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Forums - Politics Discussion - So, are we not gonna talk about this?

Nautilus said:

''Saying crap as all lives matter''? So you are saying some lives are more valuable than others? God, these situation bring the worst on people...

If a white person like myself says 'Black Lives Matter', I'm not suggesting that my life is less valuable.

I'm raising awareness of a particular problem that I think needs to be highlighted.
If you want to deflect and undermine the message as much as possible, you counter with 'All Lives Matter'. As if I ever claimed otherwise.

And even though it started with one scumbag with his knee on a black man's neck for 9 minutes, police brutality is an underlying issue. And it has now escalated to a whole slew of officers who need to be investigated for violent crimes. Shooting people's eyes out for just reporting the news, kicking people who are just sitting peacefully on the ground, accelerating with a car into a crowd, firing canisters at people for standing on their own porch, etc.

This is one of the reasons why this isn't over yet, in spite of the original officer now being arrested and charged with murder.

Last edited by Hiku - on 01 June 2020

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Nautilus said:
Torillian said:

Saying "all lives matter" as a response to "black lives matter" is not done in good faith. It's done to diminish the concerns of black people who face disproportionate police brutality. Well meaning centrists who take the movement's title statement at face value is why it has been so successful. 

Honestly, it's strategically pretty brilliant while disgusting in its intent because the centrist response writes itself. "Well why don't all lives matter?"

Personally speaking, I say this because of two reasons:

1 - It's the truth, and it's something that it's easy to lose sights on, especially when something this outrageous happens.

2 - Because many of those people that says ''Black Lives Matter'' are the same ones that are destroying people belongings and properties or attacking white people that had done nothing other than just... being white and being on the wrong place at the wrong time. Don't look no further than what is happening right now. I don't mean to downplay the situation. Black people deserves better treatment and all. But if we really want to extinguish racism, we need to start treating it as a broader discussion, to discuss racism as a whole and attack its cause, rather than just some of it's many branches. Otherwise you end up like now: People picking sides, because they feel like the other side it's trying to downplay the other, like it's some fucking sport.

I understand you have your reasons, but you should know that you are falling into the hands of reactionaries who are using your straightforwardness against you. It's a game of sorts, and unfortunately they aren't playing fairly. This is why when you say "All Lives Matter" you are going to get pushback because people will assume you are trying to diminish the voice of Black Lives Matter. 



...

Torillian said:
kirby007 said:

no but that person has the power to tell(protest/annoy) me and those others cant

In which case I would tell you that someone working on a different problem shouldn't be viewed as a detriment to your own work on another problem. If I spend my free time working towards greener energy solutions I shouldn't view the person working towards better policing standards as a detriment, but just someone that has different priorities based on their life experience. We are both working towards making the world a better place, we simply have different angles on that same goal. 

it shouldn't be claimed more important which is happening right now ... this by any means nessecary attitude



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kirby007 said:
Torillian said:

In which case I would tell you that someone working on a different problem shouldn't be viewed as a detriment to your own work on another problem. If I spend my free time working towards greener energy solutions I shouldn't view the person working towards better policing standards as a detriment, but just someone that has different priorities based on their life experience. We are both working towards making the world a better place, we simply have different angles on that same goal. 

it shouldn't be claimed more important which is happening right now ... this by any means nessecary attitude

If you want to raise awareness for another issue, do it in a genuine way, separately. Not as a deflection from another plight.

You can probably gauge which one you think is more important based on how people respond.



Torillian said:
Nautilus said:

Personally speaking, I say this because of two reasons:

1 - It's the truth, and it's something that it's easy to lose sights on, especially when something this outrageous happens.

2 - Because many of those people that says ''Black Lives Matter'' are the same ones that are destroying people belongings and properties or attacking white people that had done nothing other than just... being white and being on the wrong place at the wrong time. Don't look no further than what is happening right now. I don't mean to downplay the situation. Black people deserves better treatment and all. But if we really want to extinguish racism, we need to start treating it as a broader discussion, to discuss racism as a whole and attack its cause, rather than just some of it's many branches. Otherwise you end up like now: People picking sides, because they feel like the other side it's trying to downplay the other, like it's some fucking sport.

I understand you have your reasons, but you should know that you are falling into the hands of reactionaries who are using your straightforwardness against you. It's a game of sorts, and unfortunately they aren't playing fairly. This is why when you say "All Lives Matter" you are going to get pushback because people will assume you are trying to diminish the voice of Black Lives Matter. 

And many that stand for the BLM are falling pray on the hands of people that profit from the protests, money from government to their foundation, etc. And they can be even more unfair.



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Hiku said:
kirby007 said:

it shouldn't be claimed more important which is happening right now ... this by any means nessecary attitude

If you want to raise awareness for another issue, do it in a genuine way, separately. Not as a deflection from another plight.

You can probably gauge which one you think is more important based on how people respond.

oh yes bad cops are bad, we should not have cops at all



 "I think people should define the word crap" - Kirby007

Join the Prediction League http://www.vgchartz.com/predictions

Instead of seeking to convince others, we can be open to changing our own minds, and seek out information that contradicts our own steadfast point of view. Maybe it’ll turn out that those who disagree with you actually have a solid grasp of the facts. There’s a slight possibility that, after all, you’re the one who’s wrong.

kirby007 said:
Hiku said:

If you want to raise awareness for another issue, do it in a genuine way, separately. Not as a deflection from another plight.

You can probably gauge which one you think is more important based on how people respond.

oh yes bad cops are bad, we should not have cops at all

That would be the same issue.
I was referring the Africa issue you raised. You can make a separate thread for that if you find it equally important.



Isn't police brutality as a whole a larger issue? Specially with the whole "blue wall" thing where the people in the police protect each other from accountability. I remember reading a story years ago where a policewoman in the US knocked on a door and a kid with a wiimote opened it; she thought the wiimote was a gun therefore she shot him and killed him. He was white. I believe she didn't go to jail and kept her job as far as I'm aware of.

I don't mean to disregard the racism issue, it's just my observations as someone who isn't from the US. Everyone in a community suffers if the gov. people with the guns aren't held accountable for their actions.



"All Lives Matter" is idiotic. 

If a fire truck is driving to your neighbourhood to put out a house on fire do you stop them and insist that your house that isn't on fire also be first hosed down because "all houses are equal".

No you dumb fuck, they're not. Situations are different.



Spike0503 said:
Isn't police brutality as a whole a larger issue? Specially with the whole "blue wall" thing where the people in the police protect each other from accountability. I remember reading a story years ago where a policewoman in the US knocked on a door and a kid with a wiimote opened it; she thought the wiimote was a gun therefore she shot him and killed him. He was white. I believe she didn't go to jail and kept her job as far as I'm aware of.

I don't mean to disregard the racism issue, it's just my observations as someone who isn't from the US. Everyone in a community suffers if the gov. people with the guns aren't held accountable for their actions.

For sure. Police brutality is a universal issue, but it is one which does a disproportionate amount of damage to poor and minority communities. And not just police brutality, but injustices throughout the entire justice system. The system needs foundational change and has needed change for generations. What we are seeing is not solely the result of any specific injustice, but a result of the failure of the system to change in a way which promotes justice for all.

While people can stand around and say "this isn't the way, lets come together and fix this", this isn't a new issue. We have failed to come together and fix this. We are now seeing the consequences of that failure.