AsGryffynn said:
sundin13 said:
Both myself and JWein are supporting Biden in this election and made that very clear. No worries, but it seems weird to assume that someone is apolitical knowing nothing about them...
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Gee I get it... To be honest, I should've expected most of the people in this thread to be voters instead of observers like me who are not American.
haxxiy said:
Why would that be, pray tell? Partisan lean was about the same for all three in 2016, and we know Texas is trending Democratic while Iowa and Ohio aren't. Polls are also similar for the three, and we know errors favoring Dems in the Southwest are just as common as those favoring Reps in the Midwest. Unless you think Biden can somehow reverse back to the Obama coalition in spite of demographic shifts and polls showing his strength is suburban college-educated Whites and Trump's with exurban non-college-educated Whites...
Also, JWein is a Biden supporter and has admitted plenty of times he frames news according to his perspective, so no need to pick on him for that.
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Because trending Democratic and flipping are two different things. The red majority in Texas is way too monumental to change in the span of one term. If Texas turns blue, it's almost a mathematical certainty other deep red states do as well. It's pretty much a "Red Shield" much like the Blue Wall the Dems touted.
I think it could go either way, but the winner isn't going to reach far. I could see a victory with less than 280 votes. I think Trump would win by a hair's breadth (around 2 to 4 votes over the post) and Biden would barely scrap 300 if he does (even though the vote is going to be over 6 million in gap).
padib said:
Brother, you will not find anything apolitical in this thread. Don't believe anyone, not even OP or a moderator to be apolitical. Here we have a thread where good is characterising things pro-biden, and bad things pro-trump.
It all boils down to this: the world has taken our jobs, businesses, churches, families and put us in lockdown. They will impoverish us, and then will exchange our liberties for the acquittal of our debts. There will be human tracking and control at every level. The only main political leader who has proven to be fighting against this is Trump.
So for those who are awake to this agenda, it's fairly easy to decide on what is good and on who to vote, and it's Trump.
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Man, I recognize both candidates have pros and cons, which is why I tried to ask for an apolitical opinion. I do favor Trump slightly but not because Trump has good policies, but because if we ever had a shot of getting rid of bipartisan first past the post voting in the US, it's now. If the Dems lose, they'll know that 2016 was definitely not a fluke and they need drastic and radical change or they will collapse and spawn two smaller parties that will rapidly absorb votes from Green and GOP voters and lead to the collapse of bipartisanship which would allow for an actual tear down of the Electoral College. The issue is tearing down the EC with a two party system: by demographics alone, it would lead to a Dominant Party state with the Democratic Party taking on a position not different from that of United Russia. A popular vote system needs a third competitor so geography and demographics no longer determine the share of the vote like it does today.
If they win, expect to see the Democratic Party put off many "radical" reforms that are already well over thirty five years overdue. That's why I want them to lose.
OTOH, if the GOP loses, not much changes on their end and they go back to the Neoliberal approach that produced clones of Reagan with far less charisma. They win, and we already have a clear right wing party. Then the court falls on the Dems court. If they repeat this a third time, the people are just going to throw their arms up and leave, which is already a good thing since it means they will still tear down the bipartisan structure of the state, even if they do so without the Democratic Party's support or cloud.
If Trump wins and things go well, expect the next election run to feature the DSA vs the Democratic Center Party vs the GOP.
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First off, Texas is not so monumentally red. Of the 30 or so states Trump won, Texas was the 9th closest. Trump's margin of victory there was about the same as it was in Iowa. It was within 10 points, less than half of what it was in 2000. It shifted towards the Democrats in 2016, despite almost every other state shifting right. Ted Cruz won the senate race there by 2% in 18.
Your theory is a bit... odd. I'm not sure how you expect your scenario to lead to anything but decades of GOP control. The "radical" part of the democratic party is not large enough to be a major force without the moderate democrats as part of the party. And if Joe Biden isn't "center" enough to get GOP voters away from Trump, that faction of the party is not going to be able to garner much support. I'm not sure how you expect either of those parties to compete with the GOP if it's unified by a Trump win. Three parties won't work if one of them has 40+ percent of the vote. You'd have to get to a situation where the Democrat+DSA or whatever you think will happen together can prevent the republicans from getting 270 electoral votes, and also win enough state legislatures that they can somehow form a sort of coalition government when the vote goes to the house... Which seems... unlikely.
And, it's not likely that Trump will win by such a margin that the democrats will just give up as a party or split. It didn't happen when Reagan won twice, by way bigger margins than Trump possibly could, or when Bush won twice in a row. If Trump wins, it will likely be a slight electoral victory, and a popular vote loss, which isn't likely to make the Democrats so defeated that they'll simply give up, especially if they maintain control of at least one house of congress. It's more likely that the GOP would split if there was a Trump landlslide. Trump is such a polarizing figure who will refuse to let go of control of the party.
And... in the meantime there are dire consequences in regard to the ongoing Covid pandemic, the right to bodily autonomy, 4 more years of not doing anything to combat global warming, the potential loss of healthcare for millions, loss of rights for gay and trans people, and so on. We have someone utterly incompetent in charge of responding to whatever threat may emerge. This time it was Covid, who knows what it could be next time. Plus you have someone who has shown to have no plan to address the racial issues in the country, and has consistently made the violence cities are dealing with worse. If America's position in the world declines, then either Russia or China fills that gap, and I don't know if that's a good thing.
Let's say you're right and that if Trump wins, the Democratic party will become two viable parties at some point within the next decade. Maybe that's good for you watching from Spain. We actually have to live through for at least 4, and more likely 12+ years. And with the way Trump is handling things, a lot of people are not going to make it there.
Honestly, based on your views it seems like you sort of get the big picture in American politics, but don't really know the details. For instance, how red Texas is or how a three party dynamic would play out. Granted, you know way more about my country's politics than I do about yours, but I don't think you know quite enough to make the kinds of predictions you're making.
Last edited by JWeinCom - on 02 November 2020