If masks don't help slowing down spreading the virus immensely... why does the USA (lax regulations, low mask acceptance thanks to mixed messages of the government and anti-mask propaganda of fox news) currently has almost 2 million known active cases (~5800 per million) while other big western countries with even higher population density have it much better under control?

I'd say Germany has a similar wealth and lifestyle (in most areas) as the USA and only ~6000 known active cases (~68 per million, so 1/85 compared to the USA).

Italy was hit pretty hard by the virus, but they took it serious and are down to ~12000 known active cases (~200 per million, so 1/29 compared to the USA).

France is still in trouble with ~65000 known active cases (~1000 per million)... but the USA numbers are 6x worse than that (~5800 per million).

And the 4th of July infections will probably make it even worse in the USA

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I did some research the other day on Spain and while their official numbers weren't that great, they were nowhere near ~1400 cases in one day.

Closer to ~600/day.

I also read on Worldometer that they are combining results of PCR and antibody tests, which could explain the difference. But those people are no longer infectious and thus the numbers probably look more worrying than they really are.

The past three days haven't been that great either in Germany. Around 500 cases a day. Definitely going up a little.

Yeah. Really can't afford ling scarring with what I do... Would kick me to the curb.

I would like to think I am extremely moral and empathetic, otherwise I wouldn't live every waking moment trying to save lives.

If you are not willing to undertake a few simple and easy approaches to protect someones health, maybe even their life... Because it might "take a few seconds longer to communicate". - Then yes. You are selfish.

People being different has nothing to do with it, yes everyone is different, that much I can agree with, but still has nothing to do with mandating the use of masks... No ones nose is that much out of joint where they cannot wear a P2 mask effectively.

Essential vehicles = essential workers. Are you not seeing the common link here?
You are trying to place vehicle analogies in terms of under standing demographics of people... And that has backfired spectacularly.

But instead of admitting your analogy was faulty to start with you have instead delved into a logical fallacy and shifted the goal post.

The last political party hasn't been in power since 2016. The fault is Trump and his party, not anyone else.
Not all PPE supplies last indefinitely, some need to be replaced annually.

I agree the united states seems more "forgiving" when it comes to freedoms, people seem to be free to shoot up entire schools, ignore social distancing and basic hygiene which results in plagues spreading, resulting in more deaths... Engage in blatant bigotry, discrimination and racism and more...

The USSR was always a nation destined to fail, not because they knocked off the rich.

Correct. It would not impact our morality.

A street banker isn't an essential worker, they can work from home.

My job is essential because lives still need to be saving... Whether it is pulling a child out of a burning building, whether it is cutting someones father out of a car, whether it is plucking dead bodies out of the ocean so that a family can mourn and get closure, whether it is scaling down a cliff face to grab someones much beloved dog that fell off. (I have done all of these.)

That is essential and never stops. Someone trading shares on the stock market? Do that shit from home remotely, the technology exists.

Anybody considered airconditioning might spread the virus

I see, they're still doing that, or doing it again. Their sudden decline in deaths departing the curve from Italy and France is still weird. Another country that has successfully obfuscated the numbers.

Not so sure about that.

Here in Luxembourg, the numbers have been rising for over a month now, with peaks of over 100 cases in a day. Yet the hospitalizations are growing much slower than they did during the first wave, the number of people in ICU have stayed below 5 and we only got a single new dead, an 89 year old man, since the numbers have gone up again.

By comparison, during the first wave at a similar moment in time (similar number of infected on a 7-day average), we already had 6 deaths, 7 persons in ICU and over 120 persons in standard care compared to 35 today. The latter is especially striking, since originally the number of hospitalized people shot up very fast, but this time around it's a very slow increase, so much that the numbers from Friday are just 2 more than last Sunday.

In other words, the low numbers may very well be legit. Either the virus got weaker or treatments have improved enough to keep the number of deaths very low. Also, don't forget that there's a delay between infections and deaths.

What I'm getting at was this weird decline

Spain stopped reporting deaths for a couple weeks then came back much lower. Different way of counting deaths I guess.

The big difference with the first wave is that the more vulnerable part of the population is doing their part to isolate and the average age of those infected has dropped dramatically. Yet as long as the younger population doesn't do their part, the more vulnerable are screwed to stay isolated. Still young people die as well as the reported deaths have shown in the USA, climbing again.

It feels like a perfect storm is brewing for September :/


Phase 3 re-openings started last Friday except for Toronto which will likely follow next week.
Last 2 days cases have been up again already (from phase 2?) 3-day average +18% compared to a week ago.

The average age of infected people has dropped dramatically
https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coronavirus/lockdown-fatigue-invincibility-causing-more-covid-19-infections-in-young-people-1.5030197

More young people are being infected with COVID-19, creating the potential for a severe outbreak, scientists warn. Numbers from the Public Health Agency of Canada show that during the second week of July, the largest proportion of new cases reported -- 22 per cent of female cases and 28 per cent of male cases -- was among the 20-29 age group.

"If we start to see an increase in the younger age category there's no doubt that it'll eventually spread from the parent to the grandparent, and it can have severe impacts on older populations." McBean said his message for public health officials is to keep daycares and schools closed. "We're on a very fine line as it is right now in Ontario. So, we just have to be very careful in that number doesn't start to creep up again and be above one," McBean said.

While children under 10 are half as likely to spread the virus, those over 10 are just as effective in spreading the virus
https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coronavirus/children-over-age-10-spread-covid-19-as-much-as-adults-study-finds-1.5030231

The study, released Thursday by the Korea Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, reported that children up to age 10 spread COVID-19 much less than adults do. However, children aged 10 to 19 were just as likely as adults to transmit the virus to someone else.



And this is what the largest school board in Ontario came up with (Toronto)
https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/a-look-at-back-to-school-plans-at-canada-s-largest-school-board-1.5030289

Option 1: Regular-length school days with no more than 15 students per class across the board. Bird says this option would cost the most, with the board needing $249 million to hire about 2,500 extra teachers. Bird described this approach as "not that financially feasible."

Option 2: Same class sizes, but with the school day shortened by 48 minutes to allow teachers to have some prep time at the end of the day. Bird said this model would lower the cost to $98 million.

Option 3: A full-day model with two different sizes of class cohorts -- a maximum of 15 for students in kindergarten to Grade 3 and cohorts of 20 for Grade 4 and up. Bird estimates the board would need to hire 1,900 teachers at a cost of $190 million if this plan goes ahead.

Option 4: Same mixed class sizes, but with the school day shortened by 48 minutes. Bird pegs the cost of hiring 200 teachers to support this approach at about $20 million.

Option 5: Resuming pre-pandemic class sizes, but with additional, unspecified health and safety protocols. Bird said this approach is the one the borad currently favours.

"We want all of our students back, and if we can do it in regular class sizes, we think that is ideal just from a mental health and well-being and learning aspect," he said. "Having said that, we know that the health and safety of our students and staff is the number one priority, so we have to make sure that whatever option is implemented ... is safe to do so."



It's all about the money, money... Additional unspecified health and safety protocols, yup I feel totally safe now sending my kids back to school. They still got a bit over a month to figure things out.

I am pleasantly surprised and impressed with how little griping I have heard here since the announcement of masks being made compulsory yesterday.

Yeah, there were a couple of the usual suspects whining about it, but by and large people seem to recognize the importance of it and are just getting on with it.

I meant here as in Melbourne Australia, the place the rule's been announced for, not this thread, my bad for not being more clear.