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Forums - Microsoft Discussion - MS needs to showcase XSX as well as UE5 showcased PS5

Conina on 02 June 2020
DonFerrari said:
Conina said:

Source that PS5 will play ALL PS4 games, please!

Source that most PS4 games won't need any patches or fixes to run on PS5, please!

These are just assumptions and Sony's current statements are speaking a totally different language... I really hope that they are just miscommunicating, since I want to replace my PS4 with a PS5 as soon as possible (and I don't have infinite HDMI ports + space to keep them both connected).

And no one said that quality assurance is a bad thing.

Guess what: Microsoft does that too: https://news.xbox.com/en-us/2020/05/28/xbox-series-x-next-generation-backward-compatibility/

"With more than 100,000 hours of play testing already completed, thousands of games are already playable on Xbox Series X today, from the biggest blockbusters to cult classics and fan favorites. Many of us in Team Xbox play on the Xbox Series X daily as our primary console and switching between generations is seamless. By the time we launch this holiday, the team will have spent well over 200,000 hours ensuring your game library is ready for you to jump in immediately."

https://www.theverge.com/2020/3/20/21188585/sony-ps5-backwards-compatibility-ps4-games-support-majority-plus-titles

“We believe that the overwhelming majority of the 4,000+ PS4 titles will be playable on PS5.”

Believing something is no guarantee, especially if two months later they only "strongly recommend" developers to add PS5 compatibility to their PS4 games:

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2020-05-29-new-ps4-games-must-be-playstation-5-compatible-from-july-sony-tells-devs

“We’re currently evaluating games on a title-by-title basis to spot any issues that need adjustment from the original software developers.”

So Sony only tests the games, sends the report to the game developers and hopes, that the game developers fix the issues on time... preferably with enhancements.

On the other hand, Microsoft seems to be much more involved into their BC process: instead of fixing games on title-by-title basis they are tweaking the groundwork for all BC games to lift the burden from the developers in many cases. Some enhancements are also already provided by that foundation. And (according to the statements of Microsoft), that way seems to work so that already over 1000 legacy Xbox games "were tested positive".



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DonFerrari on 02 June 2020
sales2099 said:
SvennoJ said:

I'm part of all gamers though. Only need one to disprove your all statement :p

And so am I. Seems we are at an impasse. Unless I say the universal truth that a console with more BC is nicer then a console with less for those who are even remotely interested. Not taking into account other features and platform specific games of course. 

You miss it, he is focussing on you saying all gamers can get behind, he don't so your point was nullified.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

DonFerrari on 02 June 2020
Conina said:
DonFerrari said:

https://www.theverge.com/2020/3/20/21188585/sony-ps5-backwards-compatibility-ps4-games-support-majority-plus-titles

“We believe that the overwhelming majority of the 4,000+ PS4 titles will be playable on PS5.”

Believing something is no guarantee, especially if two months later they only "strongly recommend" developers to add PS5 compatibility to their PS4 games:

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2020-05-29-new-ps4-games-must-be-playstation-5-compatible-from-july-sony-tells-devs

“We’re currently evaluating games on a title-by-title basis to spot any issues that need adjustment from the original software developers.”

So Sony only tests the games, sends the report to the game developers and hopes, that the game developers fix the issues on time... preferably with enhancements.

On the other hand, Microsoft seems to be much more involved into their BC process: instead of fixing games on title-by-title basis they are tweaking the groundwork for all BC games to lift the burden from the developers in many cases. Some enhancements are also already provided by that foundation. And (according to the statements of Microsoft), that way seems to work so that already over 1000 legacy Xbox games "were tested positive".

The PS5 have the PS4 logic into the silicon, it was made to make basically all games work fine already. And no amount of hour test can ensure anything. We have games that alone had as much hours in QA as the whole MS put to all games in BC but still have bugs.

I can agree that XSX BC seems more complete and probably more tested, but you are trying to force on the PS5 not working fine. You got the source only to find a way to dismiss it.

MS at the same day Sony made the clarification put an announcement that all games would work and them rectified it.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

sales2099 on 02 June 2020
DonFerrari said:
sales2099 said:

And so am I. Seems we are at an impasse. Unless I say the universal truth that a console with more BC is nicer then a console with less for those who are even remotely interested. Not taking into account other features and platform specific games of course. 

You miss it, he is focussing on you saying all gamers can get behind, he don't so your point was nullified.

Well that seems like semantics rather then tackling the points at hand. 



Xbox: Best hardware, Game Pass best value, best BC, more 1st party genres and multiplayer titles. 

 

DonFerrari on 02 June 2020
sales2099 said:
DonFerrari said:

You miss it, he is focussing on you saying all gamers can get behind, he don't so your point was nullified.

Well that seems like semantics rather then tackling the points at hand. 

Could be, but still you didn't understand his response when you said he couldn't use himself as example and used yourself as counter.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

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ArchangelMadzz on 02 June 2020
sales2099 said:
Forza is a easy pick for graphical showcase I’m not worried.

It still is frustrating that Sony took credit for that demo...they don’t use UE. The Coalition with Gears 5, Ninja Theory for Hellblade, upcoming games like Inexiles AAA game, Hellblade 2, Obsidians AAA projects. These are games that showcased and will showcase UE in its glory.

Far as I’m concerned the UE5 demo advertised what Series X can do with developers that actually use it (XGS). Perhaps at an even higher frame rate with better lighting. To anyone who may look to report, this isn’t baiting. Sony got the win I just feel it was a dirty move.

It was running on a PS5 and they fit in PR talk about the PS5's SSD. 

Hellblade released on PS4 so I'm not sure why you inlcuded that, plus Days gone uses Unreal, so how is it a dirty move?

Either way Sony was the first to actually demonstrate what games running on PS5 will look and play like. No deception there.



There's only 2 races: White and 'Political Agenda'
2 Genders: Male and 'Political Agenda'
2 Hairstyles for female characters: Long and 'Political Agenda'
2 Sexualities: Straight and 'Political Agenda'

SvennoJ on 02 June 2020
sales2099 said:
SvennoJ said:

I'm part of all gamers though. Only need one to disprove your all statement :p

And so am I. Seems we are at an impasse. Unless I say the universal truth that a console with more BC is nicer then a console with less for those who are even remotely interested. Not taking into account other features and platform specific games of course. 

It's certainly nicer to have than not to have. Yet there's always a cost. Those 200 thousand hours might be put to better use on making games. The extra HW features or compromises to ensure BC (in both ps5 and xsx) add cost to the console and/or take away potential. Is it worth all the effort when it's just a nice to have...

But true, if ps4 played CDs as well I could have taken the ps3 out of my av cabinet. Not that I care, blu-ray seems to only remember where you left off if you leave the disc in. Plus I prefer the ps3 blu-ray player and leave the ps3 off-line to avoid blu-ray downloading commercials. Pretty horrible format really, just not as bad as all the others lol. (Yes, I do mostly watch Netflix nowadays out of convenience, though audio and video quality leave a lot to be desired and no extras)



DonFerrari on 02 June 2020
SvennoJ said:
sales2099 said:

And so am I. Seems we are at an impasse. Unless I say the universal truth that a console with more BC is nicer then a console with less for those who are even remotely interested. Not taking into account other features and platform specific games of course. 

It's certainly nicer to have than not to have. Yet there's always a cost. Those 200 thousand hours might be put to better use on making games. The extra HW features or compromises to ensure BC (in both ps5 and xsx) add cost to the console and/or take away potential. Is it worth all the effort when it's just a nice to have...

But true, if ps4 played CDs as well I could have taken the ps3 out of my av cabinet. Not that I care, blu-ray seems to only remember where you left off if you leave the disc in. Plus I prefer the ps3 blu-ray player and leave the ps3 off-line to avoid blu-ray downloading commercials. Pretty horrible format really, just not as bad as all the others lol. (Yes, I do mostly watch Netflix nowadays out of convenience, though audio and video quality leave a lot to be desired and no extras)

That is something the PS5 should improve on, for several BDs keeping a memory of where you stopped. Will cost almost no memory but is something good to have. The reason I like official streaming instead of youtube or downloaded material is that it saves the last watched for each series/anime and also where you stopped (almost always work fine, if internet is flicking it may have a small issue).



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

curl-6 on 02 June 2020
RolStoppable said:
curl-6 said:

(...)

"In-engine" cinematic stuff isn't going to do the trick; gamers have wised up to the fact that these can be faked. The reason the UE5 demo worked so well was that it was presented as gameplay. Whatever the best looking game MS have up their sleeve at the moment, they should put together a gameplay showcase for it. Show what their new system can do and why people who care about visuals shouldn't just get a PS5 instead.

This is a funny paragraph. You say that gamers have become smarter, then immediately go back to talk about a tech demo for an engine that - despite it going to be used on both consoles - had gamers buy into the kool-aid that the PS5 will be the only console that can pull it off. The only part of the tech demo that is in question is the final one where the character flies through a canyon at high speed, but the practical implementation of that is limited anyway. The next Elder Scrolls and Witcher games won't have horses that get powered by jet engines, so SSD discussions are virtually pointless.

The tech demo will soon be moot, because people are going to care about what they can actually play. In regards to that, Microsoft has set their bar low with their third party event while Sony has set their bar high with the UE5 demo. This isn't unlike the 360 vs. PS3 generation where Microsoft suffered from the initial comparison between reality and fantasy, but when the cards had to be put on the table, it was Gears of War that impressed people while the PS3 had turned into a laughing stock for failing to deliver on its hype.

We already know that Halo Infinite and Forza 8 are supposed to be very early XSX games and the development focus was on the new console, not the old one. On the other hand, we know that most of Sony's major studios have released PS4 games from 2018 to 2020, so their arsenal is limited. At least on paper Microsoft has better preparation to get strong out of the gates next gen. Nevermind that currently the SSD is the only hardware component where the PS5 is better than the XSX, so people who care about visuals shouldn't be oblivious to that.

It is still easy to wow gamers with tech demos, but to do so you have to present it as gameplay, as they've become used to cinematics being pre-rendered BS.

Hence why I suggested MS need to show off specifically a gameplay showcase that can at least equal the UE5 demo, lest we see a repeat of the situation where the Xbox One X was more powerful than the PS4 Pro, yet the perception is still that PS has the best looking games.



sales2099 on 03 June 2020
ArchangelMadzz said:
sales2099 said:
Forza is a easy pick for graphical showcase I’m not worried.

It still is frustrating that Sony took credit for that demo...they don’t use UE. The Coalition with Gears 5, Ninja Theory for Hellblade, upcoming games like Inexiles AAA game, Hellblade 2, Obsidians AAA projects. These are games that showcased and will showcase UE in its glory.

Far as I’m concerned the UE5 demo advertised what Series X can do with developers that actually use it (XGS). Perhaps at an even higher frame rate with better lighting. To anyone who may look to report, this isn’t baiting. Sony got the win I just feel it was a dirty move.

It was running on a PS5 and they fit in PR talk about the PS5's SSD. 

Hellblade released on PS4 so I'm not sure why you inlcuded that, plus Days gone uses Unreal, so how is it a dirty move?

Either way Sony was the first to actually demonstrate what games running on PS5 will look and play like. No deception there.

Days Gone is not a graphical showcase of UE. All top Sony studios don’t use it while I’m saying Xbox studios use UE like Ninja Theory, Obsidian, Inexile, and Coalition with Gears 4/5. 

To me it’s deceptive because you won’t see a top tier Sony studio use UE5 where as we most definitely will see Xbox studios use it eventually. I stand by my point but I will admit it was a brilliant PR move though. 



Xbox: Best hardware, Game Pass best value, best BC, more 1st party genres and multiplayer titles.