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Forums - Sony Discussion - PS4 exclusives should get a 4K 60 with high resolution assets update next gen Update: Confirmed

Intrinsic said:
vivster said:

The PS4 can't even play every game at 1080p60.

Its a numbers thing. 

If 1.8TF can give you mostly 1080p@3ofps

Then 7.2TF can give you 4k@3fps of the same game using the same assets with the only bump being resolution. And this is being very generous because not everything scales up too.

So its safe to assume that a GPU with around 12TF-15TF can give you 4k@60fps of that same game with those same assets.

But this is the PS5 running games originally designed to run on the PS4 in 1080p@30fps. I expect actual PS5 games to be back at running at 4k@30fps.

DonFerrari said:

How would they explain it? They removed BC on PS3 with 0 backlash, didn't put BC on PS4 and had no hurdle, MS put BC on X1 and it didn't even move the needle.

You'll have to justify the extra profit Sony would do with BC or how much you can accertain it would lose without BC. Because all I see is you and others wanting they to put a feature for free that would remove revenue from double dipping.

Doesn't seem something as certain as you like to think.

No. Launch PS3s had BC. And even then it was harder to implement but they still did it. 

Going from PS3 to PS4 is not the same as going from PS4 to PS5. One reason being that now PS+ is mandatory for online play and two digital distribution is a lot bigger in the 8th gen than it was in the 7th and will be even bigger in the 9th. And you aren't lookin at the big picture. Which is also why MS was pushing so hard for cross platform MP. Ensuring platform continuity via BC is a great way to ensure that everyone that owns a PS4 and has bought any number of digital games is carried over to the PS5. If you tell them they cant play the games they have in the PS4 library in their PSN accounts on the PS5, so why cant they just buy an XB since it means they are really starting afresh anyways.

Take me for instance. I don't have a single physical game. If sony told me come the PS5 that I cant play any f these games that I have in my digital library on the PS5 but I can see XB2 playing XB1 games? I will never buy a sony platform again. simply because they have basically ensured all the games I bought over the last 7yrs has become vaporware. 

Another way to look at it, if the PS5 doesn't support BC it will be like google releasing android 10 with no support for any android apps whatsoever. 

And even having BC Sony removed with no backlash, they ended up even increasing sales.

Very little costumers buy new consoles to play old games. You and others here are an anedote. As much as me that I only buy the games I like in physical format, digital only for 80% discounts.

If you have bought PS4 and games on it, then changing to X2 won't carry any game to there as well.

Otter said:

DonFerrari said: 

How would they explain it? They removed BC on PS3 with 0 backlash, didn't put BC on PS4 and had no hurdle, MS put BC on X1 and it didn't even move the needle.

You'll have to justify the extra profit Sony would do with BC or how much you can accertain it would lose without BC. Because all I see is you and others wanting they to put a feature for free that would remove revenue from double dipping.

Doesn't seem something as certain as you like to think.

We can't tangibly say how much it adds to a platforms appeal and there has never been a clean case study for us to use to determine whether it does helps sale a lot during launch periods. PS3 was $600 and had a price cut to coincide with the removal of BC, the Xbox One didn't receive BC until 3 years in. What we can say however is that Console's for which BC makes sense have always had it. 

Unless PS4 BC adds some notable cost to the PS5, history suggests that it will have it. 

Also I think some of you greatly overestimate the value of remasters for Platform holders like Microsoft/Nintendo/Sony, these are not primarily software companies. Many people who bought The Last of Us on PS4 had never played it on PS3, remaster sales of recent games will always give slightly misleading impressions since said games would have just continued to sell in their OG form (of course not necessarily as good). In the race to establish a 100m+ platform which sells equal amount of games each year, I don't think think they're gonna give up a potential edge over the competitor at launch just so they can sell 10m remasters across the following years.

We've seen with the PS3 and Xbox One how crucial it is not to mess a consoles launch. And if PS5 and Xbox Next are launching within 12months of each other and one of them has native BC and the other doesn't, that will be a huge talking point and probably one of the key distinguishing factors between them. Again there has never been a fair case to compare in the past.

You are being disingenuous at best. PS3 removed BC, no backlash (removal of Other OS had more backlash than PS2 BC removal), on PS4 you can't play the PS1 classics that you bought on PS3 not much complaining. X1 added BC and didn't increase sales.

BS is a "luxury" amenity on the console.

If Fifa that is a yearly game with small improvements and prices plummeting months after release doesn't show massive buy from the older/second hand games, because people want what is new and shinier why would it be such a big and important thing to have BC?

Even MS numbers (that they offuscate a lot) on the BC doesn't show a very high usage in terms of hours per player per month. It was something like less than 4h/month/user, that isn't something much important.

Plus TLOU alone sold about 10M on PS4, if you get all other remasters it had much higher number.

You have a lot of emulators that are very easy to use and still remasters/remakes make a lot of success, much more than buying old games to play on new console for the same effect.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

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If The Last of US Part II will be a Launch PS5 Game, native 4K/60 fps with max details/assets/textures/lighting/etc, well, I would never play it on PS4, even if PS4 version will come out earlier. As much as I'm dying and the wait is killing me, I wanna play the best experience ever, of course, and I'm ready to wait, in case I have to wait...This Game has chances to be the Game of the Century :D

4K/60fps and max details on most PS4 hit would be so welcome, and I would play again GOW, Uncharted4, RDR2, TitanFall 2, MGS5, etc for sure.



”Every great dream begins with a dreamer. Always remember, you have within you the strength, the patience, and the passion to reach for the stars to change the world.”

Harriet Tubman.

double post.



”Every great dream begins with a dreamer. Always remember, you have within you the strength, the patience, and the passion to reach for the stars to change the world.”

Harriet Tubman.

Intrinsic said:

The "remaster" will be a natural by product of just having a much more powerful X86 hardware (which the PS4 also is so by default that already means native support). If we are lucky we may et some patches for a few older titles adding in 4k textures and stuff. Highly unlikely though.

Just because the consoles are x86 based, doesn't mean they are able to maintain backwards compatibility.
So much has changed with PC hardware since 2013.

Intrinsic said:

If 1.8TF can give you mostly 1080p@3ofps

Then 7.2TF can give you 4k@3fps of the same game using the same assets with the only bump being resolution. And this is being very generous because not everything scales up too.

So its safe to assume that a GPU with around 12TF-15TF can give you 4k@60fps of that same game with those same assets.

But this is the PS5 running games originally designed to run on the PS4 in 1080p@30fps. I expect actual PS5 games to be back at running at 4k@30fps.

Nope. All of that is wrong.

Last edited by Pemalite - on 03 January 2019

--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

Sony's patent already tells us this is a thing. Not sure if it will be used for PS4 games, though. I think Sony is definitely aiming for PS5 to be B/C with PS1, PS2, and PS4. Hopefully, they get PS3 on there, as well.

But, it seems they want devs to be able to insert higer-res assets into the games as easily as possible. I'm sure this will come at a small price, like $4.99 for a PS1 Classic (the same ones that are already on the store), and another $4.99 for the update patch. Not sure how many devs will take advantage of this, but it is a chance at extra revenue for old ass games without all the resources and risk of a full remake. It may also incentivize devs/pubs to put more Classics on the PS4 Store.



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DonFerrari said: 

You are being disingenuous at best. PS3 removed BC, no backlash (removal of Other OS had more backlash than PS2 BC removal), on PS4 you can't play the PS1 classics that you bought on PS3 not much complaining. X1 added BC and didn't increase sales.

BS is a "luxury" amenity on the console.

If Fifa that is a yearly game with small improvements and prices plummeting months after release doesn't show massive buy from the older/second hand games, because people want what is new and shinier why would it be such a big and important thing to have BC?

Even MS numbers (that they offuscate a lot) on the BC doesn't show a very high usage in terms of hours per player per month. It was something like less than 4h/month/user, that isn't something much important.

Plus TLOU alone sold about 10M on PS4, if you get all other remasters it had much higher number.

You have a lot of emulators that are very easy to use and still remasters/remakes make a lot of success, much more than buying old games to play on new console for the same effect.

How exactly? Again I stressed a fair case study. PS3 cutting BC was met with a massive price cut of $100. How are you to determine the impact on sales? 

Neither PS4 or Xbox One launched with BC and when Xbox One got segmented support we were already 3 years into the generation where it was obviously not going to make a huge dent.

Going back to scenario ahead, the year is 2020 PS5 and Xbox Next just launched, one plays the last 7 years of games that you own and can be up for cheap, the other does not. You honestly think thats a scenario that Sony/Microsoft doesn't care to avoid? And fundamentally you've missed the point I stressed which is that whenever BC has made sense, it has been implemented. Only vastly different architecture, costly hardware based solutions or conflict is storage medium has made the big 3 cut BC. I don't see any of the above being an issue with PS4 > PS5 transitions. 

And on your statement "BC is a luxury", I don't think anyone is suggesting otherwise, it's still a no brainer.

Last edited by Otter - on 03 January 2019

Otter said:
DonFerrari said: 

You are being disingenuous at best. PS3 removed BC, no backlash (removal of Other OS had more backlash than PS2 BC removal), on PS4 you can't play the PS1 classics that you bought on PS3 not much complaining. X1 added BC and didn't increase sales.

BS is a "luxury" amenity on the console.

If Fifa that is a yearly game with small improvements and prices plummeting months after release doesn't show massive buy from the older/second hand games, because people want what is new and shinier why would it be such a big and important thing to have BC?

Even MS numbers (that they offuscate a lot) on the BC doesn't show a very high usage in terms of hours per player per month. It was something like less than 4h/month/user, that isn't something much important.

Plus TLOU alone sold about 10M on PS4, if you get all other remasters it had much higher number.

You have a lot of emulators that are very easy to use and still remasters/remakes make a lot of success, much more than buying old games to play on new console for the same effect.

How exactly? Again I stressed a fair case study. PS3 cutting BC was met with a massive price cut of $100. How are you to determine the impact on sales? 

Neither PS4 or Xbox One launched with BC and when Xbox One got segmented support we were already 3 years into the generation where it was obviously not going to make a huge dent.

Going back to scenario ahead, the year is 2020 PS5 and Xbox Next just launched, one plays the last 7 years of games that you own and can be up for cheap, the other does not. You honestly think thats a scenario that Sony/Microsoft doesn't care to avoid? And fundamentally you've missed the point I stressed which is that whenever BC has made sense, it has been implemented. Only vastly different architecture, costly hardware based solutions or conflict is storage medium has made the big 3 cut BC. I don't see any of the above being an issue with PS4 > PS5 transitions. 

And on your statement "BC is a luxury", I don't think anyone is suggesting otherwise, it's still a no brainer.

Because not only sales spiked greatly but also public opinion backlash was minimal.

PS3 was very much 3 years into the gen when it's sales accelerated.

Exclusives and new games are much more relevant than BC. So if Sony keeps the high quality exclusives and MS doesn't overtake it then natural momentum will have PS5 ahead of X2. Also if X2 have BC and PS5 don't even if some gamers put their dislike and no publisher openly talks about it they will prefer to resell the games than people just replaying what was already sold, so even 3rd party support is likely to be greater on the one that doesn't put BC but incentive remaster/remake/collections.

And I'm not even talking about any big dent. We didn't had any noticeable effect with BC on X1 even when it was accompanied with good price cuts as well.

Remaster wasn't a think going strong on PS1/PS2, game development landscape was totally different.

If you agree it is a luxury you are agreeing it isn't necessary then it doesn't really adds to the bottomline.

It is a no-brainer because you and others here wants BC (I don't mind either way, plus I keep my consoles and would only play last gen games if they were improved).



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

DonFerrari said:
twintail said:

Sony aren't going to have a PS5 that is not compatible with PS4. It is absurd that you think in this current climate that they wouldn't. Perhaps, the patches to upgrade the games (beyond whatever the PS5 will naturally do, kinda of like PS4P boost mode) will come with a cost, but Sony aren't going to clamp down on what is essentially making them the bulk of their profits: digital content from games, subscriptions and micro-transactions of any game. PS4 BC on PS5 pretty much gifts Sony next gen. They know it. Even MS knows it hence their moves to bolster GamePass and their game studios base.  

As I said before, BC and remasters can coexist. One doesn't negate the other. 

Sony certainly knows what is possible and what can be done, and it exactly seems like Sony isn't interested in doing it.

Based on what exactly? The PS4 not having BC with PS3? Because 1 remaster they released sold incredibly well?

Look, maybe PS5 doesn't have BC with PS4, but I am sorry: I think it s pretty short sighted to not see the larger picture in play here. There is far too much money to be lost from not offering BC next gen then there is to not offering remasters. One only needs to look at the Playstation divisions financials for the last quarters to realise how a huge percentage of their profits is network based. And that profit comes off maintaining their online userbase. Making a hard cut with PS5 is essentially giving consumers the option of jumping to the next Xbox, cause it wouldn't really matter where they go then. Sony exclusives are not the primary driving force of most PS4 sales: it's multiplatform games and Sony will want to ensure ppl keep playing these games from PS4 to PS5.

Unless you can provide some concrete info that remasters have been allowing Sony to bathe in money, then you yourself are just being anecdotal. More evidence points towards PS4 PSN continuing into PS5 than not (beyond what I have been written here).

and no, contrary to your unsubstantiated opinion to someone else that ppl saying PS5 will have BC are ppl who want BC, I honestly don't care if there is BC since I have barely ever used the function on any device I have owned.



twintail said:
DonFerrari said:

Sony certainly knows what is possible and what can be done, and it exactly seems like Sony isn't interested in doing it.

Based on what exactly? The PS4 not having BC with PS3? Because 1 remaster they released sold incredibly well?

Look, maybe PS5 doesn't have BC with PS4, but I am sorry: I think it s pretty short sighted to not see the larger picture in play here. There is far too much money to be lost from not offering BC next gen then there is to not offering remasters. One only needs to look at the Playstation divisions financials for the last quarters to realise how a huge percentage of their profits is network based. And that profit comes off maintaining their online userbase. Making a hard cut with PS5 is essentially giving consumers the option of jumping to the next Xbox, cause it wouldn't really matter where they go then. Sony exclusives are not the primary driving force of most PS4 sales: it's multiplatform games and Sony will want to ensure ppl keep playing these games from PS4 to PS5.

Unless you can provide some concrete info that remasters have been allowing Sony to bathe in money, then you yourself are just being anecdotal. More evidence points towards PS4 PSN continuing into PS5 than not (beyond what I have been written here).

and no, contrary to your unsubstantiated opinion to someone else that ppl saying PS5 will have BC are ppl who want BC, I honestly don't care if there is BC since I have barely ever used the function on any device I have owned.

Sony games aren't heavy on mp much less gaas so their online may not benefit from bc.

And I have no problem accepting there is a good chance of BC or the goodwill they could get or even how much easier than ps3 bc it would be. But giving it as certain based on nothing is silly.

We have had Sony heads saying how BC was overtalked and underused as a reason they didn't put it on PS4 nor would add later. We had PS3 dropping BC without much issue.

Sony certainly could make PS5 BC capable and locking it with some service of PS+ or offering to easy port/crossgen to devs so they can either have cross sales as we had at the begining of this gen and even keeping username/save so people could migrate.

There is several options they could take that would benefit their partners more than just put free BC and no double dips.

Sony wasn't the only making remaster/remakes (and they selling a lot), they had a good bunch of 3rd parties doing the same.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

NobleTeam360 said:
Or Sony could just make the games BC and provide free 4k 60fps updates like MS does with some BC games on One X.

What part of update do you not understand?

Hint: Its there in the title.