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Forums - Politics Discussion - Official 2020 US Presidential Election Thread

badskywalker said:
Jaicee said:

You act as if he's just another average American who bears merely an equal, but not greater, responsibility for the current covid situation in this country than the average citizen does. No, he's the President of the United States! No one is more responsible for the public policy of this country than that specific individual! He, as such, bears the primary responsibility for the current covid situation in this country. There is no getting around this.

Also, Kellyanne Conway has now tested positive for covid-19 as well.

Whilst I do agree with you that a fair amount of blame should be placed on Trump, I feel like the entire system really wasn't prepared for this at all. Trump's early actions did by no means help this, but the lack of bipartisanship in Congress over the last few months is worrying. You judge the character of a man not when he is at his best, but when they are at their worst, I use this concept for judging most things, and must I say Congress over the last decade or so is absolute crap. What I am getting at is Trump is currently the face for a much larger issue.

While that is true, Trump had tremendous potential to influence Congress as well. If he were to put pressure on Senate Republicans to take action, they would have been forced to take action. Essentially, Trump's inaction enabled the Senate's inaction so while we can certainly say "The Senate did not act appropriately", we have to understand that these issues are interlinked.



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Trump tests positive for covid19. Joe biden tests positive for shewasnt19. Strange times we all live in. Trump is the best president we had in years.



sundin13 said:
badskywalker said:

Whilst I do agree with you that a fair amount of blame should be placed on Trump, I feel like the entire system really wasn't prepared for this at all. Trump's early actions did by no means help this, but the lack of bipartisanship in Congress over the last few months is worrying. You judge the character of a man not when he is at his best, but when they are at their worst, I use this concept for judging most things, and must I say Congress over the last decade or so is absolute crap. What I am getting at is Trump is currently the face for a much larger issue.

While that is true, Trump had tremendous potential to influence Congress as well. If he were to put pressure on Senate Republicans to take action, they would have been forced to take action. Essentially, Trump's inaction enabled the Senate's inaction so while we can certainly say "The Senate did not act appropriately", we have to understand that these issues are interlinked.

This is fair. I 100% agree.



Jaicee said:
KLXVER said:

He could have done a better job with the virus, sure, but putting the blame solely on him doesnt seem like a very productive argument either.

You act as if he's just another average American who bears merely an equal, but not greater, responsibility for the current covid situation in this country than the average citizen does. No, he's the President of the United States! No one is more responsible for the public policy of this country than that specific individual! He, as such, bears the primary responsibility for the current covid situation in this country. There is no getting around this.

Also, Kellyanne Conway has now tested positive for covid-19 as well.

Seven fucking people that we know of from that rose garden bullshit got it including two members of the judiciary committee. Fucking insane.

badskywalker said:
Jaicee said:

You act as if he's just another average American who bears merely an equal, but not greater, responsibility for the current covid situation in this country than the average citizen does. No, he's the President of the United States! No one is more responsible for the public policy of this country than that specific individual! He, as such, bears the primary responsibility for the current covid situation in this country. There is no getting around this.

Also, Kellyanne Conway has now tested positive for covid-19 as well.

Whilst I do agree with you that a fair amount of blame should be placed on Trump, I feel like the entire system really wasn't prepared for this at all. Trump's early actions did by no means help this, but the lack of bipartisanship in Congress over the last few months is worrying. You judge the character of a man not when he is at his best, but when they are at their worst, I use this concept for judging most things, and must I say Congress over the last decade or so is absolute crap. What I am getting at is Trump is currently the face for a much larger issue.

Trump's actions alone are worthy of condemnation. His party also controls the Senate. The democrats control the house. Did they do anything that would inhibit the response? I'm not aware of it, but let me know.

As for Congress, there has been a systematic effort to defund and weaken congress by the Republican party over the last 20 years or so since Newt Gingrich took power. In particular they decimated Congresses' access to impartial sources of information such as the Congressional Research Party, and have continually fought against increased staffing for Congress members despite the workload increase as their constituencies grew. There was a concerted effort to centralize power in the head of the party.

I was working for one of my law professors over the summer looking into it. There are a lot of better sources chronicling the change, but this is the most accessible and readable. https://washingtonmonthly.com/magazine/junejulyaug-2014/the-big-lobotomy/



Snoopy said:
Trump tests positive for covid19. Joe biden tests positive for shewasnt19. Strange times we all live in. Trump is the best president we had in years.

I'd suggest coming up with some evidence from a reputable source real quick. 



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Like I said to Sundin13, I 100% agree with the Trump party is in control of the senate.

Also the part about weakening congress is definitely true, they had their research budget slashed (which is how thorough bills got well researched) and it is, ultimately, the result from Newt Gingrinch. 



Snoopy said:
Trump tests positive for covid19. Joe biden tests positive for shewasnt19. Strange times we all live in. Trump is the best president we had in years.

He's the ONLY president we've had in years, Baboso.



badskywalker said:

Whilst I do agree with you that a fair amount of blame should be placed on Trump, I feel like the entire system really wasn't prepared for this at all. Trump's early actions did by no means help this, but the lack of bipartisanship in Congress over the last few months is worrying. You judge the character of a man not when he is at his best, but when they are at their worst, I use this concept for judging most things, and must I say Congress over the last decade or so is absolute crap. What I am getting at is Trump is currently the face for a much larger issue.

When a crisis befalls the nation, do people look to the Speaker of the House for leadership? No, they look to the President of the United States. National crises empower the president. They can empower him to navigate the country through successfully or empower him to lead it to ruin. What we have here qualifies as the latter.

Let me alternately put it to you this way: a recent Cornell University study found President Trump to be the single leading cause of coronavirus misinformation across the English-speaking world. According to their data, 38% of the covid "misinformation conversation" can be traced backward to Donald Trump. There is no getting around what the problem is here no matter how hard you try.



Jaicee said:
KLXVER said:

He could have done a better job with the virus, sure, but putting the blame solely on him doesnt seem like a very productive argument either.

You act as if he's just another average American who bears merely an equal, but not greater, responsibility for the current covid situation in this country than the average citizen does. No, he's the President of the United States! No one is more responsible for the public policy of this country than that specific individual! He, as such, bears the primary responsibility for the current covid situation in this country. There is no getting around this.

Also, Kellyanne Conway has now tested positive for covid-19 as well.

Not sure where you got that from, but obviously hes more responsible than the average citizen. However people will do what they want to do. Some wear masks and some dont. Some practice social distancing and some dont. He cant control people. He could have been a better role model for people I guess, but at the end of the day, people do what they think is right for them. He put that Fauci guy front and center for people to listen to. Some did and some didnt.



EricHiggin said:
Cyran said:

I think even if it symbolic it better to condemn a hate groups rather then offer language they find supportive.  Also if he had just answered the original question by saying "I condemn all hate groups including white supremist groups"  that would of been the end of it.  remember he was the one that asked for the specific group to condemn then failed to do so.  It not rocket science it just it seem every time Trump asked this question he have trouble making the one simple sentence it would require to end it.

As for the rest of your post this about Trump and Biden and I read Biden statement he wished for a quick and full recovery of trump and even pulled off the air negative Ads so where he stand on that topic is clear.

Trump did have the question posed to him, yet you have to also ask yourself, why wasn't similar posed to Biden? Antifa got brought up, but a response of, 'it's just an idea' was acceptable? That ends it right there then, because supremacy is also just an idea. Either you hound both of them for straight answers or you allow both to get away without properly answering. If you don't, you're taking sides and that's not then a fair debate, which is why Trump pointed out he was seemingly debating with the moderator and not Biden at one point.

Biden himself isn't the same as the radical left, everyone knows this. The question about Biden is can he hold them off for 4 or 8 years, considering he's no Trump? Based on what they've done to Trump to try and get their way, will they really stand idly by and let Biden do his own thing? Maybe, maybe not, but are people willing to take that risk, because if they manage to get their way, it's not going to be what the people voted for.

Lastly, if covid doesn't hit Trump that hard overall, this mindset is going to make some of the undecided think twice about voting Dem. Having lefties, radical they may be, cheering for the demise of President during his illness, there's no way that doesn't put a sour taste in undecided voters mouths. For those that come across this, some will likely refrain from voting Dem like they were leaning, and some may decide to vote Rep. Hate is a powerful tool even when used as defense.

Wallace had a hard time asking Biden follow up because Trump kept wanting to respond to every thing Biden said that eventually Wallace just gave a question to Trump.  If you listen to the exchange before that question Wallace was trying to drill Biden on the riots but trump kept interrupting every time Biden said anything which made it hard to do follow up questions.

But in the end nothing that Biden or Wallace did made Trump give his answer and saying the answer I said is not difficult and I really don't see why he has such a hard time saying it. 

If the best defense for Trump answer is that he should not ever been ask the question then it seem like a very weak defense to me.