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Forums - Gaming Discussion - How much do you care about the graphical leap between consoles at this point?

Chazore said:
Vodacixi said:
At this point I'm most interested in the raw processing jump rather than the graphical one. Especially in the AI department. It's 2020 and most NPCs/enemies behave just like they did 10, 15 or even 20 years ago. But I guess it will still take another generation until we see significant changes...

This is ultra specifically what I want from next gen games. I'm so sick and tired of AI having poor path finding, repeating the same 3-5 lines of dialogue, as well as not being able to do much, outside of players triggering certain events/NPC anchor points.

I want a game with AI that's able to think for itself within the game's world. I want to be able to convince certain AI to do their own quest, instead of always treating me like I'm the game world's magical butler (the vast if not all of RPG's/FPS games). I also want AI to be efficient in combat technique and maneuvers, instead of what we currently have, which are bots that just hide behind walls or peak around the same corner.

Also, for the love of god, make AI that do not RUBBER-BAND, or have to always see the entirety of a map. I'm so god damn sick of playing RTS games or any game that features stealth play, because 9/10 the AI knows 100% exactly where you are (like all the Fallout/Skyrim games, the AI always knows your location, and pretend like they don't, or C&C games that feature stealthed units, and the AI heads straight for them, making stealth/cloaking tech utterly useless). 

Rubber-band AI is lousy in racing games... like I start a race 20s behind first place because always start in last. In two laps (or sometimes one) I can pass all of them, meaning being 10s faster per lap. but after I pass him let's say doing even better laps will give me just 5s advantage, and if I open 15s then they will be doing same lap time as me even if I'm doing even better now.

And on the AI for the NPCs in the world, play the newer Yakuza games, sure you still have a lot of fetch quest and dumb thing that NPCs should do for themselves, but the city really seem to be living and the NPCs doing their own stuff independent of you.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

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RolStoppable said:
Very much. The leap from the Wii U to Switch was massive and if it hadn't been that way, I would have skipped the console.

I respectfully disagree. The 3DS to Switch was massive (only mentioning this because Switch is a hybrid). Even looking at 3DS and Wii U is of course a massive difference. But the Switch seems like a mid-gen upgrade (like a PS4 to PS4 Pro) to the Wii U on a specs level. It's about Wii U-level in portable mode, maybe a little better. And then it is undeniably superior to Wii U in docked mode. 

In a sense, Switch is kind of like the GameCube to Wii all over again as far as specs go. The Wii was basically just a clocked-up GameCube with more memory.

Switching gears, I think the reason the graphical leaps seems to be diminishing returns at this point is due to several factors. Frame rates and resolutions have been a bigger deal in console gaming from the 7th Gen onward than they ever have been. It takes a lot more processing power to run most games at 4K 60FPS. In the past, graphic fidelity itself (and memory for bigger worlds) was a big focus. Now it seems to be on resolution, frame rate, online fidelity, AI, and the like.



Lifetime Sales Predictions 

Switch: 156 million (was 73, then 96, then 113 million, then 125 million, then 144 million, then 151 million)

PS5: 115 million (was 105 million) Xbox Series S/X: 48 million (was 60 million, then 67 million, then 57 million)

PS4: 120 mil (was 100 then 130 million, then 122 million) Xbox One: 51 mil (was 50 then 55 mil)

3DS: 75.5 mil (was 73, then 77 million)

"Let go your earthly tether, enter the void, empty and become wind." - Guru Laghima

When we get a fully open word game that looks as good as God of War with fully destructible environments and HDR and running at 4K-60FPS, then I will be satisfied. 



RolStoppable said:
Very much. The leap from the Wii U to Switch was massive and if it hadn't been that way, I would have skipped the console.

Just be honest you never had a wiiU, the graphical upgrade from wiiU to switch is barely noticeable, way less difference than a ps4 to ps4 pro. I have both the wiiU and switch.

You might need glasses if you think the difference was massive. 



DonFerrari said:
Chazore said:

This is ultra specifically what I want from next gen games. I'm so sick and tired of AI having poor path finding, repeating the same 3-5 lines of dialogue, as well as not being able to do much, outside of players triggering certain events/NPC anchor points.

I want a game with AI that's able to think for itself within the game's world. I want to be able to convince certain AI to do their own quest, instead of always treating me like I'm the game world's magical butler (the vast if not all of RPG's/FPS games). I also want AI to be efficient in combat technique and maneuvers, instead of what we currently have, which are bots that just hide behind walls or peak around the same corner.

Also, for the love of god, make AI that do not RUBBER-BAND, or have to always see the entirety of a map. I'm so god damn sick of playing RTS games or any game that features stealth play, because 9/10 the AI knows 100% exactly where you are (like all the Fallout/Skyrim games, the AI always knows your location, and pretend like they don't, or C&C games that feature stealthed units, and the AI heads straight for them, making stealth/cloaking tech utterly useless). 

Rubber-band AI is lousy in racing games... like I start a race 20s behind first place because always start in last. In two laps (or sometimes one) I can pass all of them, meaning being 10s faster per lap. but after I pass him let's say doing even better laps will give me just 5s advantage, and if I open 15s then they will be doing same lap time as me even if I'm doing even better now.

And on the AI for the NPCs in the world, play the newer Yakuza games, sure you still have a lot of fetch quest and dumb thing that NPCs should do for themselves, but the city really seem to be living and the NPCs doing their own stuff independent of you.

Proof that you have been playing Gran Turismo, try forza next time, I know the feeling I was a fan of GT.



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rapsuperstar31 said:
The graphics better be noticeably higher quality If I'm paying $500+ for a system and maybe more if I have to buy an expensive special hard drive for the ps5 (I just can't see 825GB being enough). Nintendo systems are generally my favorite so graphics obviously aren't everything for me. The games ultimately make the system, and Sony does make some great games. Faster load times are welcome, ray tracing looks nice, and I do forward to seeing what they do with the next psvr.

You are paying way way more than 500.

console - 500

extra storage sony SSD - 100

online gaming x 7 years - 400

TOTAL - 1000 dollars before any games or second controller, a couple games will be 140dollars

CONCLUSION - I will finally leave consoles and go full PC, finally getting my nintendo games in 4k with 16xAA, and thousands upon thousands of compatible games, I already have a controller for it which is way better than the ps5 controller, my ps4 pro nacon revolution unlimited.



victor83fernandes said:

Just be honest you never had a wiiU, the graphical upgrade from wiiU to switch is barely noticeable

Your mistake was to take a post from Rolstoppable at face value, but I'll bite.

I own both a Wii U and a Switch and the upgrade in graphics, while obviously less than a normal generational leap due to Switch's mobile nature, is still definitely noticeable.

Going from Splatoon 1 to 2 you get better textures, shadows, resolution and effects.

Going from Mario 3D World to Odyssey you get much bigger, more detailed, and more complex areas with improved lighting, shaders, and effects work.

Going from Fast Racing Neo (probably the most graphically advanced game on Wii U) to FAST RMX you get a much higher resolution and upgraded lighting.

Games like Hellblade, Outlast II, and Luigi's Mansion 3 showcase a level of graphical sophistication that just wouldn't have been possible on the Wii U's much older and less advanced GPU.



victor83fernandes said:
DonFerrari said:

Rubber-band AI is lousy in racing games... like I start a race 20s behind first place because always start in last. In two laps (or sometimes one) I can pass all of them, meaning being 10s faster per lap. but after I pass him let's say doing even better laps will give me just 5s advantage, and if I open 15s then they will be doing same lap time as me even if I'm doing even better now.

And on the AI for the NPCs in the world, play the newer Yakuza games, sure you still have a lot of fetch quest and dumb thing that NPCs should do for themselves, but the city really seem to be living and the NPCs doing their own stuff independent of you.

Proof that you have been playing Gran Turismo, try forza next time, I know the feeling I was a fan of GT.

Proof? I love GTS, but that same phenomenon occurs on NF, DC and basically most racing games. And no I have no interest in drivatar and they copying bad playstile from bad drivers.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

RolStoppable said:
Very much. The leap from the Wii U to Switch was massive and if it hadn't been that way, I would have skipped the console.

Most of the improvements in most Wii U to Switch ports have just been increased framerates and resolution though, even in first party titles like Breath of the Wild, Mario Kart 8, Smash Brothers, Donkey Kong, Hyrule Warriors, New Super Mario Bros, Captain Toad and more... Just resolution and framerate rather than an uptick in visual fidelity.
They could have reworked some of the assets and adjusted the rendering pipeline to take advantage of the new hardware feature sets but generally they didn't.

It's a disappointing showing from first party titles in all honesty.

But when Nintendo does build games from scratch that uses the Switch's hardware, boy... Does it make me happy.
Links Awakening with it's impressive material shaders really really really impressed me, hence why it's probably my favorite Switch title thus far... And really wouldn't have been possible on Wii U without a plethora of visual compromises I think. - Is it a perfect game visually? Heck no. But it showed us some possibilities what the old Tegra is capable of.
Luigi's Mansion 3 showed off some impressive lighting and shadowing effects as well.

But overall, we haven't really had a hardware-defining game just yet, Breath of the Wild (A Wii U port) is still one of the platforms most technically impressive titles... And that released years ago, part of that is due to Nintendo's extremely strong art direction which hides the hardware deficiencies.

Wman1996 said:

Switching gears, I think the reason the graphical leaps seems to be diminishing returns at this point is due to several factors. Frame rates and resolutions have been a bigger deal in console gaming from the 7th Gen onward than they ever have been. It takes a lot more processing power to run most games at 4K 60FPS. In the past, graphic fidelity itself (and memory for bigger worlds) was a big focus. Now it seems to be on resolution, frame rate, online fidelity, AI, and the like.

It's much easier to improve shit visuals like PS1/N64 games and improve them multiples of times.
But when games start to look amazing with high quality and intricate assets, given they are still just rough "approximations" - It's much harder to get a multiples improvement.

I think most developers at this point have given up chasing the 4k-everything dream and will instead resort to frame-reconstruction of various types (Which the gaming industry has been experimenting with all generation long) and dynamic resolutions to make faux-4k in order to bolster visuals and retain a degree of framerate consistency.

We aren't at a point yet where consoles have the technology to run games at 4k, 60fps with Ray Tracing, next-gen won't do it, not for visually impressive titles anyway.

Once we look towards the generation after the 9th gen, we will probably start to see movements to more precise and expensive forms of rendering paths, rather than the current paradigm, Ray Tracing will finally come into it's own as well.
I'm excited.

This next gen though, the improvements aren't all in the graphics, simulation quality and complexity will take a leap forward instead.

victor83fernandes said:
RolStoppable said:
Very much. The leap from the Wii U to Switch was massive and if it hadn't been that way, I would have skipped the console.

Just be honest you never had a wiiU, the graphical upgrade from wiiU to switch is barely noticeable, way less difference than a ps4 to ps4 pro. I have both the wiiU and switch.

You might need glasses if you think the difference was massive. 

I don't disagree with you, there hasn't been many games that showcase the difference in hardware capabilities...
That is mostly Nintendo's fault.

But there is a significant hardware jump, not as significant as the jump between the Xbox 360 and Xbox One or Playstation 3 and Playstation 4, but it is still there.
We just haven't had the games to show off everything yet from first party.

But Doom, Wolfenstein, Witcher, Links Awakening, Luigi's Mansion 3 have showed it's got an edge over Wii U and there is still more to come.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

As someone who's mostly playing indie and retro games anyway, graphics are no big concern of mine. I prefer good games over beautiful games any time. Of course, if they are both great and beautiful, that's always a plus, but it's graphics are not what attracts me to a game.