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Forums - Sony Discussion - PS4 exclusives should get a 4K 60 with high resolution assets update next gen Update: Confirmed

vivster said:

The PS4 can't even play every game at 1080p60.

Its a numbers thing. 

If 1.8TF can give you mostly 1080p@3ofps

Then 7.2TF can give you 4k@3fps of the same game using the same assets with the only bump being resolution. And this is being very generous because not everything scales up too.

So its safe to assume that a GPU with around 12TF-15TF can give you 4k@60fps of that same game with those same assets.

But this is the PS5 running games originally designed to run on the PS4 in 1080p@30fps. I expect actual PS5 games to be back at running at 4k@30fps.

DonFerrari said:

How would they explain it? They removed BC on PS3 with 0 backlash, didn't put BC on PS4 and had no hurdle, MS put BC on X1 and it didn't even move the needle.

You'll have to justify the extra profit Sony would do with BC or how much you can accertain it would lose without BC. Because all I see is you and others wanting they to put a feature for free that would remove revenue from double dipping.

Doesn't seem something as certain as you like to think.

No. Launch PS3s had BC. And even then it was harder to implement but they still did it. 

Going from PS3 to PS4 is not the same as going from PS4 to PS5. One reason being that now PS+ is mandatory for online play and two digital distribution is a lot bigger in the 8th gen than it was in the 7th and will be even bigger in the 9th. And you aren't lookin at the big picture. Which is also why MS was pushing so hard for cross platform MP. Ensuring platform continuity via BC is a great way to ensure that everyone that owns a PS4 and has bought any number of digital games is carried over to the PS5. If you tell them they cant play the games they have in the PS4 library in their PSN accounts on the PS5, so why cant they just buy an XB since it means they are really starting afresh anyways.

Take me for instance. I don't have a single physical game. If sony told me come the PS5 that I cant play any f these games that I have in my digital library on the PS5 but I can see XB2 playing XB1 games? I will never buy a sony platform again. simply because they have basically ensured all the games I bought over the last 7yrs has become vaporware. 

Another way to look at it, if the PS5 doesn't support BC it will be like google releasing android 10 with no support for any android apps whatsoever. 

Last edited by Intrinsic - on 03 January 2019

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vivster said:
GOWTLOZ said:

PS4 games at 4K 60 fps would be no problem.

The PS4 can't even play every game at 1080p60.

PS4 exclusives are 1080p 30 fps on the base console and go upto checkerboard 4K 30 fps on Pro. We know Pro is bottled by its weak CPU and its lack of memory.

PS5 is supposedly going to have Ryzen CPU and a GPU 3 times more powerful in terms of teraflops, with a more modern architecture and with 16 GB of RAM atleast as Xbox One X already has 12 GB. The suggested specs should easily run PS4 Pro games at twice the resolution, as checkerboarding halves the resolution on one axis and twice the framerate, which is fairly easy since the GPU is hugely powerful and even PS4 Pro's weak CPU can run some exclusives at 1080p 60 fps. The 16 GB RAM will allow 4K textures. I'm certain PS5 will be capable of doing this if these are the specifications, but of course Sony needs to allow its developers to upgrade their games on PS5.



DonFerrari said: 

How would they explain it? They removed BC on PS3 with 0 backlash, didn't put BC on PS4 and had no hurdle, MS put BC on X1 and it didn't even move the needle.

You'll have to justify the extra profit Sony would do with BC or how much you can accertain it would lose without BC. Because all I see is you and others wanting they to put a feature for free that would remove revenue from double dipping.

Doesn't seem something as certain as you like to think.

We can't tangibly say how much it adds to a platforms appeal and there has never been a clean case study for us to use to determine whether it does helps sale a lot during launch periods. PS3 was $600 and had a price cut to coincide with the removal of BC, the Xbox One didn't receive BC until 3 years in. What we can say however is that Console's for which BC makes sense have always had it. 

Unless PS4 BC adds some notable cost to the PS5, history suggests that it will have it. 

Also I think some of you greatly overestimate the value of remasters for Platform holders like Microsoft/Nintendo/Sony, these are not primarily software companies. Many people who bought The Last of Us on PS4 had never played it on PS3, remaster sales of recent games will always give slightly misleading impressions since said games would have just continued to sell in their OG form (of course not necessarily as good). In the race to establish a 100m+ platform which sells equal amount of games each year, I don't think think they're gonna give up a potential edge over the competitor at launch just so they can sell 10m remasters across the following years.

We've seen with the PS3 and Xbox One how crucial it is not to mess a consoles launch. And if PS5 and Xbox Next are launching within 12months of each other and one of them has native BC and the other doesn't, that will be a huge talking point and probably one of the key distinguishing factors between them. Again there has never been a fair case to compare in the past.



Or Sony could just make the games BC and provide free 4k 60fps updates like MS does with some BC games on One X.



Intrinsic said:
vivster said:

The PS4 can't even play every game at 1080p60.

Its a numbers thing. 

If 1.8TF can give you mostly 1080p@3ofps

Then 7.2TF can give you 4k@3fps of the same game using the same assets with the only bump being resolution. And this is being very generous because not everything scales up too.

So its safe to assume that a GPU with around 12TF-15TF can give you 4k@60fps of that same game with those same assets.

But this is the PS5 running games originally designed to run on the PS4 in 1080p@30fps. I expect actual PS5 games to be back at running at 4k@30fps.

DonFerrari said:

How would they explain it? They removed BC on PS3 with 0 backlash, didn't put BC on PS4 and had no hurdle, MS put BC on X1 and it didn't even move the needle.

You'll have to justify the extra profit Sony would do with BC or how much you can accertain it would lose without BC. Because all I see is you and others wanting they to put a feature for free that would remove revenue from double dipping.

Doesn't seem something as certain as you like to think.

No. Launch PS3s had BC. And even then it was harder to implement but they still did it. 

Going from PS3 to PS4 is not the same as going from PS4 to PS5. One reason being that now PS+ is mandatory for online play and two digital distribution is a lot bigger in the 8th gen than it was in the 7th and will be even bigger in the 9th. And you aren't lookin at the big picture. Which is also why MS was pushing so hard for cross platform MP. Ensuring platform continuity via BC is a great way to ensure that everyone that owns a PS4 and has bought any number of digital games is carried over to the PS5. If you tell them they cant play the games they have in the PS4 library in their PSN accounts on the PS5, so why cant they just buy an XB since it means they are really starting afresh anyways.

Take me for instance. I don't have a single physical game. If sony told me come the PS5 that I cant play any f these games that I have in my digital library on the PS5 but I can see XB2 playing XB1 games? I will never buy a sony platform again. simply because they have basically ensured all the games I bought over the last 7yrs has become vaporware. 

Another way to look at it, if the PS5 doesn't support BC it will be like google releasing android 10 with no support for any android apps whatsoever. 

And even having BC Sony removed with no backlash, they ended up even increasing sales.

Very little costumers buy new consoles to play old games. You and others here are an anedote. As much as me that I only buy the games I like in physical format, digital only for 80% discounts.

If you have bought PS4 and games on it, then changing to X2 won't carry any game to there as well.

Otter said:

DonFerrari said: 

How would they explain it? They removed BC on PS3 with 0 backlash, didn't put BC on PS4 and had no hurdle, MS put BC on X1 and it didn't even move the needle.

You'll have to justify the extra profit Sony would do with BC or how much you can accertain it would lose without BC. Because all I see is you and others wanting they to put a feature for free that would remove revenue from double dipping.

Doesn't seem something as certain as you like to think.

We can't tangibly say how much it adds to a platforms appeal and there has never been a clean case study for us to use to determine whether it does helps sale a lot during launch periods. PS3 was $600 and had a price cut to coincide with the removal of BC, the Xbox One didn't receive BC until 3 years in. What we can say however is that Console's for which BC makes sense have always had it. 

Unless PS4 BC adds some notable cost to the PS5, history suggests that it will have it. 

Also I think some of you greatly overestimate the value of remasters for Platform holders like Microsoft/Nintendo/Sony, these are not primarily software companies. Many people who bought The Last of Us on PS4 had never played it on PS3, remaster sales of recent games will always give slightly misleading impressions since said games would have just continued to sell in their OG form (of course not necessarily as good). In the race to establish a 100m+ platform which sells equal amount of games each year, I don't think think they're gonna give up a potential edge over the competitor at launch just so they can sell 10m remasters across the following years.

We've seen with the PS3 and Xbox One how crucial it is not to mess a consoles launch. And if PS5 and Xbox Next are launching within 12months of each other and one of them has native BC and the other doesn't, that will be a huge talking point and probably one of the key distinguishing factors between them. Again there has never been a fair case to compare in the past.

You are being disingenuous at best. PS3 removed BC, no backlash (removal of Other OS had more backlash than PS2 BC removal), on PS4 you can't play the PS1 classics that you bought on PS3 not much complaining. X1 added BC and didn't increase sales.

BS is a "luxury" amenity on the console.

If Fifa that is a yearly game with small improvements and prices plummeting months after release doesn't show massive buy from the older/second hand games, because people want what is new and shinier why would it be such a big and important thing to have BC?

Even MS numbers (that they offuscate a lot) on the BC doesn't show a very high usage in terms of hours per player per month. It was something like less than 4h/month/user, that isn't something much important.

Plus TLOU alone sold about 10M on PS4, if you get all other remasters it had much higher number.

You have a lot of emulators that are very easy to use and still remasters/remakes make a lot of success, much more than buying old games to play on new console for the same effect.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

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If The Last of US Part II will be a Launch PS5 Game, native 4K/60 fps with max details/assets/textures/lighting/etc, well, I would never play it on PS4, even if PS4 version will come out earlier. As much as I'm dying and the wait is killing me, I wanna play the best experience ever, of course, and I'm ready to wait, in case I have to wait...This Game has chances to be the Game of the Century :D

4K/60fps and max details on most PS4 hit would be so welcome, and I would play again GOW, Uncharted4, RDR2, TitanFall 2, MGS5, etc for sure.



”Every great dream begins with a dreamer. Always remember, you have within you the strength, the patience, and the passion to reach for the stars to change the world.”

Harriet Tubman.

double post.



”Every great dream begins with a dreamer. Always remember, you have within you the strength, the patience, and the passion to reach for the stars to change the world.”

Harriet Tubman.

Intrinsic said:

The "remaster" will be a natural by product of just having a much more powerful X86 hardware (which the PS4 also is so by default that already means native support). If we are lucky we may et some patches for a few older titles adding in 4k textures and stuff. Highly unlikely though.

Just because the consoles are x86 based, doesn't mean they are able to maintain backwards compatibility.
So much has changed with PC hardware since 2013.

Intrinsic said:

If 1.8TF can give you mostly 1080p@3ofps

Then 7.2TF can give you 4k@3fps of the same game using the same assets with the only bump being resolution. And this is being very generous because not everything scales up too.

So its safe to assume that a GPU with around 12TF-15TF can give you 4k@60fps of that same game with those same assets.

But this is the PS5 running games originally designed to run on the PS4 in 1080p@30fps. I expect actual PS5 games to be back at running at 4k@30fps.

Nope. All of that is wrong.

Last edited by Pemalite - on 03 January 2019

--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

Sony's patent already tells us this is a thing. Not sure if it will be used for PS4 games, though. I think Sony is definitely aiming for PS5 to be B/C with PS1, PS2, and PS4. Hopefully, they get PS3 on there, as well.

But, it seems they want devs to be able to insert higer-res assets into the games as easily as possible. I'm sure this will come at a small price, like $4.99 for a PS1 Classic (the same ones that are already on the store), and another $4.99 for the update patch. Not sure how many devs will take advantage of this, but it is a chance at extra revenue for old ass games without all the resources and risk of a full remake. It may also incentivize devs/pubs to put more Classics on the PS4 Store.



DonFerrari said: 

You are being disingenuous at best. PS3 removed BC, no backlash (removal of Other OS had more backlash than PS2 BC removal), on PS4 you can't play the PS1 classics that you bought on PS3 not much complaining. X1 added BC and didn't increase sales.

BS is a "luxury" amenity on the console.

If Fifa that is a yearly game with small improvements and prices plummeting months after release doesn't show massive buy from the older/second hand games, because people want what is new and shinier why would it be such a big and important thing to have BC?

Even MS numbers (that they offuscate a lot) on the BC doesn't show a very high usage in terms of hours per player per month. It was something like less than 4h/month/user, that isn't something much important.

Plus TLOU alone sold about 10M on PS4, if you get all other remasters it had much higher number.

You have a lot of emulators that are very easy to use and still remasters/remakes make a lot of success, much more than buying old games to play on new console for the same effect.

How exactly? Again I stressed a fair case study. PS3 cutting BC was met with a massive price cut of $100. How are you to determine the impact on sales? 

Neither PS4 or Xbox One launched with BC and when Xbox One got segmented support we were already 3 years into the generation where it was obviously not going to make a huge dent.

Going back to scenario ahead, the year is 2020 PS5 and Xbox Next just launched, one plays the last 7 years of games that you own and can be up for cheap, the other does not. You honestly think thats a scenario that Sony/Microsoft doesn't care to avoid? And fundamentally you've missed the point I stressed which is that whenever BC has made sense, it has been implemented. Only vastly different architecture, costly hardware based solutions or conflict is storage medium has made the big 3 cut BC. I don't see any of the above being an issue with PS4 > PS5 transitions. 

And on your statement "BC is a luxury", I don't think anyone is suggesting otherwise, it's still a no brainer.

Last edited by Otter - on 03 January 2019