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Forums - Politics Discussion - So, are we not gonna talk about this?

Nautilus said:

''Saying crap as all lives matter''? So you are saying some lives are more valuable than others?

I stopped reading at that point.



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I thought it was forbidden to not have clear topic names



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Human rights aren't a political issue in countries that aren't dictatorships. It only becomes political when certain politicians are against human rights, which is the case in the US. And it'll stay like that forever until people stop voting those politicians into power.



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mZuzek said:

Like... the whole thing that's going on right now?

I mean... I do have the politics section filtered out, so those threads don't show up for me. Apparently there is a little bit of it going on there. But is that fair? Is it fair to consider racism a political debate? I don't think it is. Racism is wrong. Common sense. It shouldn't be a matter of political opinion, it's something everyone should agree on, but that is quite clearly not the case.

There's people mad at Sony for postponing their PS5 showcase, I've seen it here and elsewhere. People trying to push the agenda around saying crap like "all lives matter" or "what about the vandalism" or whatever.

Honestly, fuck that. I'm really sad and angry at the current state of the world. Human society as a whole right now is in the worst place it's been for a long time, certainly for all my lifetime, so it's no wonder I feel this bad about it. It's not just about the US, either, anyone outside of it knows that. Everywhere in the world there's people suffering and dying because of assholes who don't give a flying fuck about anyone else. Maybe it's unfair to criticize it that way now, because to some extent that's always happened, especially in underdeveloped countries as those are used by the rich as a stepping stone for capitalism to "work". But today, this kind of stuff is happening everywhere, and often in disgustingly blatant fashion. It's not some cop killing a black person in some back alley with no one watching, it's in plain daylight. It's not political leaders trying to keep the economy running at the cost of lives from behind the scenes, it's them directly telling people to ignore the pandemic because the economy is more important than their lives.

It's too much, way too much. I can't endure this much shit and yeah I gotta vent somewhere. I don't know if other people here feel the same way, probably not, people want VGC to be an "escape" but right now there is no escaping the fucked up reality we live in.

I mostly try to avoid political discussion threads, so I just want to say a couple things.

1) You can filter out the politics section?  I didn't know that.  How do you do that?

2) The current state of the world does indeed suck.  I wish I could tell you that things will get better soon, but I would be lying if I said that.  All I can say is this.  Stay safe.  Stay vigilant.  Don't be surprised when things get worse.  It's the surprise factor that especially makes it all hard to stomach.  Focus on the people that care about you.  You are loved.



The_Liquid_Laser said:
mZuzek said:

Like... the whole thing that's going on right now?

I mean... I do have the politics section filtered out, so those threads don't show up for me. Apparently there is a little bit of it going on there. But is that fair? Is it fair to consider racism a political debate? I don't think it is. Racism is wrong. Common sense. It shouldn't be a matter of political opinion, it's something everyone should agree on, but that is quite clearly not the case.

There's people mad at Sony for postponing their PS5 showcase, I've seen it here and elsewhere. People trying to push the agenda around saying crap like "all lives matter" or "what about the vandalism" or whatever.

Honestly, fuck that. I'm really sad and angry at the current state of the world. Human society as a whole right now is in the worst place it's been for a long time, certainly for all my lifetime, so it's no wonder I feel this bad about it. It's not just about the US, either, anyone outside of it knows that. Everywhere in the world there's people suffering and dying because of assholes who don't give a flying fuck about anyone else. Maybe it's unfair to criticize it that way now, because to some extent that's always happened, especially in underdeveloped countries as those are used by the rich as a stepping stone for capitalism to "work". But today, this kind of stuff is happening everywhere, and often in disgustingly blatant fashion. It's not some cop killing a black person in some back alley with no one watching, it's in plain daylight. It's not political leaders trying to keep the economy running at the cost of lives from behind the scenes, it's them directly telling people to ignore the pandemic because the economy is more important than their lives.

It's too much, way too much. I can't endure this much shit and yeah I gotta vent somewhere. I don't know if other people here feel the same way, probably not, people want VGC to be an "escape" but right now there is no escaping the fucked up reality we live in.

I mostly try to avoid political discussion threads, so I just want to say a couple things.

1) You can filter out the politics section?  I didn't know that.  How do you do that?

2) The current state of the world does indeed suck.  I wish I could tell you that things will get better soon, but I would be lying if I said that.  All I can say is this.  Stay safe.  Stay vigilant.  Don't be surprised when things get worse.  It's the surprise factor that especially makes it all hard to stomach.  Focus on the people that care about you.  You are loved.

hot topics => show filters => uncheck politics



 "I think people should define the word crap" - Kirby007

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Instead of seeking to convince others, we can be open to changing our own minds, and seek out information that contradicts our own steadfast point of view. Maybe it’ll turn out that those who disagree with you actually have a solid grasp of the facts. There’s a slight possibility that, after all, you’re the one who’s wrong.

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Ljink96 said:
Eh, I understand your frustration. But in order to keep myself mentally stable I try not to get involved in things I can't change or things I find unethical and instead focus on what I can change. I can't change anything about the fact that Corona exists, but I can wear a mask. I can't go and protest and loot, but I will donate and make my voice heard. I will denounce racism and condemn it and the petty and disgusting racism that America can display is not acceptable. However, this does not give people the right to destroy businesses, loot, and even harm other people. That's not going to help anyone. That bastard was arrested and charged with murder and if you ask me, so far so good. Now if he's found innocent...holy hell.

I understand the frustration within the Black Community and it takes extreme measures like this to even let our concerns be heard, but I'm sure looting and violence isn't the best way to go about doing so. The other side is, we've tried peaceful protest before when other innocent unarmed black men were killed and our voices get brushed to the side. It continues to happen. And when enough becomes enough, you lose sight of reason.

People like to blame both sides of the situation and to an extent that's fair. But, how can we make it so that one side won't have a reason to protest nonviolently or violently? We need new legislation and protocol for American law enforcement. Obviously there's a disparity between how Cops handle African American and White citizens. If we've paid attention to the past few weeks we've seen White citizens weaponize the color of African American's skin because they know how Cops treat us only for all of those case to be the fault of those people. It's revolting. Something needs to change. Protect and Serving for some is not working.

I'm pretty weird in that way with my autism,i can let myself be involved in things but my sensitivity keeps building up while i do and it is not going being digested in the needed amount to not go in a panic after too much exposure on something i care about.

So in order to maintain decent mental health i need to pacify myself after too much exposure and put a step back out of discussions or activities,it is a form of sheduling stress intake that is always effecting everything i do sadly.My life was more easier when i was not on my own,had more mental capacity to put into just being a normal person like others.

And yes something needs to be fundamentally changed about the policeforce in the US,it is not only about skincolour but also about the whole system being flawed that results in incidents that could have been avoided with a system that forces cops to use more structured layered way of interacting with different kind of problems and not use badly millitary enforcement for damn near everything.

Last edited by Immersiveunreality - on 02 June 2020

JWeinCom said:
Moved to Politics Discussion.

Can you please explain the reasons for this being moved to Politics Discussion aside from having it in General? I wouldn't say a discussion surrounding racial inequality, police brutality and basic human rights needs to be pushed into a dark corner of the forums. A better move would be to change the title so people know we have a place to discuss what's going on in America right now, with matching support in major cities around the world.

-

On the actual topic itself, everyone out protesting has my complete support.

The people who barge into BLM discussion with "All Lives Matter" rhetoric are ignorant and there's probably a good chance that they're racist.



                            

Mar1217 said:

2) Honestly, if you gonna mourn for companies loosing material goods while actual people fighting for their rights are being oppressed, beaten and losing their lifes so they can actually hope to live a better life then I'll have to seriously question your humanity.
It's a situation where morality is certainly grey in cases because of this escalation, but we must not forget the crux of why people are in the streets right now :

To bring awareness and recognize that the lives of black people and other minorities are just as valuable as anyone else on this goddamn forsaken planet.

No amount of possessions and material goods should be valued as more important in any case.

quite sure looting and trashing stores doesn't help that perspective from a entrepreneur POV, or is that to much from the perspective of all lives matter?



 "I think people should define the word crap" - Kirby007

Join the Prediction League http://www.vgchartz.com/predictions

Instead of seeking to convince others, we can be open to changing our own minds, and seek out information that contradicts our own steadfast point of view. Maybe it’ll turn out that those who disagree with you actually have a solid grasp of the facts. There’s a slight possibility that, after all, you’re the one who’s wrong.

mZuzek said:
Nautilus said:

You lost at the moment you mocked that all lives don't matter the same way.

The difference between you and me is that I had the courtesy to give you a proper answer.

The moment you say "all lives matter" you're either being incredibly tactless or just lowkey racist. I think you're in the former group.

This movement sparks again in response to a white officer murdering a black man in cold blood for apparently no reason whatsoever. Would he have done it if it was a white man? Obviously not, because that's how racism works. In fact, it's very likely the police wouldn't have been contacted at all if it was a white man. This is all hypothetical, of course, but you know what isn't? History. I believe you understand history enough to know there's been kind of a trend for the past few thousand years or so, of white people abusing black people and killing them because of a thing called "race superiority". Somewhere in between all that, there was also a little thing called slavery.

The modern day society has quietened racism down quite a bit, but obviously it is still present in our lives. And for every case you find of a white person being abused by a black person, you'll find 10 times as many of it happening the other way around, if not more. Because that's the established norm of how our society operates. The USA has had a grand total of 1 black president (and on another topic, 0 females). What do you think caused that, coincidence? Come on.

I never "mocked" that all lives don't matter the same way. In fact, I never even said black lives matter. So, about that... yeah. Black lives matter. They don't matter more than other lives, no, you're right about that. But they matter. And the reason why we need to say that, is because there is clearly a large portion of the world's population who doesn't think that way. I've seen, in just this past day, dozens or even hundreds of abusive comments and actions directed at black people, for the sole reason being that they were born that way. Of course, that's how this whole movement started to begin with.

You say "both sides are wrong"... because some people in favor of the movement are destroying establishments and whatnot? One could make a point about peaceful protests never getting anything done in the long-term, because that's true, but at the end of the day the people doing this are wrong. They are a minority and they are wrong. But the wrong people on the other side, who are also a minority, are murderers. So by comparing both sides here, you're saying a murderer is just as bad as a vandal.

Of course, you got it wrong the moment you implied I value black lives above white, maybe not knowing I'm a white person? And really, I've had a great upbringing, with a nice and caring family who continues to pay for my life, and throughout my childhood all interactions I've had with adults were always telling me about how talented or special I was, always praising me for nothing. I studied in paid schools all my childhood, and in those 15 years or so, I remember seeing 1 black student. One. Out of like, a couple thousand or more. I don't have many friends now as a grown-up, but the ones I do I'm pretty close to. One of them is black. And he lives in a shithole, has a shit family filled with hate, he works his ass off just to find a job paying minimum wage. You get it already?

We as a society are taught that is how things are. That's just how they've always been. Because of the upbringing I've had, I'd have every reason in the world to look at someone like that and think I'm superior. I don't, because I've got at least some sense of compassion and understanding for others, but for a lot of people who've had a similar upbringing, it didn't work that way. If I go back and look at all the other privileged people I've studied alongside as kids, I'm gonna find not one, not two, but several racist people. White rich racists. Who live in a paradise mansion and travel abroad twice a year. But I've never met a single rich black person, not even close to it. Again... if you think that's coincidence, I'm just sorry for you.

I don't think anyone here disagrees with you. If anything, I agree with most of what you say. Racism exists, and it is mostly directed at people that are "diferent". Or were considered "different" 20 or 30 years ago, by westerns: Black, asian people and so on. And yeah, all these "coincidences" you talk about, they are not coincidences. Presidents are majority white and male because of that( though honestly, I don't have any problem with that and I don't thnink anyone should, simply because any job should be occupied by the most competent person, and not by any other reason. If that person is a black woman so be it. We should look at their skills, and their skills alone. But that's a discussion for another day). Differences in salaries were because of that(even if nowadays I don't think they really exist because of that anymore, in most countries anyways) and yeah, some of the police brutality towards some groups exist because of that. I don't disagree with you.

But I disagree with the method that is being taken here. A bad action dosen't justify another bad action, as you *seem* to have implied ("But the wrong people on the other side, who are also a minority, are murderers. So by comparing both sides here, you're saying a murderer is just as bad as a vanda"), especially given the culprit is seemingly going to pay for it's crimes. I think it was Malcom X that said:

“You're not to be so blind with patriotism that you can't face reality. Wrong is wrong, no matter who does it or says it.”

And that should be true for both sides. I'm not taking the protestors side, because what they are doing is wrong.They are ruining people's lives, no matter how justifiable their anger is. At the same time, I'm not taking the other side because what that cop did was wrong, and he should and will be punished for that.

But I also think that, people need to start taking the problem, the root problem, seriously, we will never get rid of it. You said that black people were slaves once. Yes they were. But white people were also turned into slaves before that. Right up until the end of the Roman Empire. What does that say to you? That all of this, all of this hatred for the other group, for the difference, is a cycle. If you don't treat the problem at it's core, that cycle will continue, only taking different forms. We are already seeing it. Cristians that were the "dominant group" are now being bullied. Gays were once accepted in the Ancient Rome, then were persecuted duringthe Middle Ages, and are nmow again accepted as normal. White people are now being attacked, by these same protestors that defend black people right, just by being white and being in the wrong place in the wrong time. If we don't treat this at it's core, what will happen in the next 20, 30 years? Some other group will be bullied upon and then society will rally to support it and may fix it. But then, given the laser focused effort into this one group, 50 or 60 years later another group will be bullied and be made fun of. And so on, and so on. Like you said, this repeats time and time again in history.

That's why I'm against saying " Black Lives Matter" and I'm actually in favor of "All Lives Matter". You may say that I'm being used to make fun of the movement, and to some extend you are right. But by the same definition, you are ALSO being used by these damn motherfuckers pillaging and destroying people properties that use the banner of being in favor of black lives to do those awful things. At the end of the day, the only thing I can do is stand for what I believe in, and hope that is good enough. In truth, that's all most people can do.



My (locked) thread about how difficulty should be a decision for the developers, not the gamers.

https://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=241866&page=1

Hiku said:
Nautilus said:

''Saying crap as all lives matter''? So you are saying some lives are more valuable than others? God, these situation bring the worst on people...

If a white person like myself says 'Black Lives Matter', I'm not suggesting that my life is less valuable.

I'm raising awareness of a particular problem that I think needs to be highlighted.
If you want to deflect and undermine the message as much as possible, you counter with 'All Lives Matter'. As if I ever claimed otherwise.

And even though it started with one scumbag with his knee on a black man's neck for 9 minutes, police brutality is an underlying issue. And it has now escalated to a whole slew of officers who need to be investigated for violent crimes. Shooting people's eyes out for just reporting the news, kicking people who are just sitting peacefully on the ground, accelerating with a car into a crowd, firing canisters at people for standing on their own porch, etc.

This is one of the reasons why this isn't over yet, in spite of the original officer now being arrested and charged with murder.

I'll repeat what I said to MZuzek, since I believe that captures the essence of the discussion and what I want to say to you:

I don't think anyone here disagrees with you. If anything, I agree with most of what you say. Racism exists, and it is mostly directed at people that are "diferent". Or were considered "different" 20 or 30 years ago, by westerns: Black, asian people and so on. And yeah, all these "coincidences" you talk about, they are not coincidences. Presidents are majority white and male because of that( though honestly, I don't have any problem with that and I don't thnink anyone should, simply because any job should be occupied by the most competent person, and not by any other reason. If that person is a black woman so be it. We should look at their skills, and their skills alone. But that's a discussion for another day). Differences in salaries were because of that(even if nowadays I don't think they really exist because of that anymore, in most countries anyways) and yeah, some of the police brutality towards some groups exist because of that. I don't disagree with you.

But I disagree with the method that is being taken here. A bad action dosen't justify another bad action, as you *seem* to have implied ("But the wrong people on the other side, who are also a minority, are murderers. So by comparing both sides here, you're saying a murderer is just as bad as a vanda"), especially given the culprit is seemingly going to pay for it's crimes. I think it was Malcom X that said:

“You're not to be so blind with patriotism that you can't face reality. Wrong is wrong, no matter who does it or says it.”

And that should be true for both sides. I'm not taking the protestors side, because what they are doing is wrong.They are ruining people's lives, no matter how justifiable their anger is. At the same time, I'm not taking the other side because what that cop did was wrong, and he should and will be punished for that.

But I also think that, people need to start taking the problem, the root problem, seriously, we will never get rid of it. You said that black people were slaves once. Yes they were. But white people were also turned into slaves before that. Right up until the end of the Roman Empire. What does that say to you? That all of this, all of this hatred for the other group, for the difference, is a cycle. If you don't treat the problem at it's core, that cycle will continue, only taking different forms. We are already seeing it. Cristians that were the "dominant group" are now being bullied. Gays were once accepted in the Ancient Rome, then were persecuted duringthe Middle Ages, and are nmow again accepted as normal. White people are now being attacked, by these same protestors that defend black people right, just by being white and being in the wrong place in the wrong time. If we don't treat this at it's core, what will happen in the next 20, 30 years? Some other group will be bullied upon and then society will rally to support it and may fix it. But then, given the laser focused effort into this one group, 50 or 60 years later another group will be bullied and be made fun of. And so on, and so on. Like you said, this repeats time and time again in history.

That's why I'm against saying " Black Lives Matter" and I'm actually in favor of "All Lives Matter". You may say that I'm being used to make fun of the movement, and to some extend you are right. But by the same definition, you are ALSO being used by these damn motherfuckers pillaging and destroying people properties that use the banner of being in favor of black lives to do those awful things. At the end of the day, the only thing I can do is stand for what I believe in, and hope that is good enough. In truth, that's all most people can do.



My (locked) thread about how difficulty should be a decision for the developers, not the gamers.

https://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=241866&page=1