Forums - Sony Discussion - SPOILERS The Last Of Us P2 SPOILERS

While it wasn't a 10/10 for me like it is for many, I did enjoy the first game, and I've always loved Naughty Dog, so it's been pretty sad hearing all this shit surrounding them right now. Eventually caved and decided to spoil it, and yeah I definitely don't approve of possibly the main characters dying to make room for someone of no consequence to the original game. If Abby's connection to the main characters is really one of those no name doctors with half a minute of screen time, seems like a good sign this sequel was forced and not well planned. Once we see the execution my view could change, but I'm not confident. It strangely feels like this has happened before, hmm.

vonny said:

Ellie is not a defenseless victim, she's killed dozen of Abby's friend by that point. You reap what you sow and Joel and Ellie have caused nothing but pain we cna love the characters but we weren't meant to side with their actions.

So it's going to be challenging? Yea sure that what makes it interesting, so maybe people stop complaining and she how they actually tackle her development and if they fail to make a connection than complain other wise it's pissing into the wind 

Complaining about about complainers is pissing to the wind as it will achieve nothing. If the game turns out great, then the complainers will stop complaining and likely become avid praisers, so you don't need to defend a million dollar company by trying to stop them. Also, criticism is not pissing into the wind, it's how anything gets better. While criticisms aren't always 100% valid, at least you know they care actually about the game and want it to be good.



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JWeinCom said:

In that particular game though the designer chose to make the gameplay that way for a particular reason.  He particular designed the gameplay that way because he didn't want to portray aggression in a positive light, and instead wanted to portray defensive action as a virtue.  Isn't that a political statement that the designer was making?

Likewise, I think there is a statement (not necessarily an agenda) being made whenever a heterosexual couple is portrayed.  When heterosexuals are portrayed in a positive light, that reflects what how the developers feel about heterosexual romance.  I'm not saying Square went into this with a purpose of WE MUST CONVERT THE HETEROPHOBIC or anything else, but the way they design the story is reflective of their views.  Just happens to be a view that basically nobody disagrees with.  

To use another example, a commercial in the US was deemed "controversial" because it featured two dads.  It doesn't make a big deal out of it, just two dads getting their kids to eat Cheerios.  Is this a "pro-homosexual" agenda?  If so, why wouldn't a commercial with a heterosexual couple, be "pro-heterosexual" agenda?

There's a joke that I'm probably not telling right.  Two fish are in the water.  One of them says "how's the water today"?  The other says, "What the fuck is water?"

In the same way, we are surrounded by political messages in pretty much any story telling medium.  What is portrayed as positive or negative reflects the developer's positions. But when the message is one that is universally accepted and not questioned, we tend not to question it.  It's only when the particular political message is one people disagree with that it gets noticed.  

Certainly, you can see political messaging in everything if you analyze every detail. And yes, people at large don't perceive something as political when it falls in line with how the vast majority of the world works. Your approach to this topic differs from mine, but we both arrive pretty much at the same conclusion. I say that video games are largely free of political messages, you say there are political messages in virtually everything, but the majority of those messages don't create an issue because people don't perceive them as an attempt to make a political statement or send a political message. This point of discussion is very much narrowed down to semantics.

My original response to you pointed out that the strong negative reactions towards TloU2 aren't solely due to political messaging, but also because Naughty Dog went as far as killing off main characters for good (Ellie still unconfirmed), so the anger isn't overwhelmingly driven by people with phobiae. I think we agree on most things, if not all of them, and I am not one to sort out all semantics and argue over them for pages.



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Killing off a main character that the player has a bond to, and then have the player take control of the killer is a risky move for sure, as the writers risk losing the player if that transition is executed poorly. But at the same time it's decisions like these that ultimately moves writing forward and expand the ways for how we can tell stories in games. As far as I'm concerned it's also a great example of how gaming as a medium can take writing to places that books and films can not, in how games forces us to not only view the story from the perspective of the antagonist but also interact with that character. To me that's intriguing.



vonny said:
sales2099 said:

Because she killed someone that you admitted players spent more time actually playing as. Also fighting Ellie as a final boss. The image of Abby choking out Ellie is very unsettling, and not in a good way. Compared to Abby (the shot of her arm muscles in particular) Ellie looks like a defenceless victim. And this is the other fan favourite that you spend the first half of the game playing as, on top of the first games character building. Killing Joel and forcing the gamer to beat Ellie within an inch of her life makes any character building of Abby by ND a seriously uphill battle. 

Ellie is not a defenseless victim, she's killed dozen of Abby's friend by that point. You reap what you sow and Joel and Ellie have caused nothing but pain we cna love the characters but we weren't meant to side with their actions.

So it's going to be challenging? Yea sure that what makes it interesting, so maybe people stop complaining and she how they actually tackle her development and if they fail to make a connection than complain other wise it's pissing into the wind 

You can’t tell fans to not side with characters they are attached to without some form of blowback. Until the game comes out the leaks and characters fans know are all there is to talk about. 

Complaining gets things to change. It happens because people care. Complainers are literally people telling the company how to earn their money. I firmly believe ND put their personal message above fans, and they will make themselves heard. 

Last edited by sales2099 - on 04 May 2020

 

 

sales2099 said:
vonny said:

Ellie is not a defenseless victim, she's killed dozen of Abby's friend by that point. You reap what you sow and Joel and Ellie have caused nothing but pain we cna love the characters but we weren't meant to side with their actions.

So it's going to be challenging? Yea sure that what makes it interesting, so maybe people stop complaining and she how they actually tackle her development and if they fail to make a connection than complain other wise it's pissing into the wind 

You can’t tell fans to not side with characters they are attached to without some form of blowback. Until the game comes out the leaks and characters fans know are all there is to talk about. 

Complaining gets things to change. It happens because people care. Complainers are literally people telling the company how to earn their money. I firmly believe ND put their personal message above fans, and they will make themselves heard. 

I can't wait to play this. Either Druckman has gone completely bat shit crazy and actually forces people to play half the game as the most hated character in video game history. Or... all the leaks are completely taken out of context and it will be another master piece. If it's the first, I'll still want to see how bad the story is, but I have enough faith in ND to think its the later.

People are all going bunkers about Abby killing Ellie as the final boss and are convinced that's the whole plot. However, didn't we already see that Abby spares her and her pregnant gf after the boss fight? Doesn't look like the end of the game to me and I'm sure there's more to the story than just some angry she-hulk killing of all our beloved characters. My bet is that the game will raise a lot of questions as to who the good guys and the villains are but that it will end on a emotional, positive note. A bit like Westworld season 3.  

Last edited by goopy20 - on 06 May 2020

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Interesting tweet from Troy Baker who voices Joel. 

"Posting this because I want to. 

Because I believe in this team.

Because I’ve waited six years to experience this story as it was intended. 

Because you might think you know.

But you don’t.

Because I’m proud of this game.

Because I chose to be a part of it.

Because I AM Joel."

Ive bolded 2 of the sentences. It's obvious the gameplay leaks are real as they're there for us to see but maybe some of the text leaks might be false?! 



PSN ID: Stokesy 

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goopy20 said:
sales2099 said:

You can’t tell fans to not side with characters they are attached to without some form of blowback. Until the game comes out the leaks and characters fans know are all there is to talk about. 

Complaining gets things to change. It happens because people care. Complainers are literally people telling the company how to earn their money. I firmly believe ND put their personal message above fans, and they will make themselves heard. 

I can't wait to play this. Either Druckman has gone completely bat shit crazy and actually forces people to play half the game as the most hated character in video game history. Or... all the leaks are completely taken out of context and it will be another master piece. If it's the first, I'll still want to see how bad the story is, but I have enough faith in ND to think its the later.

People are all going bunkers about Abby killing Ellie as the final boss and are convinced that's the whole plot. However, didn't we already see that Abby spares her and her pregnant gf after the boss fight? Doesn't look like the end of the game to me and I'm sure there's more to the story than just some angry she-hulk killing of all our beloved characters. My bet is that the game will raise a lot of questions as to who the good guys and the villains are but that it will end on a emotional, positive note. A bit like Westworld season 3.  

Pretty sure Ellie doesn’t die, and the core speculation is that the game ends on a note where “revenge never ending cycle”, “nobody is good or bad”, and “revenge doesn’t bring closure you wanted”. All profound themes, however it is dampened by playing as the “she hulk” beating Ellie within an inch of her life, coupled with Joel earlier. For your sake I hope that isn’t the ending and there is more after that. 

My bias aside I know the gameplay will be near flawless and story in between the major scenes will be very well done. Probably a feminist comment thrown in occasionally but I don’t see it being a common occurrence. It’ll end up being like Star Wars Last Jedi: Critical acclaim but vocal angry core fans. Will sell millions, though I doubt it will sell more then the first. 



 

 

StokedUp said:

Interesting tweet from Troy Baker who voices Joel. 

"Posting this because I want to. 

Because I believe in this team.

Because I’ve waited six years to experience this story as it was intended. 

Because you might think you know.

But you don’t.

Because I’m proud of this game.

Because I chose to be a part of it.

Because I AM Joel."

Ive bolded 2 of the sentences. It's obvious the gameplay leaks are real as they're there for us to see but maybe some of the text leaks might be false?! 

I'm sure the cut scenes are real, but they're missing context and now everybody is taking it for fact that the story is some insane SJW revenge story. The text leaks got mostly debunked, though. Like Abby being a transsexual and that she end up slaughtering Ellie. Not sure about the part where you get to play half the game as Abby, but maybe there are just some sequences and you end up playing mostly as Ellie. Ahh well, hopefully the new trailer will shed some light on it. 



StokedUp said:

"Because I AM Joel."

Then you are also dead.

There better be more to story than this. Abby needs to have bigger goals and ambitions beyond just killing Joel. I'm not super confident this will be the case, there's still the fact that her link to the main characters is an extremely thin and lazy excuse for this game's existence. Using their logic:

Last of Us Part 3 - Turns out a random no name Abby killed on her revenge quest has a cousin named Tom. We never saw or heard of him, but now he's out to get revenge on Abby.

Last of Us Part 4 - Turns out a random no name Tom killed on his revenge quest has a grandma named Joan. We never saw or heard of her, but now she's out to get revenge on Tom.



vonny said:
Leynos said:

Where do you get the nourishment to be that built-in a world so desolate? Takes a lot of food and not just any food to keep that build with extreme workouts. Even if you had a decent supply of food. Al the activity of doing things yourself would build more of a lean muscle. Her look is clearly just video game,she big and scary looking next to Ellie. Does it have to be realistic? No not with mushroom zombies but I can see how it takes some people out of it. Like the fat guy on Lost. How did he stay fat with so little food?

She would only need 100 grams of protein a day to maintain her muscle mass, this isn't hard to do. Rabbit/Veal both food sources we saw in the first game are 30/25 grams per 100grams. One egg is 6-8 grams ect. Rabbits can be killed from little as 10 weeks for 2kg of meat(600 grams of protein) just from one breeding pair you have enough food for entire life time, theoretically you can breed 3.5 million rabbits in 4 years starting from 2.

I was more curious how Abby found the estrogen.

Also, doesn't taking estrogen reduce muscle mass? Because Abby is jacked as fuck.

Abby has perky tits, big muscles and a fat hog. Its the perfect woman.



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