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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Your thoughts on the Next Ninty Console

Pemalite said:
curl-6 said:

I guess that's the thing; the 3DS aged like a banana left in the sun, yet they still gave it 6 years before they replaced it. People don't buy the Switch for its graphical capabilities so it won't matter so much if it falls further behind.

That's just it. We compare the 3DS against other mobile platforms... And in such comparisons, the 3DS doesn't seem as nearly as dated.
Same should go for the Switch.

...But once you start pitting it against the Xbox One/Playstation 4/PC, then its' limitations quickly becomes apparent... And that is perfectly fine.

Miyamotoo said:

To be fair so big resolution don't have real benefit of screen of size of around 6".

I disagree. The human eye doesn't see in terms of pixels anyway.
1440P just looks significantly sharper... My phones for the last 3-4 years have all had 5.7" 1440P displays or better... And the resolution uptick is certainly noticeable over 1080P, especially when it comes to HUDs/Text.

Miyamotoo said:

1080p would be well enough, also its point that we talking about full console 3D games runing on small device, so they need to paid attention to battery life and heating

My phone with it's 2960x1440 display gets better battery life than the Switch when playing Fortnite.
The displays inherent technology can have just as big influence on battery life than the resolution of the display itself.

In-fact when Samsung increased it's phones displays from 1080P to 1440P in it's mainline Galaxy devices they also had an increase in battery life. Why? Because the newer display technology was more efficient.

Miyamotoo said:

If you want to say but phones already have 2K or even 4K resolutions, phones are totally different thing, they constantly competing with each other to include better specs even half of them dont make too much sense of such a small devices, phones dont play full console 3D games and most of mobile games dont even support highest resolution on phones, also phones with best specs are like 3x more expansive than Switch.

Completely disagree.

However... If you really wish to go down that rabbit hole... There are plenty of cheap crappy chinese tablets on the market with 1080P IPS displays, clearly price isn't the issue.

With that said, you don't need the GPU or CPU power to render games natively at the displays resolution to see the benefits of a higher resolution display... To me, 720P is obsolete, it shouldn't even be a thing as we enter into 2019, not even on a $150 netbook.
1080P is low-end... And 1440P should be the baseline.

mZuzek said:

Resolution doesn't have an effect on storage, but 4K textures do, and heavily so. You know they'll be doing 4K textures if they push 4k, so, there.

720p point is exactly what I'm trying to say. By keeping 1080p as the cap on a more powerful system, it is likely that an increasingly vast majority of the games do run at 1080p while boasting better graphics than they would if they had to render at 4K with 4K textures.

4k Textures were in some 7th gen games. (As in 4096x4096). That is despite most games only operating at 1280x720 output resolution or lower, texture resolution isn't 1:1 with display resolution.

Compression allows textures to take up a fraction of the space... Current 8th gen titles seem to be spending a ton of storage budget on uncompressed 7.1 Audio.

Yup, we definitely disagree, in any case, if you expecting 1440p screen resolution you will probably be disappointed same like you was disappointment with 720p with current Switch.



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curl-6 said:
Soundwave said:

For a product that's portable, it's pretty high end. 

People are buying it because it's just high end enough to be feasible as a console. But if you let that run long in the tooth, that appeal fades and it just because a Game Boy type thing with a TV out. 

Keeping the discrepancy from modern home consoles to the Switch concept within 1 console generation is the key, that's close enough that you can have impressive experiences on the Switch that people don't associate with a portable machine that are relatively modern. PS4/XB1 are better hardware but Zelda: BoTW is still a game and overall experience that's relatively comparable to what you would see on a PS4/XB1.

When you lose the appeal of "wow, this little sucker can really play some modern style high end games" from the Switch concept, that concept as a whole loses a lot of steam. 

I guess we're just gonna have to disagree, the way I see it, from day 1 Switch was never getting the Battlefields, RDRs or Witchers of the PS4/Xbone space, it was selling as Nintendo products have for over two decades now on its first party killer apps. Heck, it's latest system seller, Pokemon Let's Go, looks like a 3DS game in HD yet its got people the world over running out to buy a Switch.

Nothing about the Switch strikes me as a system that's dependent on being technically up to date to sell.

It doesn't need to be on par with the modern stationary home console, but a 1 generation gap (which is a lot still) should be the most they should allow. 

It's not a Game Boy or DS or Wii either. It's not something that's going to sell off "being cheap + kids + casuals" either. 75% of Switch owners own a PS4 or XB1, these are core players, Switch is a high end product for a portable machine, there's never really been a portable that delivers full scale console type experiences before that don't feel like they're 10+ years behind what's relevant today. 

Pokemon Go doesn't look that great, but the Pokemon producer has already said Gen 8 will look considerably better, and Zelda BoTW, Mario Kart 8, and Mario Odyssey ... you could put any of those games in 4K resolution on PS4 Pro or XB1 X and people would happily play them and not really make a big fuss about the fidelity. 

Doesn't look far off from this on PS4:

Is still at least somewhat in the same ball park, it's not DS to PS3/XBox 360 (a two generation gap). 

Last edited by Soundwave - on 28 November 2018

Soundwave said:

Waiting until 2022/2023 will be a disaster. IMO Nintendo knows this 100%, they're not going to wait that long. There is no Game Boy/DS second product line for Nintendo to fall back on if the "console" fails either. It's far too risky to do things that way. The upgrade cycle has to change.

Even look at their software by the end of 2019 Nintendo will have used up Mario 3D, Zelda, Pokemon, Pokemon Lets Go, Animal Crossing, Splatoon, Mario Kart, Smash Brothers, Luigi's Mansion, probably Metroid, Fire Emblem ... they can make sequels to these IP but the hardware boost is going to be nowhere near the same because much of the fanbase will own a Switch already for the pre-existing game. 

With what new IP are they going to sell the Switch with for 2020, 2021, and 2022? It will be a disaster with declining sales every year and no, some little New 3DS style upgrade or even Switch Mini is not going to be enough for Nintendo to maintain a high level of sales. 

Well they they will not wait until 2023/2024. without any revision, New Switch, Switch Pocket, Switch TV, Switch Pro...are all possible revision for current Switch. We most likely receiving first revision next year.

They don't need big hardware boost to maintain good sales with their revisions in any case, hardware strength is not what selling Switch on first place. They will maintain sales with price cuts, revisions and new releases, like they were doing with 3DS for instance (just with big difference that Switch is and it will selling better than 3DS in any case).

 

mZuzek said: 

Edit: also, honestly I hope they don't go 4K. 1080p is absolutely fine enough in my opinion, and by not upgrading the resolution it means you can have better graphics without nearly as much power - never mind the storage issue.

Adoption of 4K TV is getting much faster, and in 5 years 4k will certainly be standard, also upscaled 1080p on 4K TV doesnt look too good. I dont expecting that Switch 2 will have power to push native 4K, but some some higher resolution than 1080p that could upscale much better to 4K (maybe 1440p for docked mode) is very possible.  

 

CaptainExplosion said: 

-Wait until 2022-23 to release it.

-Be 2.5 times more powerful than the Switch

 

Sure Switch 2 would be much stronger than than that, I mean 2-3x more power is possible even now with just Tegra X2 instead of Tegra X1, and who knows how much strong mobile chips we will have in around 5 years.

 

SKMBlake said: 
mZuzek said: 

Eh... the Wii U was nothing like the Wii, not at all. It had the software/hardware backwards compatibility but was overall a much different product. Had a weird new controller no one understood, an incredibly slow OS that was far worse than the Wii's, and was honestly garbage at doing what the Wii did best - local multiplayer.

The Wii was basically a more powerful gamecube with minor changes and the Wii U was basically a more powerful Wii. Wii U even uses Wiimotes to play multiplat games, and can even run Gamecube games. For 3 generations, Nintendo released nearly the same console over and over.

And so was the Gameboy Advance, then the DS and then the 3DS.

So, it is wrong to say "It's Nintendo so it won't happen" cause Nintendo did it several times.

The Wii was basically upgraded GC (its same GC hardware just overclocked with motion controls), but Wii U defintly is not improved Wii, it has improved CPU, much modern GPU, more modern and much more RAM...Wii U is true next gen compared to Wii, same couldnt be said for Wii compared to GC.



Soundwave said:
curl-6 said:

I guess we're just gonna have to disagree, the way I see it, from day 1 Switch was never getting the Battlefields, RDRs or Witchers of the PS4/Xbone space, it was selling as Nintendo products have for over two decades now on its first party killer apps. Heck, it's latest system seller, Pokemon Let's Go, looks like a 3DS game in HD yet its got people the world over running out to buy a Switch.

Nothing about the Switch strikes me as a system that's dependent on being technically up to date to sell.

It doesn't need to be on par with the modern stationary home console, but a 1 generation gap (which is a lot still) should be the most they should allow. 

It's not a Game Boy or DS or Wii either. It's not something that's going to sell off "being cheap + kids + casuals" either. 75% of Switch owners own a PS4 or XB1, these are core players, Switch is a high end product for a portable machine, there's never really been a portable that delivers full scale console type experiences before that don't feel like they're 10+ years behind what's relevant today. 

I think you're placing too much weight on the largely mythical "hardcore vs casual" dichotomy. The real world is not that black and white, most consumers are neither forum-going "hardcore" gamers nor stereotypical "casuals" but some shade in between.



Bet with Liquidlaser: I say PS5 and Xbox Series will sell more than 56 million combined by the end of 2023.

curl-6 said:
Soundwave said:

It doesn't need to be on par with the modern stationary home console, but a 1 generation gap (which is a lot still) should be the most they should allow. 

It's not a Game Boy or DS or Wii either. It's not something that's going to sell off "being cheap + kids + casuals" either. 75% of Switch owners own a PS4 or XB1, these are core players, Switch is a high end product for a portable machine, there's never really been a portable that delivers full scale console type experiences before that don't feel like they're 10+ years behind what's relevant today. 

I think you're placing too much weight on the largely mythical "hardcore vs casual" dichotomy. The real world is not that black and white, most consumers are neither forum-going "hardcore" gamers nor stereotypical "casuals" but some shade in between.

The point remains the Switch is a new kind of product even by Nintendo standards. The concept is not just appealing because it's a "Nintendo system". The whole idea of a "portable console" in itself is appealling. And we see surprising stuff in Switch software performance, like Diablo III outselling the new Nintendo Labo kit, lol. Which is fine. That's exciting, who the fuck just wants to keep repeating the DS again and again. 

That whole philosophy of using the lowest end hardware won't work any more because smartphones cornered the market on cheap/low end software. And that's fine too. Nintendo games are (believe it or not) while not necessarily requiring the best hardware, still better on better hardware. I wouldn't want to play Mario Kart 8 on the Wii or 3DS, sorry. 

Last edited by Soundwave - on 28 November 2018

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Soundwave said:
curl-6 said:

I think you're placing too much weight on the largely mythical "hardcore vs casual" dichotomy. The real world is not that black and white, most consumers are neither forum-going "hardcore" gamers nor stereotypical "casuals" but some shade in between.

The point remains the Switch is a new kind of product even by Nintendo standards. The concept is not just appealing because it's a "Nintendo system". The whole idea of a "portable console" in itself is appealling. And we see surprising stuff in Switch software performance, like Diablo III outselling the new Nintendo Labo kit, lol. Which is fine. That's exciting, who the fuck just wants to keep repeating the DS again and again. 

That whole philosophy of using the lowest end hardware won't work any more because smartphones cornered the market on cheap/low end software. And that's fine too. Nintendo games are (believe it or not) while not necessarily requiring the best hardware, still better on better hardware. I wouldn't want to play Mario Kart 8 on the Wii or 3DS, sorry. 

But can we really look at a system that's flying off shelves on the back of Pokemon Let's Go, a game that would've looked outdated in 2012, and surmise that being technically up to date is one of the system's key selling points? I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree here.



Bet with Liquidlaser: I say PS5 and Xbox Series will sell more than 56 million combined by the end of 2023.

curl-6 said:
Soundwave said:

The point remains the Switch is a new kind of product even by Nintendo standards. The concept is not just appealing because it's a "Nintendo system". The whole idea of a "portable console" in itself is appealling. And we see surprising stuff in Switch software performance, like Diablo III outselling the new Nintendo Labo kit, lol. Which is fine. That's exciting, who the fuck just wants to keep repeating the DS again and again. 

That whole philosophy of using the lowest end hardware won't work any more because smartphones cornered the market on cheap/low end software. And that's fine too. Nintendo games are (believe it or not) while not necessarily requiring the best hardware, still better on better hardware. I wouldn't want to play Mario Kart 8 on the Wii or 3DS, sorry. 

But can we really look at a system that's flying off shelves on the back of Pokemon Let's Go, a game that would've looked outdated in 2012, and surmise that being technically up to date is one of the system's key selling points? I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree here.

Switch was successful long before Pokemon Let's Go was announced though, that game is simply just carrying momentum the system already established 16 months prior. 



Soundwave said:
curl-6 said:

But can we really look at a system that's flying off shelves on the back of Pokemon Let's Go, a game that would've looked outdated in 2012, and surmise that being technically up to date is one of the system's key selling points? I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree here.

Switch was successful long before Pokemon Let's Go was announced though, that game is simply just carrying momentum the system already established 16 months prior. 

And games 4 years from now will likewise simply carry momentum established by the evergreen killer apps of now, next year, and beyond. They can look as outdated then as Let's Go does now and it won't matter.



Bet with Liquidlaser: I say PS5 and Xbox Series will sell more than 56 million combined by the end of 2023.

Im expecting new updated versions of switch ever 2 or 3 years starting with the new on next year.



curl-6 said:
Soundwave said:

Switch was successful long before Pokemon Let's Go was announced though, that game is simply just carrying momentum the system already established 16 months prior. 

And games 4 years from now will likewise simply carry momentum established by the evergreen killer apps of now, next year, and beyond. They can look as outdated then as Let's Go does now and it won't matter.

On the same system? I doubt it. Not unless Nintendo is OK with yearly shipments in the 5 million/year range. 

You're turning the Switch into the 3DS if you're just going to let the chipset age that badly, and IMO the sales appeal will drop to a more narrow audience. 

By the end of 2019 alone, Nintendo will have burned through the following franchises:

3D Mario, 2D Mario, Smash Bros, Zelda, Mario Kart, Pokemon Lets Go, Pokemon Gen 8, Animal Crossing, Fire Emblem, Splatoon, DKC, possibly Metroid. 

That's pretty much most of their A/B-tier roster. That's also a big issue. Yes you can make a Mario Odyssey 2 or Mario Kart 9 even, but you're not going to get large hardware boosts in the same way because large portions of the fan base for that IP will already own a Switch. 

A new Switch model with a legitimately higher end chipset that is comparable to what the XBox One X and PS4 Pro (2-3x the power of the base unit) around 2020 are to their predecessors will boost Switch yearly sales, there's just no way it won't. From a business POV it's the right play. 

There's not even any loyalty that you get from the "we want 5-6 years of support no matter what!" crowd, did Nintendo get any loyalty for supporting the Wii for 6 years? Nope, that audience base dumped them like a bad habit with Wii U. Supported the DS for 7 years, and lost half their market with 3DS. You get really very little "bonus points" for pleasing a very small portion of the overall consumer base. Yet everyone and their grandma bought a DS after they only supported the GBA for 3 years.

Last edited by Soundwave - on 28 November 2018