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Forums - Microsoft Discussion - MS needs to showcase XSX as well as UE5 showcased PS5

vivster on 03 June 2020
curl-6 said:
RolStoppable said:

This is a funny paragraph. You say that gamers have become smarter, then immediately go back to talk about a tech demo for an engine that - despite it going to be used on both consoles - had gamers buy into the kool-aid that the PS5 will be the only console that can pull it off. The only part of the tech demo that is in question is the final one where the character flies through a canyon at high speed, but the practical implementation of that is limited anyway. The next Elder Scrolls and Witcher games won't have horses that get powered by jet engines, so SSD discussions are virtually pointless.

The tech demo will soon be moot, because people are going to care about what they can actually play. In regards to that, Microsoft has set their bar low with their third party event while Sony has set their bar high with the UE5 demo. This isn't unlike the 360 vs. PS3 generation where Microsoft suffered from the initial comparison between reality and fantasy, but when the cards had to be put on the table, it was Gears of War that impressed people while the PS3 had turned into a laughing stock for failing to deliver on its hype.

We already know that Halo Infinite and Forza 8 are supposed to be very early XSX games and the development focus was on the new console, not the old one. On the other hand, we know that most of Sony's major studios have released PS4 games from 2018 to 2020, so their arsenal is limited. At least on paper Microsoft has better preparation to get strong out of the gates next gen. Nevermind that currently the SSD is the only hardware component where the PS5 is better than the XSX, so people who care about visuals shouldn't be oblivious to that.

It is still easy to wow gamers with tech demos, but to do so you have to present it as gameplay, as they've become used to cinematics being pre-rendered BS.

Hence why I suggested MS need to show off specifically a gameplay showcase that can at least equal the UE5 demo, lest we see a repeat of the situation where the Xbox One X was more powerful than the PS4 Pro, yet the perception is still that PS has the best looking games.

Having gameplay that looks like that tech demo is not a realistic expectation, because the tech demo is bullshit while a game is a game. Which is exactly why we have only seen that tech demo on the PS5. Any actual game will look noticeably worse. Xbox launch games won't be able to compete with a fantasy and neither will PS5 games.

Last edited by vivster - on 03 June 2020

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DonFerrari on 03 June 2020
sales2099 said:
ArchangelMadzz said:

It was running on a PS5 and they fit in PR talk about the PS5's SSD. 

Hellblade released on PS4 so I'm not sure why you inlcuded that, plus Days gone uses Unreal, so how is it a dirty move?

Either way Sony was the first to actually demonstrate what games running on PS5 will look and play like. No deception there.

Days Gone is not a graphical showcase of UE. All top Sony studios don’t use it while I’m saying Xbox studios use UE like Ninja Theory, Obsidian, Inexile, and Coalition with Gears 4/5. 

To me it’s deceptive because you won’t see a top tier Sony studio use UE5 where as we most definitely will see Xbox studios use it eventually. I stand by my point but I will admit it was a brilliant PR move though. 

Days Gone looks better than most Xbox games made on UE though.

And their last experience was basically versions of games to PSVita.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

chakkra on 03 June 2020

curl-6 said:

"In-engine" cinematic stuff isn't going to do the trick; gamers have wised up to the fact that these can be faked. The reason the UE5 demo worked so well was that it was presented as gameplay. Whatever the best looking game MS have up their sleeve at the moment, they should put together a gameplay showcase for it. Show what their new system can do and why people who care about visuals shouldn't just get a PS5 instead.

You speak as if gameplay downgrade is not a thing.

As per your point, I will be extremely surprised if ANY company shows a game this year that looks as good as that demo. Furthermore, ever since MS announced that they will be focusing on 60fps, I think it is safe to assume that Sony´s games will probably look more impressive graphically speaking. Will that affect sales on the first year? it's hard to say, but I'm inclined to think that most people who buy a console on the first year have already their mind up even before said consoles are announced.



DonFerrari on 03 June 2020
chakkra said:

curl-6 said:

"In-engine" cinematic stuff isn't going to do the trick; gamers have wised up to the fact that these can be faked. The reason the UE5 demo worked so well was that it was presented as gameplay. Whatever the best looking game MS have up their sleeve at the moment, they should put together a gameplay showcase for it. Show what their new system can do and why people who care about visuals shouldn't just get a PS5 instead.

You speak as if gameplay downgrade is not a thing.

As per your point, I will be extremely surprised if ANY company shows a game this year that looks as good as that demo. Furthermore, ever since MS announced that they will be focusing on 60fps, I think it is safe to assume that Sony´s games will probably look more impressive graphically speaking. Will that affect sales on the first year? it's hard to say, but I'm inclined to think that most people who buy a console on the first year have already their mind up even before said consoles are announced.

Console gamers haven't cared for 60fps mostly, so if the power difference amount to Sony games being much prettier and MS games running at 60fps there won't be a reason to pay more for the stronger HW for most of the buyers.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

kirby007 on 03 June 2020
DonFerrari said:
chakkra said:

You speak as if gameplay downgrade is not a thing.

As per your point, I will be extremely surprised if ANY company shows a game this year that looks as good as that demo. Furthermore, ever since MS announced that they will be focusing on 60fps, I think it is safe to assume that Sony´s games will probably look more impressive graphically speaking. Will that affect sales on the first year? it's hard to say, but I'm inclined to think that most people who buy a console on the first year have already their mind up even before said consoles are announced.

Console gamers haven't cared for 60fps mostly, so if the power difference amount to Sony games being much prettier and MS games running at 60fps there won't be a reason to pay more for the stronger HW for most of the buyers.

i dont like console gamers getting 120fps that means they get  a better chance at killing me in crossplatform games



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sethnintendo on 03 June 2020

Yes it always pisses me off when companies just show CGI cut scenes instead of gameplay. They've been doing this shit in commercials since the late 90s. Glad to see after two decades gamers are finally starting to catch on.



chakkra on 03 June 2020
DonFerrari said:
chakkra said:

You speak as if gameplay downgrade is not a thing.

As per your point, I will be extremely surprised if ANY company shows a game this year that looks as good as that demo. Furthermore, ever since MS announced that they will be focusing on 60fps, I think it is safe to assume that Sony´s games will probably look more impressive graphically speaking. Will that affect sales on the first year? it's hard to say, but I'm inclined to think that most people who buy a console on the first year have already their mind up even before said consoles are announced.

Console gamers haven't cared for 60fps mostly, so if the power difference amount to Sony games being much prettier and MS games running at 60fps there won't be a reason to pay more for the stronger HW for most of the buyers.

What can I tell you man? The cards are already on the table. Whatever we say here is not gonna change the outcome. Now we just have to wait and see.



sales2099 on 03 June 2020
DonFerrari said:
sales2099 said:

Days Gone is not a graphical showcase of UE. All top Sony studios don’t use it while I’m saying Xbox studios use UE like Ninja Theory, Obsidian, Inexile, and Coalition with Gears 4/5. 

To me it’s deceptive because you won’t see a top tier Sony studio use UE5 where as we most definitely will see Xbox studios use it eventually. I stand by my point but I will admit it was a brilliant PR move though. 

Days Gone looks better than most Xbox games made on UE though.

And their last experience was basically versions of games to PSVita.

I’m aware of their history. It doesn’t change the point I made. If ANY of the top studios use UE like ND, SM, SP, Guerilla I wouldn’t even have this opinion. 



Xbox: Best hardware, Game Pass best value, best BC, more 1st party genres and multiplayer titles. 

 

DonFerrari on 03 June 2020
sales2099 said:
DonFerrari said:

Days Gone looks better than most Xbox games made on UE though.

And their last experience was basically versions of games to PSVita.

I’m aware of their history. It doesn’t change the point I made. If ANY of the top studios use UE like ND, SM, SP, Guerilla I wouldn’t even have this opinion. 

Then their game would look worse so there would be no point in doing it. The reason they opted to make their own engine was first to have it specialized in what PS4 had (strengh use and compensate weakness) also on what the studio needed. And even with a second tier studio using a market available engine they were able to put a game that looks better than most games even from 1st tier studios from MS.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

LudicrousSpeed on 03 June 2020
DonFerrari said:
chakkra said:

You speak as if gameplay downgrade is not a thing.

As per your point, I will be extremely surprised if ANY company shows a game this year that looks as good as that demo. Furthermore, ever since MS announced that they will be focusing on 60fps, I think it is safe to assume that Sony´s games will probably look more impressive graphically speaking. Will that affect sales on the first year? it's hard to say, but I'm inclined to think that most people who buy a console on the first year have already their mind up even before said consoles are announced.

Console gamers haven't cared for 60fps mostly, so if the power difference amount to Sony games being much prettier and MS games running at 60fps there won't be a reason to pay more for the stronger HW for most of the buyers.

They haven't cared for prettier games, either. Otherwise the Switch and Wii would have sold like dog shit, the PS3 would have never taken off, the Dreamcast would have been a massive success, and the OG Xbox would have trounced the PS2. If the CoD bro crowd prefers pretty narrative titles, more power to them. I'll take games feeling much better with higher frame rates. I play Horizon 4 on the Scorpio with the 60fps option even though I can get better graphics if I choose that setting. It's not like picking the 60fps option makes it an ugly game, on Scorpio it's still the best looking console racer. It can just look even better.

If the market shows they want flashy visuals over the feel of 60+ FPS then there's nothing MS from making a single player title at 30fps. In the end it will just boil down to quality. No one gives a shit that Order 1886 looks great, because the game sucks. MS can make a game with 240fps, if it's not any good then no one will care. chakkra was right, most people who buy the consoles early already have their mind made up and have for awhile.