If two people have the same job and same hourly wage, but one works many more hours than the other, won't they likely end up with more money?

If multiple countries are dealing with the same illness, but one country does way more testing, won't they likely end up with more confirmed cases?

Ironically, after pointing out you're not paying enough attention to the posts and overall conversation, if you would have done so as per that post, you would see it clearly ties to someone else who was added to the post, along with you and the third who had also joined in. Someone mentioning they would explain it to me because they had "time to kill". It applied to all three in general, but not every single last thing in my reply was direct to each individual.

It relates to it based on who has the "moral high ground" based on their job. Or at least that's what it seemed to be before I reiterated what I did, and then that didn't seem as important all of the sudden. It's all there if you go back and read through it.

Are you seriously suggesting that you honestly think it's impossible for a hospital to be without power? I already explained enough. To do so in great depth wouldn't matter anyway because you wouldn't know for certain if it were the truth unless you do what I do, in which case why ask, and you definitely can't look it up on the internet to 'fact check' it either. If you don't want to believe me, that's your choice, but if that's the example you want to set as to how we should treat each other, then you as well as I need to apply the same logic to Pem, which means there is no reason for either of us to believe them either, which then also means what they've said is a problem as well. I however have been willing to take their word for it. 

11 minute video... 11? Of course, why not. Trucker Carlson? Coincidence that get's brought up now with what happened recently to him? I wonder if this is being seen as somehow directly associated? If we can't get you to wear a mask by asking 'nicely'..

I would hope the problems are dealt with fairly and equally, as last time there was a 'problem' it certainly didn't seem to be handled that way.

If those 30 seconds are all it takes for you to contract it and then die, then what was the point in wearing the mask at all? Is the hot dog contest happening in a certified medical clean room? Is it a guarantee you would have contracted it and died sooner if you hadn't bothered to wear it prior?

Every last life matters equally has been part of the conversation from early on, and isn't exactly unjustified, though tough to undeniably prove with real world evidence unfortunately.

That's like saying, 'we should take away everyone's guns. Some people's families won't be able to defend themselves and will be injured or killed, and some will have police nearby to save the day, but it will be better for everyone in the end'. It won't be better, if all lives matter equally. If you don't believe all lives matter equally, then it's completely justified for someone else to believe the same, and if they don't want to wear a mask because they've deemed themselves more worthy than others, you couldn't justifiably complain about that then.

Not entirely true. I had a gf that was a paramedic who said there were rare shifts where they didn't use the lights or siren because those were only for a certain level of emergency which didn't occur for them those days. Though yes, it happens much more often for them.

It is more rare in the electrical field, but when something like a hospital does lose power, like if it were to happen during the covid 19 peak, how many lives are all at risk, including the medial professionals themselves? That's a lot of lives and a lot of pressure to be under while you're racing through traffic. That's if the professionals on the way have morals and care. I was once told by another competing company on a job site site that they lost a pair of workers racing to an urgent call because another vehicle side swiped them on the highway, changing lanes without properly looking, causing them to crash and die. Apparently they were one of a few vehicles on the way and the issue was solved in time so no lives were lost, other than their two workers in the vehicle accident.

The point is what is necessary and what isn't? When is enough truly enough, and when is it too much? Why are all essential workers clearly not equally essential? How do you legitimately asses the value of each? Are all things said to be equal, actually treated as equal in day to day life? Can they ever be?

The reason isn't all that much different than allowing people to have guns. The freedom to choose based on your life and to possibly take or save others. That weapon could be a positive or negative thing. Depends on who you ask. Some are all for it, other's are completely against it. Who's right and who's wrong? If the police took away someone's gun because no more guns for the general public was the newest decision from 'on high', and they and their family were robbed at gunpoint and killed that same night, would that be ok? What if the intruder was just some really drunk idiot who made an honest mistake, but get's blown away by the home owner, simply out of irrational fear for their families lives? Is either case for the good of everyone?

The problem and answer, is choice, and it'll never be undeniably right or wrong.

If everyone was that intelligent, there wouldn't be a need for the leaders and some of the systems we have. The hard data could simply be made available to the public and they would all know exactly what to do. It's been said, even in this very conversation overall, that some people are extremely dumb/stupid. Apparently some of the 'best candidates' from their respective professions aren't even reliable. If they can't be trusted, who can be, and how are people to know for certain?

Rise, peak, or fall, what's the difference? It's all because of decisions made 'for the good of everyone', or I guess you could also say, not made.

That would be your personal choice. Would you like to always be told what to do? What if it was consistent and always said to be 'for the good of everyone'?

How many people are wearing high end medical masks? How many have access or can afford them?

Should everyone be ID chipped, with cams/scanners everywhere, and constant checkpoints when moving about through an area? Can bad people, like criminals, look like good people? If a police officer interrupts someone to question them because they look ever so slightly suspicious, is that a problem if that person is actually no threat? That individual could be a terrorist for all we know, so it would be best for everyone to be sure, wouldn't it? Imagine the death and chaos that could ensue otherwise if unchecked. Imagine a system where you're constantly monitored, told what to do, and harassed because, reasons. Those systems have existed and still exist in some places, under the guise of unrivaled safety, and are slowly being introduced where freedom once reigned.

When the leaders and media, the protectors of the people, don't even follow their own rules, why do you think the people won't fall in line?

Damn...there are actual people arguing against wearing mask..the stupidity is mind boggling, then again Trump is the President so nothing should really surprise me.
Well maybe one thing, if he wins again.

Using the power of mathematics, it doesn't actually matter how many tests you perform... You end up with a "confirmed rate" of infection which can then be extrapolated into various demographics using the law of averages.

So no. Increasing testing does stuff all to those who actually understand basic statistics.

Again... Morality has nothing to do with it, this isn't religion, this is peoples lives.

And whatever job you have... Heck whatever job I have is ultimately irrelevant, you are either an essential worker or you are not.

From the 28th of September to the 5th of October 2016 my city was without electricity, it was actually at a crisis point where an emergency had been declared.

We were also about to run out of mains water due to the lack of pumping, so we were relying on gravity fed systems... Fuel was scarce to power generators and so forth to run the pumps.

However basic infrastructure gets prioritized, that is hospitals and emergency services and supermarkets.

That means any and all fuel that gets brought in via ship or truck gets sent to those places first to run their generators, the hospital here is actually backed up by an array of high-capacity lithium cells, solar power, few smaller wind generators and a spate of high-capacity diesel generators, so whilst the hospital *could* in theory run out of power, it wasn't ever going to occur even under those specific scenarios.

So yes, I do actually know for certain as I used to work in the healthcare sector and I am a first responder who relies on it.

Allot of planning and logistics goes into supporting vital infrastructure... It rarely falters... Unless of course your planning and infrastructure is shit to begin with.

We have been over this... But I shall repeat it just in-case.

What is deemed "necessary" and "essential" is what is required to support a functioning society.

You are never going to be seen and treated as "equals" in the job market due to career path, skillsets, experience and more, that's just a fact of life.

I don't believe people should have guns willy-nilly. Gun control has been proven to work.

But basically your argument amounts to this...


Choice can be wrong, because people can make the wrong choice.

Hard data on various topics does get released to the public, but you have conspiracy theorists who throw it out the window.
Case in point...
* Climate Change.

If you aren't willing to protect another persons health... Or even "life" because you might get offended that you are being "told what to do". - Then you might be a snowflake, I don't think you are, but you might just prove that assumption wrong with this continued line of thinking.

A high-end mask isn't required, any mask provides improved protection.

It's about reducing risk, not eliminating it entirely.
Condoms for example "reduce the risk" of pregnancy, it cannot guarantee to stop pregnancy 100%.

It's a control measure.

No one in this thread is proposing that people should be ID chipped with cams/scanners placed everywhere with constant checkpoints.

But if people are stupid and are being selfish, not thinking about the health and safety of other individuals... Then maybe there needs to be more control measures put in place to reduce the risk of infection... Because whatever the United States is doing is simply a joke and ineffectual.

The difference the USA and other people have is that... When an official here "mandates" something, we generally nod and follow the rules and we work cohesively to achieve the outlined goals and objectives.

When the USA mandates something, you get protests, death and destruction in the streets because "My rights".

I think that comes down to cultural issues than anything else.

USA: 146k tests per million

Germany: 82k tests per million

Italy: 103k tests per million

So the more tests could explain double of the known active cases at best , not 29x or 85x the number of known cases.

What kind of terrible analogy is that?

Where's the equivalent of the "same hourly wage" in your second example? There has to be something like "same positivity rate" in there, otherwise it's not even a valid analogy.

But then you'd need to realize that the country that does way more testing (US) also has a much higher positivity rate...

So you would agree with Trump that less testing would have been better, and they should start testing less going forward? I mean, why waste time and money by testing more if you're not likely to confirm more cases?

Well based on what you said prior that seemed to be the case, but glad we've got this all cleared up now. I wouldn't say what you do is irrelevant, it's just not a key deciding factor as to who you are as a moral individual. It's much more complex than that.

I could point out how your city/country should have been ready for this well in advance, apparently, and critique, but I won't go there. If the back up is running which is what it's there for, then yes, as long as it keeps running, you're at much less risk. Pandemics are also quite rare, especially world reaching.

Exactly. Nothing, is ever treated as entirely equal, no matter the situation, how many times it's said, or how much it's believed in everyday life. Some people realize this, and some people don't. The people who do, are much harder to convince.

Pemalite said:  I don't believe people should have guns willy-nilly. Gun control has been proven to work. But basically your argument amounts to this... Choice can be wrong, because people can make the wrong choice.

Nope. Let them tell you not to put the fork in the socket, then ask them to explain why, and hope it's everything you need to know. Afterwards, decide for yourself. There's a reason why all homes don't have a lockable idiot cover for every single outlet in private and public life. Socket 'masks'?

Doesn't matter. If people were smart and wise enough, some would say, you wouldn't have that problem. Another part of the problem, is that people themselves have a lot of personal problems. The only way to 'save' them all from themselves, is for the few 'perfect' people to force them all to live a certain way. No more choices, no more 'problems'.

Very nice spin jab. Very nice. LOL. Sticks and stones. Sticks and stones. Soon to be the tools of the future at this rate.

I dunno, Hiku seemed pretty adamant. Who to believe? Who to ignore?  Control? Exactly.

Not yet they aren't. How long before that becomes the "new normal" though? I mean, Trump as Prez? In this reality? Are you high? It'll, never, happen..

Maybe, but the moment you ever piss off America, I'd bet the world would quickly be told how 'terrible' you guys 'really are'. Don't forget the media. Too bad the world doesn't get mainstream coverage of down under for all to see. Maybe that's the example the world so desperately needs.

Well how accurate are the numbers? How accurate are any of the numbers? Clearly dying from another cause, and being counted as a covid death because it was also in their system at that time, certainly puts that into question. Hospitals being paid by the Gov for treating covid 19 patients when forced to slow or halt other medical treatments due to the pandemic? Based on covid 19 symptoms, which can be quite similar to other illnesses?

How many other uncertainties are out there? I'm sure I must have caught them all. Never miss a covimon.

Same illness, that effects people differently, because people are different. Are all workers the same? Same quality? Same productivity?

220,000 new cases globally on a sunday.... just another sunday....

I wonder if we're still dealing with this virus, on this same day, a year from now?

Man, Brazil just doesnt get better. Still more than 100 death per day, around 50 thousand new infections. Will surely hit 100+ thousand deaths.
At least summer is coming in the south hemisphere so it should improve after september.

I think the infection we have right now started to spread in January-March while it was still very cold in the north and now we are suffering the consequences of it. Also of course it's summer so people want to go out and do stuff.

It's already proven (or not, who knows?) that the virus lasts for much longer in the air and on surfaces when temperature is cold.