I'm not saying Windows does not have any hurdles that prevent this from happening smoothly. They definitely have to take into account more factors such as the various hardware that could potentially be used. Now if the architecture succeeds and the pipe dream of PS5 ushering in this technology to the PC market, it will be an interesting future since this is very developer friendly. Pair that with what UE5 is offering, alleviating stress to your developers can potentially help them tap into their creative side more which could lead to better quality games.

Last edited by iron_megalith - on 13 June 2020

So the ssd is not a game changer, but if it was the xsx can handle it? I think you guys gona have to pick one.



It takes genuine talent to see greatness in yourself despite your absence of genuine talent.

eva01beserk said:
So the ssd is not a game changer, but if it was the xsx can handle it? I think you guys gona have to pick one.

Of course it’s a game changer in the sense that it will change a lot of things about next gen games. However it’s not a game changer in the sense that a lot of PS fans on the internets have been hyping it up to be. 

Game changer yes. PS5 secret sauce, well, clearly not in the games they showcased.



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But with the extra gpu power on the series x, can't they use the spare resources to make up for the smaller ssd. Considering you got mesh shader technology aswel for larger worlds. Or does gpu have nothing to do with loading in more detailed worlds?



LudicrousSpeed said:
DonFerrari said:

Go back and look the example you gave on Soul Reaver.

It was a very simple distortion of polygon and change of color palette. It wasn`t transporting you to a whole different world in less than 1s.

It brought enemies onto the screen, changed the visuals, and the layout of the world you were in. And it happened very fast. Personally I don’t really care if you’re transported to a whole new world if you don’t interact with it. Most of the dimension jumping in the event was on rails and seemed set up to play out that way. Now maybe in the final game you can jump whenever you want and fully explore everything, who knows. 

It was impressive but it was impressive because the PS5 annihilates the PS4 in all specs, not because of the SSD. Considering the context of this thread, it wasn’t a telling reveal for the PS5. I mean, what, in one PS5 game launching who knows when, maybe you’d have a second longer blue transition screen on XSX, maybe it would be just as fast? What a gargantuan difference.

Warping or seamless transitions between outdoor and indoor locations isn't entirely new. Hell, Far Cry from 2004 did that already: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RsEJCxWqqmA. Its instantly loading such rich assets and geometry, that's something we haven't seen before. Not all the games they showed used the SSD for warping. HZD 2's underwater part, for example, looked pretty insane. On current gen that would have been a separate level with a loading screen, but with HZD 2 I'm assuming it's a completely seamless transition.

So lets say Guerilla wants people to be able to fly a giant robotic chicken, jump in the water from mid-air, zip through the water on the back of a robot crocodile and then visit highly detailed underwater caves/ levels, they probably can pull that off seamlessly thanks to the SSD tech. Like Sony's been telling us, the whole point of their SSD stuff is to allow richer world design and to revolutionize how we move around in them. Will Series X also be able to do it? Who knows, but we already have a MS exec talking about elevators...

These were just some early titles but just imagine what developers will be doing with it later on? Seamless worlds can truly be a game changer and I can think of only Star Citizen to give us an idea of what it'll mean later on: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5y2s3jSBrI 

 

Last edited by goopy20 - on 14 June 2020

LudicrousSpeed said:
eva01beserk said:
So the ssd is not a game changer, but if it was the xsx can handle it? I think you guys gona have to pick one.

Of course it’s a game changer in the sense that it will change a lot of things about next gen games. However it’s not a game changer in the sense that a lot of PS fans on the internets have been hyping it up to be. 

Game changer yes. PS5 secret sauce, well, clearly not in the games they showcased.

So basicly its a game changer, but only to the exxtend the xsx can handle. Any extra juice after that is waste potential? This aparantly will be one of thouse ocassion where extra power does not scale right? 

I could see why you wherent ipressed with ratchet and clank, but I would recomend you look outside your buble and catch up what people are saying online. Everyone seems to be amazed at the near instant ttransitions from the warping. and lets say the xsx was attempting the same game, if that little purple tunel was the hidden loading screen and i took the ps5 like 1s to switch, how fast do you think the xsx make the transition?



It takes genuine talent to see greatness in yourself despite your absence of genuine talent.



iron_megalith said:
Soundwave said:

The XBox SX SSD is very, very fast, it's not a bottleneck at all.

If anything most 3rd party devs aren't going to bother with the faster speed of the PS5 SSD. The XBox SX NVMe is a huge upgrade over regular HDDs of the past and devs aren't going to lock the XBox + PC + possibly Switch 2 out of the equation for some Sony-only solution.

The XBox SX NVMe will be the standard for devs and even that speed may be overkill for a lot of developers. A lot of devs will be reluctant to have even NVMe standard because there's lots of PC rigs that don't have one yet and do you really want to cut your PC audience down, not to mention PS4 Pro and XB1X are at least going to be on devs' radar for another 1-2 years too. 

Maybe PC should start catching up for once. If true, PS5's architecture is a game changer due to how fast the data can be accessed for loading essential assets. Also, Windows as an operating system has been terrible for a long time due to how inefficient it is. One example of which was when AMD was starting to contest Intel's dominance. When they were rolling out Threadripper and EPYC, Windows was causing issues with utilizing TR and EPYC CPUs due to a bug in its Kernel. The advantages of customized hardware and better efficiency in the Operating System helps a lot. That's why even if Consoles had a weaker hardware, they can perform much more consistently than say an equally spec'd PC during the time it launched.

Now I'm not saying Windows does not have any hurdles that prevent this from happening smoothly. They definitely have to take into account more factors such as the various hardware that could potentially be used. Now if the architecture succeeds and the pipe dream of PS5 ushering in this technology to the PC market, it will be an interesting future since this is very developer friendly. Pair that with what UE5 is offering, alleviating stress to your developers can potentially help them tap into their creative side more which could lead to better quality games.

Seems you are unaware that PC already has SSDs faster than the PS5 one. They are just incredibly expensive. 



Can someone explain to me why SSD's keep having a high price for such a lengthy period,the progress of this technology seems slower than what happened with HDD right?

I'm curious about the resources,royalties,patents,productioncycle.