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Forums - Politics Discussion - So, are we not gonna talk about this?

mZuzek said:
Nautilus said:

Because it has nothing to do with Gaming, wheter you agree with it or not.

Gaming and General discussion are two separate sections last time I checked?

JWeinCom said:

...

So that's my rationale.

Ok. I disagree, but you've justified your decision well enough so I guess we can leave it at that.

Mkay.  I honestly should have done the explanation when I moved it, so my bad on that.



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Nautilus said:
sundin13 said:

"Tactics based solely on morality can only succeed when you are dealing with people who are moral or a system that is moral." -Malcolm X

This isn't about the morality of violence. It is an inevitability. When people are deprived of justice for generations, there will come a time when they stop politely asking. We have again reached one of those moments. Spending your time attacking those who have boiled over with righteous anger propagates the very system which created these injustices, especially when this violence that you so despise is actively being fueled by the immorality of the police system day in and day out.

Even if it's understandable, it's the same kind of thinking that led to many wars and Dictatorships. Like some user already said before, do you think Nazism and Facism rose to power because they just took the power without the people consent? No. Germany and Italy was so destroyed after WW 1 that the people were literally starving. They were dying of common diseases. Those regimes gave them an "answer" that they liked back at that time, because it got them out of that misery, that allowed them to grab power. By the time they realized the shit they have done, it was too late.

But you think my example may be too extreme. That's fair. So let's give you a more grounded example. What about those stores that these protestors destroyed. Have you though about what will happen to their families? ESPECIALLY after this pandemic destroyed the economy of every single country? Do you care if they starve or don't have money to buy anything for their kids or to buy medicine? And in your reasoning, what if these same people that were attacked by the protesters decides to strike back? By your reasoning, it would be ok and understandable for them to beat them up, be them black or white. All in the name of justice...

My question to you is: Where we will end up, if what you said is regarded as something normal? Where and when this cycle of hate and violence will end?

It needs to be mentioned that the Nazi party didnt have a majority.
In europe alot of countries have goverments lead by & made up out of multiple-structured parties.

In 1933 the Nazi party had 37% of the vote, but with other parties supporting them (they wanted in goverment), it was enough to get a majorty.
It doesnt take many crazies believeing in something, for it to have horrible consequences. Remember Trump saying his supporters love him so much, he could walk down the street and shoot people, and they would cheer him on? Theres enough die hard trump supporters, to start a facist police state with him as a dictator.

Its a slippery slope, and it starts with small changes that just keep comeing.
Eventually you look back, and you even reconise your own society anymore, because its become so differnt than it used to be.

"Even if it's understandable, it's the same kind of thinking that led to many wars and Dictatorships. Like some user already said before, do you think Nazism and Facism rose to power because they just took the power without the people consent? No. Germany and Italy was so destroyed after WW 1 that the people were literally starving. They were dying of common diseases. Those regimes gave them an "answer" that they liked back at that time, because it got them out of that misery, that allowed them to grab power. By the time they realized the shit they have done, it was too late."


Trump uses alot of the same tactics.
Blame minorities for things not being "great" today as it used to be.
Promis to make "things great again". (dont worry he ll deport all those nasty mexicans! get your jobs back from china!)
Solution to deal with minorities..... build that wall! keep them out.
Attack the free press, you want your propaganda out there instead. #fake news anyone?
If your useing your own military to attack & suppress your own people... your pretty damn close to being a facist dictator yourself imo.


So your right, if the economy gets bad enough, it could lead to something silly... just like what happend in germany with the nazi party.
At the same time, trump fans keep ignoreing the slippery slope trump puts you on.

Last edited by JRPGfan - on 02 June 2020

JRPGfan said:
Nautilus said:

Even if it's understandable, it's the same kind of thinking that led to many wars and Dictatorships. Like some user already said before, do you think Nazism and Facism rose to power because they just took the power without the people consent? No. Germany and Italy was so destroyed after WW 1 that the people were literally starving. They were dying of common diseases. Those regimes gave them an "answer" that they liked back at that time, because it got them out of that misery, that allowed them to grab power. By the time they realized the shit they have done, it was too late.

But you think my example may be too extreme. That's fair. So let's give you a more grounded example. What about those stores that these protestors destroyed. Have you though about what will happen to their families? ESPECIALLY after this pandemic destroyed the economy of every single country? Do you care if they starve or don't have money to buy anything for their kids or to buy medicine? And in your reasoning, what if these same people that were attacked by the protesters decides to strike back? By your reasoning, it would be ok and understandable for them to beat them up, be them black or white. All in the name of justice...

My question to you is: Where we will end up, if what you said is regarded as something normal? Where and when this cycle of hate and violence will end?

It needs to be mentioned that the Nazi party didnt have a majority.
In europe alot of countries have goverments lead by & made up out of multiple-structured parties.

In 1933 the Nazi party had 37% of the vote, but with other parties supporting them, it was enough to get a majorty.

Its a slippery slope, and it starts with small changes that just keep comeing.
Eventually you look back, and you even reconise your own society anymore, because its become so differnt than it used to be.

"Even if it's understandable, it's the same kind of thinking that led to many wars and Dictatorships. Like some user already said before, do you think Nazism and Facism rose to power because they just took the power without the people consent? No. Germany and Italy was so destroyed after WW 1 that the people were literally starving. They were dying of common diseases. Those regimes gave them an "answer" that they liked back at that time, because it got them out of that misery, that allowed them to grab power. By the time they realized the shit they have done, it was too late."


Trump uses alot of the same tactics.
Blame minorities for things not being "great" today as it used to be.
Promis to make "things great again". (dont worry he ll deport all those nasty mexicans! get your jobs back from china!)
Solution to deal with minorities..... build that wall! keep them out.
Attack the free press, you want your propaganda out there instead. #fake news anyone?
If your useing your own military to attack & suppress your own people... your pretty damn close to being a facist dictator yourself imo.


So your right, if the economy gets bad enough, it could lead to something silly... just like what happend in germany with the nazi party.
At the same time, trump fans keep ignoreing the slippery slope trump puts you on.

nope because trumps supports israel



 "I think people should define the word crap" - Kirby007

Join the Prediction League http://www.vgchartz.com/predictions

Instead of seeking to convince others, we can be open to changing our own minds, and seek out information that contradicts our own steadfast point of view. Maybe it’ll turn out that those who disagree with you actually have a solid grasp of the facts. There’s a slight possibility that, after all, you’re the one who’s wrong.

kirby007 said:
JRPGfan said:

It needs to be mentioned that the Nazi party didnt have a majority.
In europe alot of countries have goverments lead by & made up out of multiple-structured parties.

In 1933 the Nazi party had 37% of the vote, but with other parties supporting them, it was enough to get a majorty.

Its a slippery slope, and it starts with small changes that just keep comeing.
Eventually you look back, and you even reconise your own society anymore, because its become so differnt than it used to be.

"Even if it's understandable, it's the same kind of thinking that led to many wars and Dictatorships. Like some user already said before, do you think Nazism and Facism rose to power because they just took the power without the people consent? No. Germany and Italy was so destroyed after WW 1 that the people were literally starving. They were dying of common diseases. Those regimes gave them an "answer" that they liked back at that time, because it got them out of that misery, that allowed them to grab power. By the time they realized the shit they have done, it was too late."


Trump uses alot of the same tactics.
Blame minorities for things not being "great" today as it used to be.
Promis to make "things great again". (dont worry he ll deport all those nasty mexicans! get your jobs back from china!)
Solution to deal with minorities..... build that wall! keep them out.
Attack the free press, you want your propaganda out there instead. #fake news anyone?
If your useing your own military to attack & suppress your own people... your pretty damn close to being a facist dictator yourself imo.


So your right, if the economy gets bad enough, it could lead to something silly... just like what happend in germany with the nazi party.
At the same time, trump fans keep ignoreing the slippery slope trump puts you on.

nope because trumps supports israel

Trump is fine with the jews :P
Dont worry about them, he'll likely start with rounding up all the mexicans, and maybe lateron moveing onto the afro americans.

Theres alot of US confederate flags at his rallies.
These are his "good people" that he knows, from the south.

Remember Steve bannon? ran his campagne, and all the ties he and his people had to white nationalists? White power groups.
Trump isnt a racist himself, he just happends to surround himself with tons of them? right?

Last edited by JRPGfan - on 02 June 2020

The only way things will change is if the people in charge change. Contrary to popular belief, elections DO matter--On this exact issue, our last president implemented consent decrees to at least try something, anything to get the racist cops out. The next president ended that effort.

Find out if your local sheriff maintains fair police practices or opposes them. Elect those who will act on this issue.

Your local City Attorney and District Attorney are in charge of enforcing the law on bad cops. Find out who yours are, and vote them out if they turn a blind eye to this issue.

Elect senators and a president who will appoint judges willing to overturn the destructive court decisions that for decades have placed cops above the law.

Choose elected officials who respect and protect EVERYONE'S rights, not the interests of particular demographic groups at the expense of others.

And for the love of god, do NOT assume that a D next to their name is a magic wand...there are PLENTY of Dems on the side of crooked cops as is--vote them out too!

Last edited by Mr_Destiny - on 02 June 2020

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Mr_Destiny said:

The only way things will change is if the people in charge change. Contrary to popular belief, elections DO matter--On this exact issue, our last president implemented consent decrees to at least try something, anything to get the racist cops out. The next president ended that effort.

Find out if your local sheriff maintains fair police practices or opposes them. Elect those who will act on this issue.

Your local City Attorney and District Attorney are in charge of enforcing the law on bad cops. Find out who yours are, and vote them out if they turn a blind eye to this issue.

Elect senators and a president who will appoint judges willing to overturn the destructive court decisions that for decades have placed cops above the law.

Choose elected officials who respect and protect EVERYONE'S rights, not the interests of particular demographic groups at the expense of others.

And for the love of god, do NOT assume that a D next to their name is a magic wand...there are PLENTY of Dems on the side of crooked cops as is--vote them out too!

^ this.

I think Biden has mild dementia.... and hes still a better option than Trump.
If I lived in NYC I'd get vote to get rid of Bill de Blasio (a democrate, I think), he has not handled things well there.

Last edited by JRPGfan - on 02 June 2020

Nautilus said:
sundin13 said:

"Tactics based solely on morality can only succeed when you are dealing with people who are moral or a system that is moral." -Malcolm X

This isn't about the morality of violence. It is an inevitability. When people are deprived of justice for generations, there will come a time when they stop politely asking. We have again reached one of those moments. Spending your time attacking those who have boiled over with righteous anger propagates the very system which created these injustices, especially when this violence that you so despise is actively being fueled by the immorality of the police system day in and day out.

Even if it's understandable, it's the same kind of thinking that led to many wars and Dictatorships. Like some user already said before, do you think Nazism and Facism rose to power because they just took the power without the people consent? No. Germany and Italy was so destroyed after WW 1 that the people were literally starving. They were dying of common diseases. Those regimes gave them an "answer" that they liked back at that time, because it got them out of that misery, that allowed them to grab power. By the time they realized the shit they have done, it was too late.

But you think my example may be too extreme. That's fair. So let's give you a more grounded example. What about those stores that these protestors destroyed. Have you though about what will happen to their families? ESPECIALLY after this pandemic destroyed the economy of every single country? Do you care if they starve or don't have money to buy anything for their kids or to buy medicine? And in your reasoning, what if these same people that were attacked by the protesters decides to strike back? By your reasoning, it would be ok and understandable for them to beat them up, be them black or white. All in the name of justice...

My question to you is: Where we will end up, if what you said is regarded as something normal? Where and when this cycle of hate and violence will end?

Don't compare a ruling class seizing power by oppressing minorities to minorities rising up to fight oppression.

These protests are not fascism. The response that we are seeing from the federal government is fascism. If you honestly want to fight against fascism, fight against the oppressive systems which these protesters are fighting against.

What about the stores? There are a lot of things that I have to say about that, to the extent that I don't even know how to begin. I guess I'll start by saying that I believe that the individuals and small businesses who have suffered as a result of these protests should be paid back. In many cases, they are. There are several charitable organizations who are seeking to help them out. As I've previously said, if you don't support the violence of these protests, instead of attacking those expressing their righteous anger, seek to build up those who you see doing good. One example of that is donating to these charitable organizations. I see that as an incredibly positive step that you can take.

But beyond that, I see the question about "what if they starve and don't have money to buy medicine" line to be a criticism of revolution through pointing out the injustices they are fighting against. If we truly lived in a just society, this wouldn't be a question. It should be the government's responsibility to provide a social safety net to the people. It should be the government's responsibility to provide healthcare and medicine to all who need it. This is largely tied to the greater injustice that these protests are built on. The systems that this country is built on harm the poor, each and every day. Every day, people suffer due to a lack of healthcare, and can't afford to purchase goods for their family. Do you fight against that broad injustice, affecting millions of Americans every year with the same voracity with which you fight against those seeking to end it?

So, that brings me to your last question: Where will this violence end?

With the justice that has been delayed for generations.



mZuzek said:

JWeinCom said:

...

So that's my rationale.

Ok. I disagree, but you've justified your decision well enough so I guess we can leave it at that.

Not to mention there was already a similar thread on this topic before you made this one... so technically this is kind of a redundant thread.  It’s a tad different, but not by much... which you probably never saw the first since it is in the politics section...

https://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread/242521/wtf-happen-in-us-my-honest-question-as-foreigner-/1/



SpokenTruth said:
Nautilus said:

A bad action dosen't justify another bad action,

True, but context is key. What led up to and triggered each bad act?

Act 1 - A cop killing George Floyd: A suspected counterfeit $20 bill.
Act 2 - Protesting, rioting, vandalism: 50+ years of being ignored for various peaceful protests and ongoing police brutality.

If you cannot understand the gravity of the difference here, then there is absolutely nothing left to discuss.

So are you out of arguments then? Because it seems that way.

I have another one for ya:

David Dorn, a retired black cop was murdered by these so called ''protestors of black rights''.

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/06/03/us/david-dorn-st-louis-police-shot-trnd/index.html

Yeah, I'm against all kinds of racism, but anyone who participates in this shit that is happening right now or defends that '' it's ok to destroy people livelihoods or murder people in the name of THE GREATER JUSTICE'' are a bunch of retards too.



My (locked) thread about how difficulty should be a decision for the developers, not the gamers.

https://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=241866&page=1

It says a lot about people who say: 'It's horrible that an innocent black man was killed, but destroying property has to stop'

Instead of 'It's horrible that property is being destroyed, but the killing innocent black men has to stop'



There's only 2 races: White and 'Political Agenda'
2 Genders: Male and 'Political Agenda'
2 Hairstyles for female characters: Long and 'Political Agenda'
2 Sexualities: Straight and 'Political Agenda'