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Forums - General Discussion - Coronavirus (COVID-19) Discussion Thread

The equivalent of that story would be the new governor of New York reporting that an additional 12,000 deaths were being hidden from the public by Cuomo. Then adding that 12,000 to the count and saying New York has 12,000 deaths in a single day. That would also be false.



...to avoid getting banned for inactivity, I may have to resort to comments that are of a lower overall quality and or beneath my moral standards.

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The "I'm not a sheep" crowd poison themselves with sheep dewormer:



TallSilhouette said:

The "I'm not a sheep" crowd poison themselves with sheep dewormer:

Funny thing is, the drug actually works and the sad thing is that people have to resort to taking animals versions because the well funded and coordinated campaign against the drug makes it difficult to acquire through normal means. And according to the report everyone had mild symptoms from ivermectin, only 1 person needed treatment. As a 200lb man, I could honestly take half a tube of horsepaste(the right kind) daily for 5 days and be  A-ok.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41429-021-00430-5

https://ivmmeta.com/

Apparently, with early aggressive treatment you can greatly reduce disease severity, disease symptoms and duration, hospitalization rates and death...

Tell me, why is it that a handful of doctors on a shoestring budget managed to create a treatment protocol that is far superior to what all these governments and health entities with their tremendous access to $$$ and world-class experts put out?? hmm, something odd is going on but most normies can't handle the real truth. If you want real coronavirus treatment options/news you oughtta follow the FLCCC and watch their weekly updates, can't watch it on YouTube due to censorship... So you have to go over to odysee or their webpage. Here check out their treatment protocols. And remember, these guys were the first ones to say use corticosteroids during the pulmonary phase of the illness, months before the WHO recommended weak ass dexamethasone.

https://covid19criticalcare.com/covid-19-protocols/i-mask-plus-protocol/

This sums up my feelings/thoughts on the jab, the people incessantly manipulating/pressuring you to get it are the same ones hiding/censoring all the treatment options.

Last edited by useruserB - on 01 September 2021

useruserB said:

This sums up my feelings/thoughts on the jab, the people incessantly manipulating/pressuring you to get it are the same ones hiding/censoring all the treatment options.

Just thought it'd be worth mentioning that this is just a construct of this user's mind. The only information we have even close to this kind of comparison is vaccination rate vs. education level and there's no hyperbolic curve like this it just goes up and up. 

https://bloustein.rutgers.edu/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/Health_Policy_Brief_Vaccination_US_May21.pdf

To toss in some anecdotal points here I've worked at two different research facilities since the vaccine was available and believe me we are all getting vaccinated. The place I work at currently has 95% vaccination rate. 

Just thought I'd mention that since as a chemist I feel like the illustrations are suggesting that PhD chemists (those that look at Erlenmeyer flasks of orange shit all day) are not getting vaccinated because we know better somehow. There is no evidence to that.



...

RolStoppable said:

It seems that vaccination has hit a block in the road in most (or all?) developed countries. No shortage of vaccines anymore, but a shortage of people who are willing to get their shots.

I just hope there's no stubborn insistence that the world has to become corona-free, but that instead we move on to accept that corona will continue to be around and won't have to deal with nonsensical measures anymore.

People who refuse to get a vaccination may be a potential problem for spreading the virus, but as I understand it, the only people who are in actual continued danger of current and future spreads are unvaccinated people, because vaccinated people at the very least are safe from severe symptoms even in the case that they do get infected. If people choose the risk of a severe infection for themselves, then let them. The world has no obligation to protect people's lives who don't want to be protected; if a construction worker refused to wear a helmet during his job and eventually died from something falling on his head, then we are clearly looking at a case of a person whose life wasn't worth protecting because they didn't care about their own safety in the first place.

Somehow I don't quite manage to make this post flow to my actual conclusion that our modern society has had things backwards. What strikes me as incredibly stupid about all these corona measures we've had is that the young generation was sacrificed for the very old generation. This is as if in the sinking ship analogy the crew would declare that the least important lives should be saved first instead of children and women.

Apologies for this being more of a rant than well-constructed writing.

Normally you have pretty astute takes on just about everything, but this post seems to omit the reality that as the unvaccinated continue to incubate and spread new variants the vaccines we make will have to continue to alter and may in fact not be able to keep up with the superbug being created.  It's fine if you want to stop observing safety measures, but as some point those safety measures might be all that keeps you safe from the omicron variant, or whatever has surfaced.  And your analogy of a construction worker wearing a helmet doesn't at all fit with this situation.  It would be more like the construction worker increasingly leaving things (in increasing size) to accidentally fall on people's heads, and then exclaiming that the people wearing a helmet never have anything to worry about since they are protected from just such an incident. 

You are right, we will never be corona free and I don't think anyone thinks that that is the end game at this point, but we have a long hard road ahead of us to fight this thing and it happens through multiple measures and they aren't nonsense, as much as they are annoying for many individuals.  



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useruserB said:
TallSilhouette said:

The "I'm not a sheep" crowd poison themselves with sheep dewormer:

Funny thing is, the drug actually works and the sad thing is that people have to resort to taking animals versions because the well funded and coordinated campaign against the drug makes it difficult to acquire through normal means. And according to the report everyone had mild symptoms from ivermectin, only 1 person needed treatment. As a 200lb man, I could honestly take half a tube of horsepaste(the right kind) daily for 5 days and be  A-ok.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41429-021-00430-5

https://ivmmeta.com/

Apparently, with early aggressive treatment you can greatly reduce disease severity, disease symptoms and duration, hospitalization rates and death...

Tell me, why is it that a handful of doctors on a shoestring budget managed to create a treatment protocol that is far superior to what all these governments and health entities with their tremendous access to $$$ and world-class experts put out?? hmm, something odd is going on but most normies can't handle the real truth. If you want real coronavirus treatment options/news you oughtta follow the FLCCC and watch their weekly updates, can't watch it on YouTube due to censorship... So you have to go over to odysee or their webpage. Here check out their treatment protocols. And remember, these guys were the first ones to say use corticosteroids during the pulmonary phase of the illness, months before the WHO recommended weak ass dexamethasone.

https://covid19criticalcare.com/covid-19-protocols/i-mask-plus-protocol/

This sums up my feelings/thoughts on the jab, the people incessantly manipulating/pressuring you to get it are the same ones hiding/censoring all the treatment options.

Here's some cold hard stats for you:

CDH officials said 98.3% of COVID-19 cases reported in its jurisdiction are from unvaccinated people. Of the 255,494 vaccinated people in the four-county district, 0.4% of them have contracted COVID-19, a total of 1,058 breakthrough cases.

Data from CDH also states that 28 breakthrough cases resulted in hospitalization. Of those, four of those cases resulted in death. A total of 521 unvaccinated people have died from COVID-19.

As for your latest "miracle cure" nutter ruse (where have I seen THAT before?), sorry, facts aren't on your side there, either: 

Mississippi’s Health Department put out a warning because poison control reports at least 70 percent of the recent calls have been related to ingestion of ivermectin meant for livestock.

But surely you'll trust a study that was withdrawn for blatant plagiarism and gross inaccuracies over the WHO, CDC and FDA, who actually approved the Covid vaccine, right, right? LOL. Which BTW, even Merck, the pharmaceutical company who makes Ivermectin, says it's not effective for treating Covid. But sure, ignore doctors and refuse the jab even though the research says it works. 

Last edited by KManX89 - on 29 August 2021

RolStoppable said:

It seems that vaccination has hit a block in the road in most (or all?) developed countries. No shortage of vaccines anymore, but a shortage of people who are willing to get their shots.

I just hope there's no stubborn insistence that the world has to become corona-free, but that instead we move on to accept that corona will continue to be around and won't have to deal with nonsensical measures anymore.

People who refuse to get a vaccination may be a potential problem for spreading the virus, but as I understand it, the only people who are in actual continued danger of current and future spreads are unvaccinated people, because vaccinated people at the very least are safe from severe symptoms even in the case that they do get infected. If people choose the risk of a severe infection for themselves, then let them. The world has no obligation to protect people's lives who don't want to be protected; if a construction worker refused to wear a helmet during his job and eventually died from something falling on his head, then we are clearly looking at a case of a person whose life wasn't worth protecting because they didn't care about their own safety in the first place.

Somehow I don't quite manage to make this post flow to my actual conclusion that our modern society has had things backwards. What strikes me as incredibly stupid about all these corona measures we've had is that the young generation was sacrificed for the very old generation. This is as if in the sinking ship analogy the crew would declare that the least important lives should be saved first instead of children and women.

Apologies for this being more of a rant than well-constructed writing.

You have that backwards. The experimental, rushed out vaccines were first approved for the 'least important' lives, the old, the frail (which are also the most at risk). Currently the vaccines are still held back to under 12 just in case...

Break through cases are a reality, kids can die of covid as well (or have lasting symptoms), new variants will be created by letting evolution do its work. Vaccinated people aren't all safe and some people can't get vaccinated due to underlying conditions. The original point of the vaccines was to create herd immunity to get rid of Covid-19 yet then the delta variant came along since we couldn't keep it under control in the mean time. Partly because of the younger generation not willing to do their part in social distancing and lock downs.

We'll still have to deal with 'nonsensical' measures since hospitals have not been improved much at all in the past year to deal with the higher volume of patients. And now we already need booster shots trying to keep further waves down and people from needing hospital care.

As long as fun is more important than lives, we certainly won't get rid of any pandemic.
https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coronavirus/covid-19-infection-rate-skyrocketing-in-s-d-following-sturgis-motorcycle-rally-1.5565172



SvennoJ said:
RolStoppable said:

It seems that vaccination has hit a block in the road in most (or all?) developed countries. No shortage of vaccines anymore, but a shortage of people who are willing to get their shots.

I just hope there's no stubborn insistence that the world has to become corona-free, but that instead we move on to accept that corona will continue to be around and won't have to deal with nonsensical measures anymore.

People who refuse to get a vaccination may be a potential problem for spreading the virus, but as I understand it, the only people who are in actual continued danger of current and future spreads are unvaccinated people, because vaccinated people at the very least are safe from severe symptoms even in the case that they do get infected. If people choose the risk of a severe infection for themselves, then let them. The world has no obligation to protect people's lives who don't want to be protected; if a construction worker refused to wear a helmet during his job and eventually died from something falling on his head, then we are clearly looking at a case of a person whose life wasn't worth protecting because they didn't care about their own safety in the first place.

Somehow I don't quite manage to make this post flow to my actual conclusion that our modern society has had things backwards. What strikes me as incredibly stupid about all these corona measures we've had is that the young generation was sacrificed for the very old generation. This is as if in the sinking ship analogy the crew would declare that the least important lives should be saved first instead of children and women.

Apologies for this being more of a rant than well-constructed writing.

You have that backwards. The experimental, rushed out vaccines were first approved for the 'least important' lives, the old, the frail (which are also the most at risk). Currently the vaccines are still held back to under 12 just in case...

Break through cases are a reality, kids can die of covid as well (or have lasting symptoms), new variants will be created by letting evolution do its work. Vaccinated people aren't all safe and some people can't get vaccinated due to underlying conditions. The original point of the vaccines was to create herd immunity to get rid of Covid-19 yet then the delta variant came along since we couldn't keep it under control in the mean time. Partly because of the younger generation not willing to do their part in social distancing and lock downs.

We'll still have to deal with 'nonsensical' measures since hospitals have not been improved much at all in the past year to deal with the higher volume of patients. And now we already need booster shots trying to keep further waves down and people from needing hospital care.

As long as fun is more important than lives, we certainly won't get rid of any pandemic.
https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coronavirus/covid-19-infection-rate-skyrocketing-in-s-d-following-sturgis-motorcycle-rally-1.5565172

Just to ponder.

I wonder how many vaxed drivers have stupidly or mistakenly crashed and killed unvaxed drivers?

Good thing countrywide/worldwide transportation lockdowns will be put into effect though right? Too bad the unvaxed drivers weren't vaxed right?

This is the problem.

What if the unvaxed drivers weren't wearing their seatbelt though? Do we still lockdown or do we just call them idiots and move on?

What if the unvaxed driver got ejected into the vaxed drivers vehicle, killing both?

Shut the roadways down? Forced seatbelts somehow? Some drivers in crashes who can't get out due to belt issues and die because of it?

People die everyday for so many different reasons and most people are accustomed to it. Only so much can be done to stop death in general, and people will only go so far to stop it individually. That's 8 billion different people at that. Diversity can be a great strength but also a great weakness.

The right answer is that unfortunately there is no right answer. Just a choice between more freedom or more safety overall.

Last edited by EricHiggin - on 30 August 2021

RolStoppable said:
super_etecoon said:

Normally you have pretty astute takes on just about everything, but this post seems to omit the reality that as the unvaccinated continue to incubate and spread new variants the vaccines we make will have to continue to alter and may in fact not be able to keep up with the superbug being created.  It's fine if you want to stop observing safety measures, but as some point those safety measures might be all that keeps you safe from the omicron variant, or whatever has surfaced.  And your analogy of a construction worker wearing a helmet doesn't at all fit with this situation.  It would be more like the construction worker increasingly leaving things (in increasing size) to accidentally fall on people's heads, and then exclaiming that the people wearing a helmet never have anything to worry about since they are protected from just such an incident. 

You are right, we will never be corona free and I don't think anyone thinks that that is the end game at this point, but we have a long hard road ahead of us to fight this thing and it happens through multiple measures and they aren't nonsense, as much as they are annoying for many individuals.  

2. Of the people who died of COVID-19, it's important to point out that in almost all cases they didn't die of COVID-19 alone. Rather it is more probable that they died because of a combination of multiple things, including previous known problems with their heart or lungs, or obesity. These previous diseases and illnesses are usually caused by unhealthy lifestyles, such as smoking, too much alcohol and/or intake of processed foods. So if there was actual concern about people, then the solution to COVID-19 and its variants would not be vaccination, but preventive measures to keep people healthier overall. This means that governments should have clamped down on holes in the laws concerning food processing, but I am not aware of any country taking any steps like that.

What information do you have that "almost all cases they didn't die of COVID-19 alone"? Looking at the comorbidity data I don't see a lot of things that would independently cause death but are rather related to having COVID-19 such as respiratory failure or pneumonia. Hell only 26,000 of the 620,000 deaths in the US had obesity listed as a comorbidity so the idea that one should focus on healthy eating over vaccination seems pretty ludicrous on its face. 

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/index.htm#Comorbidities



...

RolStoppable said:

The biggest danger of the coronavirus is how much misinformation went around and how it was blown up into an illness that is an existential threat to humanity. That's how we've arrived at the current situation that even people who should be intelligent enough to grasp the magnitude of it aren't capable of doing it anymore. Facts have been handpicked to justify the measures being taken by governments, yet despite the distortion we've still witnessed many rules that were illogical or outright nonsensical.

However, despite how the media and politicians put the facts forward, there remain limits to how much they can control. When there's training for employees to learn the full capacity of the actual danger of the virus, there's an obligation to inform properly, because otherwise the state could and would get sued for deliberate misinformation. So the actual facts are:

1. In a good year of living with the virus, 80% of the known infections have resulted in no or only mild symptoms. 15% have been cases where the infected had to stay at home to recover from the symptoms. It's only the remaining 5% who had to seek medical care of which a portion has been hospitalized and an even smaller fraction had to put in intensive care.

2. Of the people who died of COVID-19, it's important to point out that in almost all cases they didn't die of COVID-19 alone. Rather it is more probable that they died because of a combination of multiple things, including previous known problems with their heart or lungs, or obesity. These previous diseases and illnesses are usually caused by unhealthy lifestyles, such as smoking, too much alcohol and/or intake of processed foods. So if there was actual concern about people, then the solution to COVID-19 and its variants would not be vaccination, but preventive measures to keep people healthier overall. This means that governments should have clamped down on holes in the laws concerning food processing, but I am not aware of any country taking any steps like that.

So what corona is, is not an existential threat to humanity, but merely an existential threat to the way of life and production. But this same existential threat to our current way of living already exists in the form of climate change. The ultimate answer to these threats cannot be bandaids like vaccination and measures like social distancing, but a sincere willingness of humanity to bend to the rules of nature instead of the other way around. Because if we collectively subscribed to the thinking that the current way of living can be preserved, we would be just digging a deeper hole which would make the eventual and inevitable course correction all the harder to achieve.

Corona has served as a great distraction for the last ~1.5 years. Ironically, if it hadn't been for corona, the world's climate goals for 2020 would have been far out of reach. In a way it's hilarious that humanity has been more afraid of corona - an illness that poses first and foremost a risk to only the chronically ill - than the reality of climate change which has resulted in an increase of natural disasters that take lives by the hundreds with no distinction between perfectly healthy and vulnerable people. Not to mention all the additional damage that comes with natural disasters, like people losing their homes.

Corona has received attention that is disproportional to its actual threat. Perhaps the media and politicians should employ the same tools to get something done as retaliation to climate change, because apparently the population is willing to make concessions to their standard of living if it's perceived to be necessary.

SvennoJ said:

You have that backwards. The experimental, rushed out vaccines were first approved for the 'least important' lives, the old, the frail (which are also the most at risk). Currently the vaccines are still held back to under 12 just in case...

Break through cases are a reality, kids can die of covid as well (or have lasting symptoms), new variants will be created by letting evolution do its work. Vaccinated people aren't all safe and some people can't get vaccinated due to underlying conditions. The original point of the vaccines was to create herd immunity to get rid of Covid-19 yet then the delta variant came along since we couldn't keep it under control in the mean time. Partly because of the younger generation not willing to do their part in social distancing and lock downs.

We'll still have to deal with 'nonsensical' measures since hospitals have not been improved much at all in the past year to deal with the higher volume of patients. And now we already need booster shots trying to keep further waves down and people from needing hospital care.

As long as fun is more important than lives, we certainly won't get rid of any pandemic.
https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coronavirus/covid-19-infection-rate-skyrocketing-in-s-d-following-sturgis-motorcycle-rally-1.5565172

Yup, it's exactly all these exceptional cases that have been used to instill fear in the population by portraying them as something that can occur regularly. I do not deny that these cases exist and it's sad that they do, but we shouldn't allow it that the sight of the big picture is lost.

However 1. has put hospital systems across the world on the brink of collapse with all the measures in place. Go talk to a healthcare worker if you think it's all a storm in a glass of water. My wife has not been able to get the medical care she needs because the healthcare system has been overloaded with Covid-19 cases since April 2020.

You might not see it happening right around you, yet the fallout is everywhere. A close friend of my wife nearly died because cancer diagnosis was postponed half a year due to the hospitals and doctors being overloaded. She ended up needing most of her left lung removed (would have been far less drastic if caught on time with regular screenings that were cancelled) and is still in recovery.

And still policy makers are only looking at how stressed the hospitals are and let it get to the point of saturation before halting further spread. Surgeries here are being cancelled and postponed again due to Covid.

an illness that poses first and foremost a risk to only the chronically ill, That's a blatant lie.

Climate change still gets plenty attention btw, has been getting attention for the past 20 years. Corona is not to blame for the general apathy to the dangers of global warming. The problem with global warming is, it happens too slowly for people to take note. Just like Corona was only 'interesting' during the early exponential growth. Now we sort of have it contained to linear growth it's not 'interesting' anymore, while the active cases are as high as ever. 10,000 daily deaths (at least the official count) a day is now considered normal.

But Corona did help global warming by reducing air traffic 90% during lock downs, got far more people to work from home instead of commute, reduced unnecessary travel in general and even reduced the amount of E-waste by global shortages :p. So if you want more to be done about global warming, you should be all for more lock downs and restrictions.