Forums - Microsoft Discussion - MS needs to showcase XSX as well as UE5 showcased PS5

RolStoppable said:

This is a funny paragraph. You say that gamers have become smarter, then immediately go back to talk about a tech demo for an engine that - despite it going to be used on both consoles - had gamers buy into the kool-aid that the PS5 will be the only console that can pull it off. The only part of the tech demo that is in question is the final one where the character flies through a canyon at high speed, but the practical implementation of that is limited anyway. The next Elder Scrolls and Witcher games won't have horses that get powered by jet engines, so SSD discussions are virtually pointless.

The tech demo will soon be moot, because people are going to care about what they can actually play. In regards to that, Microsoft has set their bar low with their third party event while Sony has set their bar high with the UE5 demo. This isn't unlike the 360 vs. PS3 generation where Microsoft suffered from the initial comparison between reality and fantasy, but when the cards had to be put on the table, it was Gears of War that impressed people while the PS3 had turned into a laughing stock for failing to deliver on its hype.

We already know that Halo Infinite and Forza 8 are supposed to be very early XSX games and the development focus was on the new console, not the old one. On the other hand, we know that most of Sony's major studios have released PS4 games from 2018 to 2020, so their arsenal is limited. At least on paper Microsoft has better preparation to get strong out of the gates next gen. Nevermind that currently the SSD is the only hardware component where the PS5 is better than the XSX, so people who care about visuals shouldn't be oblivious to that.

That's a win in their book.

How about flying on dragons? Or fast travel between locations or jumping into different characters without loading screens. There's plenty of ways to implement something like fast movement into a game creatively. GG wanted to include flight in HZD, but it was too demanding. I expect the sequel will include it.

The video will become irrelevant as soon as new content arrives. Which doesn't matter because the narrative is already established. Following the tech showcase of both systems there was talk in circles of the Xbox being more powerful and the power difference being substantial. So Sony tie the most impressive next gen graphical showcase to their less powerful system and reach a much broader audience. Playing chess while MS are playing checkers.

Putting aside that this comment fails to take into account a huge number of factors those scenarios aren't even remotely similar. Sony used bullshot trailers in 2005 to market their exclusive software, before some developers had even started rendering. UE5 is a third party engine demo running on a PS5. One running on the hardware, one not. Wishful thinking.

Out of the gates MS could definitely have stronger software. However Sony's usual approach has been to fund 2nd party developers to pad the first year or two. (Lair, HS, The Order 1186, Bloodborne) so they may have exclusive software outside of their own first party studios.

You can have the more powerful hardware, but not showcase that power.



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There isn't much MS can do at this point. They chose the CrossGen route which gives them the advantage of having a much larger player base to sell their games to, as well as those "pro-consumer" points their fanbase know and love. This comes at the expense of visually and maybe mechanically inferior early games to PS5's true exclusives, which may snowball into them lagging behind on the graphics front throughout the entire generation. The UE5 tech demo was the tip of the iceberg, not that I expect early Sony AAA games to match the level of what was shown in the demo, but I feel they won't be too far behind either.

MS can still put together a short playable true XSX tech demo, but the gap in quality between it and the actual XSX launch games would be pretty damn massive that casuals will call it fake.



Kyuu said:
There isn't much MS can do at this point. They chose the CrossGen route which gives them the advantage of having a much larger player base to sell their games to, as well as those "pro-consumer" points their fanbase know and love. This comes at the expense of visually and maybe mechanically inferior early games to PS5's true exclusives, which may snowball into them lagging behind on the graphics front throughout the entire generation. The UE5 tech demo was the tip of the iceberg, not that I expect early Sony AAA games to match the level of what was shown in the demo, but I feel they won't be too far behind either.

MS can still put together a short playable true XSX tech demo, but the gap in quality between it and the actual XSX launch games would be pretty damn massive that casuals will call it fake.

You're assuming that MS is planning to use scaling for these cross-gen games. If the rumors are true, that is not the case, at least not for all of them. Supposedly for their 2 big launch titles, Halo Infinite and Forza Motorsport 8, separate current gen and next-gen builds of the games are being made, so that the Xbox One won't be holding back the Series X. We saw this done with some Microsoft exclusives on Xbox One that were also on 360:

All 3 of the above games had their 360 versions developed separately from the Xbox One version by porting studios. If the rumors are true, MS is doing the same thing with some of their cross-gen games this time around, but are doing the XB1 versions internally instead of relying on porting studios to do them. Supposedly the Halo Infinite trailers were already saw were running the Xbox One X build of the game, so if the rumors are true, the Xbox Series X build of Halo Infinite we see in July will look quite alot better, as the new Slipstream engine was built specifically for next-gen Halo development, not current gen.  

It is likely that some of their 2021 cross-gen games (like Hellblade 2) will have separate XB1 and XSX builds as well, though some of them may use scaling instead (mostly the smaller A and AA projects I would guess will be the ones to rely on scaling, since graphics don't matter as much on those). Then starting in early 2022, XB1 support will be dropped most likely, as Matt Booty only said games would be cross-gen for the next 2 years (meaning 2020 and 2021).

Last edited by shikamaru317 - on 04 June 2020

shikamaru317 said:
Kyuu said:
There isn't much MS can do at this point. They chose the CrossGen route which gives them the advantage of having a much larger player base to sell their games to, as well as those "pro-consumer" points their fanbase know and love. This comes at the expense of visually and maybe mechanically inferior early games to PS5's true exclusives, which may snowball into them lagging behind on the graphics front throughout the entire generation. The UE5 tech demo was the tip of the iceberg, not that I expect early Sony AAA games to match the level of what was shown in the demo, but I feel they won't be too far behind either.

MS can still put together a short playable true XSX tech demo, but the gap in quality between it and the actual XSX launch games would be pretty damn massive that casuals will call it fake.

You're assuming that MS is planning to use scaling for these cross-gen games. If the rumors are true, that is not the case, at least not for all of them. Supposedly for their 2 big launch titles, Halo Infinite and Forza Motorsport 8, separate current gen and next-gen builds of the games are being made, so that the Xbox One won't be holding back the Series X. We saw this done with some Microsoft exclusives on Xbox One that were also on 360:

All 3 of the above games had their 360 versions developed separately from the Xbox One version by porting studios. If the rumors are true, MS is doing the same thing with some of their cross-gen games this time around, but are doing the XB1 versions internally instead of relying on porting studios to do them. Supposedly the Halo Infinite trailers were already saw were running the Xbox One X build of the game, so if the rumors are true, the Xbox Series X build of Halo Infinite we see in July will look quite alot better, as the new Slipstream engine was built specifically for next-gen Halo development, not current gen.  

It is likely that some of their 2021 cross-gen games (like Hellblade 2) will have separate XB1 and XSX builds as well, though some of them may use scaling instead (mostly the smaller A and AA projects I would guess will be the ones to rely on scaling, since graphics don't matter as much on those). Then starting in early 2022, XB1 support will be dropped most likely, as Matt Booty only said games would be cross-gen for the next 2 years (meaning 2020 and 2021).

I haven't heard any rumor about Halo Infinite being developed separately for Series X, do you have a source for that? In any case, we'll see soon enough.



goopy20 said:
shikamaru317 said:

You're assuming that MS is planning to use scaling for these cross-gen games. If the rumors are true, that is not the case, at least not for all of them. Supposedly for their 2 big launch titles, Halo Infinite and Forza Motorsport 8, separate current gen and next-gen builds of the games are being made, so that the Xbox One won't be holding back the Series X. We saw this done with some Microsoft exclusives on Xbox One that were also on 360:

All 3 of the above games had their 360 versions developed separately from the Xbox One version by porting studios. If the rumors are true, MS is doing the same thing with some of their cross-gen games this time around, but are doing the XB1 versions internally instead of relying on porting studios to do them. Supposedly the Halo Infinite trailers were already saw were running the Xbox One X build of the game, so if the rumors are true, the Xbox Series X build of Halo Infinite we see in July will look quite alot better, as the new Slipstream engine was built specifically for next-gen Halo development, not current gen.  

It is likely that some of their 2021 cross-gen games (like Hellblade 2) will have separate XB1 and XSX builds as well, though some of them may use scaling instead (mostly the smaller A and AA projects I would guess will be the ones to rely on scaling, since graphics don't matter as much on those). Then starting in early 2022, XB1 support will be dropped most likely, as Matt Booty only said games would be cross-gen for the next 2 years (meaning 2020 and 2021).

I haven't heard any rumor about Halo Infinite being developed separately for Series X, do you have a source for that? In any case, we'll see soon enough.

I remember reading it somewhere, but I'm not 100% sure where now. But, considering the fact that they specifically said that the new engine was made for next-gen Halo development, and the fact that the name Infinite implies the game will be supported long term, I would be surprised if they would allow the Xbox One to hold back the Series X version by utilizing scaling, instead of developing the XB1 and XSX versions separately while still maintaining crossplay capability. 

I definitely remember reading the leak about Forza Motorsport 8 being a reboot built on a new build of the ForzaTech engine though, with all new car models and track assets, a new tire pressure and road temperature simulation system, off-road tracks, and more. If that leak was right, the XB1 version will utilize the old Forza 7 car and track assets, while still having access to some of the new simulation systems. 



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UE5 was not actual gameplay footage for PS5 and it was running 1440p 30 fps. While the tech is nice and impressive, it's going to be used by both next-gen console.
Microsoft is going to be the leader in graphics next-gen, but that's not what really matters. Let's not forget the past generation. Microsoft only needs to focus on one thing Games Games Games.

I really like the approach that Microsoft is taking and it's really putting themself apart from Sony. Back capability, Smart delivery, and expending the Xbox brand to streaming everywhere is much more important to moving the platform forward then focus on graphics. The more user and making it much easier to join is going to result in many more games coming to the platform.

Microsoft rather than pushing for better graphics should double down on performance. They should request that AC Vahlalla support a lock 60 fps mode, this focus on performance goes a long way to gather the support of hardcore gamers. Microsoft's new focus on performance and low latency are again putting them apart from Sony's approach.

I think OP of this thread got it all wrong, Microsoft should focus on offering features that make then stand out as their own platform and not try to copy Sony.
Focus needs to be on quick resume, game pass, play anywhere, accessasibility and supporting all of Xbox consoles rather than forcing everyone to upgrade to next-gen now.
This really set Microsoft apart from Sony, while some hardcore won't appreciate the move compare to Sony's, it's super appealing to the casual gamers. Microsoft is also not alienating their hardcore audience with all the power they go packed in the Xbox Series X. I think Microsoft is really on to something especially if they release the Xbox Series S (Lockhart). The future of gaming isn't 4k 60 fps but rather 1080p 60 fps and the ability to play anywhere you want. You can own the Xbox Series X at home and enjoy having much better graphic. But, having the ability to play your game anywhere on any device for no extra costs at 1080P is going to be amazing.



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yvanjean said:
UE5 was not actual gameplay footage for PS5 and it was running 1440p 30 fps. While the tech is nice and impressive, it's going to be used by both next-gen console.
Microsoft is going to be the leader in graphics next-gen, but that's not what really matters. Let's not forget the past generation. Microsoft only needs to focus on one thing Games Games Games.

I really like the approach that Microsoft is taking and it's really putting themself apart from Sony. Back capability, Smart delivery, and expending the Xbox brand to streaming everywhere is much more important to moving the platform forward then focus on graphics. The more user and making it much easier to join is going to result in many more games coming to the platform.

Microsoft rather than pushing for better graphics should double down on performance. They should request that AC Vahlalla support a lock 60 fps mode, this focus on performance goes a long way to gather the support of hardcore gamers. Microsoft's new focus on performance and low latency are again putting them apart from Sony's approach.

I think OP of this thread got it all wrong, Microsoft should focus on offering features that make then stand out as their own platform and not try to copy Sony.
Focus needs to be on quick resume, game pass, play anywhere, accessasibility and supporting all of Xbox consoles rather than forcing everyone to upgrade to next-gen now.
This really set Microsoft apart from Sony, while some hardcore won't appreciate the move compare to Sony's, it's super appealing to the casual gamers. Microsoft is also not alienating their hardcore audience with all the power they go packed in the Xbox Series X. I think Microsoft is really on to something especially if they release the Xbox Series S (Lockhart). The future of gaming isn't 4k 60 fps but rather 1080p 60 fps and the ability to play anywhere you want. You can own the Xbox Series X at home and enjoy having much better graphic. But, having the ability to play your game anywhere on any device for no extra costs at 1080P is going to be amazing.

@bolded That remains to be seen. We know Series X will be a bit stronger without a doubt. However, devs keep talking about how crazy this SSD is for PS5. I want to see if devs will fully utilize the power of Series X, or will they go for the supposed easier development route for PS5. I said "supposed" because many devs have come out to say how easy the PS5 is to develop for. I don't know for sure, I'm just going by what was reported. None of us will know until the games come out. 

I do agree with everything else you said though.



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Rafie said:
yvanjean said:
UE5 was not actual gameplay footage for PS5 and it was running 1440p 30 fps. While the tech is nice and impressive, it's going to be used by both next-gen console.
Microsoft is going to be the leader in graphics next-gen, but that's not what really matters. Let's not forget the past generation. Microsoft only needs to focus on one thing Games Games Games.

I really like the approach that Microsoft is taking and it's really putting themself apart from Sony. Back capability, Smart delivery, and expending the Xbox brand to streaming everywhere is much more important to moving the platform forward then focus on graphics. The more user and making it much easier to join is going to result in many more games coming to the platform.

Microsoft rather than pushing for better graphics should double down on performance. They should request that AC Vahlalla support a lock 60 fps mode, this focus on performance goes a long way to gather the support of hardcore gamers. Microsoft's new focus on performance and low latency are again putting them apart from Sony's approach.

I think OP of this thread got it all wrong, Microsoft should focus on offering features that make then stand out as their own platform and not try to copy Sony.
Focus needs to be on quick resume, game pass, play anywhere, accessasibility and supporting all of Xbox consoles rather than forcing everyone to upgrade to next-gen now.
This really set Microsoft apart from Sony, while some hardcore won't appreciate the move compare to Sony's, it's super appealing to the casual gamers. Microsoft is also not alienating their hardcore audience with all the power they go packed in the Xbox Series X. I think Microsoft is really on to something especially if they release the Xbox Series S (Lockhart). The future of gaming isn't 4k 60 fps but rather 1080p 60 fps and the ability to play anywhere you want. You can own the Xbox Series X at home and enjoy having much better graphic. But, having the ability to play your game anywhere on any device for no extra costs at 1080P is going to be amazing.

@bolded That remains to be seen. We know Series X will be a bit stronger without a doubt. However, devs keep talking about how crazy this SSD is for PS5. I want to see if devs will fully utilize the power of Series X, or will they go for the supposed easier development route for PS5. I said "supposed" because many devs have come out to say how easy the PS5 is to develop for. I don't know for sure, I'm just going by what was reported. None of us will know until the games come out. 

I do agree with everything else you said though.

I personally don't see how one would be significantly easier to develop for than the other. They are like 80% the same. Both are using AMD APU's comprised of Zen 2 CPU cores and RDNA 2 GPU cores. Both are using GDDR6, though MS opted to use different GDDR6 speeds for GPU tasks and CPU/OS tasks. Both have NVMe SSD's, though PS5's is faster. The 20% difference is mainly from things like Xbox's Velocity Architecture and DirectX 12 Ultimate features like Variable Rate Shading, and PS5's 3D audio Tempest Engine. 



kirby007 said:
dont worry M$ is here to stay

Them staying has never been the problem, opposed to whether they can make their own high quality new IP .

Last edited by S.T.A.G.E. - on 04 June 2020

The bar has gotten pretty low. Now MS needs a tech demo to compete?

I think this is more reflective of people being bored and wanting content that seemingly utilizes 9th gen specs now.



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