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Forums - Politics - Official 2020 US Election: Democratic Party Discussion

Moren said:
tsogud said:

I have no doubt in my mind that Bernie would have compromised at least some issues in the general. That's part of politics, if he'd concede too much I'd be bummed but I'd still vote for him. You can't have everything, but you can come to the table with uncompromised policies and you'd start from there.

Also in my previous posts I criticized Bernie about not doing enough to earn votes in the primary so idk what you're on about.

That's great! Biden has been compromising with the left in bankruptcy, college affordability, and so on, and it's not even May.

Yeah I've seen some give and it is actually pretty good by November I hope he's on board for M4A and bold action to combat climate change. I believe those are winning positions.



 

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tsogud said:
AngryLittleAlchemist said:

?

Not really sure what you're talking about, I tried to word that as nicely as possible for the express purpose of not being inflammatory. I guess my questions before that were a little pointed but, that was only for the sake of being direct, and this was by far the tamest response, yet it's the one you took offense to. No idea why. 

I think it's obviously a little disingenuous that, when someone questions a comment you make specifically about the presidential race, that they want an answer about that presidential race, and that you probably knew what you were doing by not replying in an upfront way until further questioned. Me pointing out that you could have been a little more direct is not really rude, especially when framed in the nicest way possible. It's a simple question given by a fellow Bernie fan, and supporter in the primary. 

I took offense because in my mind I legitimately answered your questions and then you came at me sideways. It wasn't needed and I didn't appreciate it.

If only being offended was a substantive position to hold politically, Bernie might have actually won. 



AngryLittleAlchemist said:
tsogud said:

I took offense because in my mind I legitimately answered your questions and then you came at me sideways. It wasn't needed and I didn't appreciate it.

If only being offended was a substantive position to hold politically, Bernie might have actually won. 

Lol prolly but who cares now really. Biden's the nominee.



 

Bernie Sanders will never be president.

Thanks for 5 years of political hell.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1gWECYYOSo

Please Watch/Share this video so it gets shown in Hollywood.

Signalstar said:
Bernie Sanders will never be president.

Thanks for 5 years of political hell.

Just political hell?

What about socioeconomical??

Geez some folks have it easy... /s



 

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SpokenTruth said:
Moren said:

What am I mischaracterizing?

As far as I'm concerned, your priorities are not helping as much people as possible.

I don't think you'd agree on "earning votes" if Biden voters were calling for Bernie to go to the center and make concessions to moderates if Bernie had been the nominee.

And yet....you're pushing for the centrist candidate. 

Yep. That's me. I'd vote for a combination of Dick Cheney, Ronald Reagan, Mitch McConnell, and Newt Gingrich if I could.

Then again, that's basically what Biden is.



SpokenTruth said:
Moren said:

Yep. That's me. I'd vote for a combination of Dick Cheney, Ronald Reagan, Mitch McConnell, and Newt Gingrich if I could.

Then again, that's basically what Biden is.

My point is don't espouse such vitriol to Tsogud about his "priorities are not helping as much people as possible" when you're own are priorities are not helping as much people as possible. It's hypocritical.

Maybe I don't believe M4A is implentable and possible and as such, public choice can actually cause real impact.

Maybe I believe National Rent Control is going to create long term housing issues.

Maybe I don't believe federal jobs guarantees are the best way to help people in need.

You don't hold the universal truth. Stop pretending like you do.



Shadow1980 said:

My concern is all the complaining from the usual suspects about Bernie getting "screwed" again and not wanting to vote for Biden. In 2000, a moderate Democrat won the nomination over a more progressive candidate. Enough progressive voters sat at home or voted third-party to throw the election to Bush. The exact same things happened again in 2016, leading to Trump winning. Now here we are in 2020, and many progressives are apparently ready to repeat the same mistake again. They act like Bernie not winning is an absolute outrage, and that the most sensible course of action is to not vote for Biden in the general out of protest. Time and time again, too many progressive voters demonstrate quite clearly that they think having the ideal candidate is more important than winning.

Sorry, this isn't how it works. Biden isn't entitled to get progressive votes. He has to earn them. Like Bernie needed to earn the votes of more conservatives voters in the primary and failed. But that doesn't mean a single progressive is forced to vote for Biden. People have the freedom to choose whoever they want and it is Biden's job to get these votes.

And it is not like Democrats or Republicans make a big difference to a lot of people. A lot of people are screwed either way. For instance, Obama promised a better health care. But after Obamacare 30 millions are uninsured and about 50 millions have unsufficient insurance. Why should they vote for Biden, after he said he will even veto a bill that passes house and senate that makes their situation better? Why should they? Or Obama promised to end foreign wars. But in reality it didn't happen. So why should people who lost loved ones vote Democrats over Republicans (or at all), if it makes no differences to their demands?

And don't you dare put Kerry's and Clinton's losses on the progressives. Both candidates failed to activate the voters, both candidates were basically bad candidates and both did nothing to earn progressive votes. But worse, Hillary Clinton was a sore loser and blamed everything and everyone for her loss, except herself and her campaign obviously. No, it's not progressives fault they lost.

And it is not helping Biden, if you go around and blame progressives and then demand (!) they better vote for him. It's basically spitting in their faces and saying: I only stop if you vote for my candidate. All you will achieve is making even more sure progressive will be revulsed from Biden, if this is how his supporters behave.

Last edited by Mnementh - on 10 April 2020

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Moren said:

Whatever.

Don't ever pretend to care about social, economic or voting issues ever again, and don't pretend to care about the same issues Bernie does.

Nope. Don't you dare to try to spin things, by stating that voting for a candidate that doesn't care about social, economic or voting issues is somehow caring for these issues. It is not.

I don't care if you say that voting for Biden is voting for the lesser evil. Do so if you think it right. But don't say that a vote for Biden is somehow progressive. It is not. It may be accepting the shitty reality or something like that. And I tell you something else: the moment Biden will support progressive policies the progressives will start voting for him.

Also, it is somehow hilarious, that Biden-supporters seemingly have already cold feet and preemtively blaming a loss that haven't yet happened on progressives.

Last edited by Mnementh - on 10 April 2020

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Moren said:
SpokenTruth said:

And yet....you're pushing for the centrist candidate. 

Yep. That's me. I'd vote for a combination of Dick Cheney, Ronald Reagan, Mitch McConnell, and Newt Gingrich if I could.

Then again, that's basically what Biden is.

The hostility from these Biden-bros is really convincing people to vote for him.



3DS-FC: 4511-1768-7903 (Mii-Name: Mnementh), Nintendo-Network-ID: Mnementh, Switch: SW-7706-3819-9381 (Mnementh)

my greatest games: 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020, 2021, 2022, 2023, 2024

10 years greatest game event!

bets: [peak year] [+], [1], [2], [3], [4]