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Forums - Sony Discussion - PS4 exclusives should get a 4K 60 with high resolution assets update next gen Update: Confirmed

twintail said:
DonFerrari said:

GOTY editions sell a small portion of what the original version sold, while the remakes/remasters sold on par with the originals (TLOU remaster even outsold TLOU original). So I don't think Sony will choose the option that makes less money unless they get cornered into it.

So you will just ignore that TloU released at the end of PS3s relevancy, got a enhanced port for a strong selling PS4 a year later which included the Left Behind DLC, and that PS3 games dont run on the PS4? The latter part especially is incredibly important.

In my comment I am seeing GOTY editions and remasters as one in the same thing. The difference, is that I doubt you see a remaster of something like God of War, which offers zero new content post its original launch. In this way a remaster seems superfluous if we assume PS5 will be running PS4 content and that patches will be made available for existing games. Unless of course said patch is a paid upgrade.

TLoU remaster is exactly an example of what I am talking about. The remaster is on PS4 is essentially a GOTY edition since it includes all the content. It is not just base TloU with players needing to pay for the Left Behind DLC on top of the game purchase.

If PS5 is going to play PS4 games then what exactly is the point of a remaster that offers nothing new besides a visual upgrade that might be offered for free in the first place? I am confident that TloU2 will probably get a remaster but that is if it gets story DLC. Then its re-release with all content will just be a PS5 only SKU and at least makes sense. But after UC4 I think ND might go the route of not doing story DLC and instead just doing a smaller sized game with story related to the main campaign. So a PS5 GOTY remaster that includes both the base game and the secondary game (something like UC4 and LL combined in one package).

Anyhow, so I dont disagree that it will happen, but I disagree that it will happen for games that just dont need it. a budget GoW re-release only on PS5? Yeah, maybe that works. PS Essentials/ hits label without the label attached. But what is the point?

Nope. You seem to be ignoring it yourself. Those reasons are what would make it more likely for Sony to launch remasters/ports of the higher selling games on PS5 instead of giving free BC and hoping to sell GOTY editions. It isn't even nearly the same effect in sales. If it was, Sony wouldn't be doing all the remasters and doing this route. They can do it because they are in a position of power and market leadership. If they needed to gain market favor them they could go the less profitable route with free BC.

SO I'll repeat myself. Sony doesn't have any incentive to get free-BC on PS5 (even more considering they saying that there is low use, coming from a company that put full BC in PS2 and PS3) when they profit much more from re-releases. So even if PS5 could get BC very easily they will rather make a very easily port, with less downgraded assets (already made for original game). The infamous patent for the easier upscalling is more likely to be used to make remasters cheapers to make than they just giving it away.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

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vivster said:
GOWTLOZ said:

PS5 will be hugely more powerful than PS4 Pro and 4K 30fps would be a minor improvement over the Pro. Anything below 4K 60fps is not worth considering as an upgrade.

Not so bold prediction: The PS5 will not be able to play every game in native 4k60 and people will still buy it in droves.

PS4 games at 4K 60 fps would be no problem.



DonFerrari said:
twintail said:

So you will just ignore that TloU released at the end of PS3s relevancy, got a enhanced port for a strong selling PS4 a year later which included the Left Behind DLC, and that PS3 games dont run on the PS4? The latter part especially is incredibly important.

In my comment I am seeing GOTY editions and remasters as one in the same thing. The difference, is that I doubt you see a remaster of something like God of War, which offers zero new content post its original launch. In this way a remaster seems superfluous if we assume PS5 will be running PS4 content and that patches will be made available for existing games. Unless of course said patch is a paid upgrade.

TLoU remaster is exactly an example of what I am talking about. The remaster is on PS4 is essentially a GOTY edition since it includes all the content. It is not just base TloU with players needing to pay for the Left Behind DLC on top of the game purchase.

If PS5 is going to play PS4 games then what exactly is the point of a remaster that offers nothing new besides a visual upgrade that might be offered for free in the first place? I am confident that TloU2 will probably get a remaster but that is if it gets story DLC. Then its re-release with all content will just be a PS5 only SKU and at least makes sense. But after UC4 I think ND might go the route of not doing story DLC and instead just doing a smaller sized game with story related to the main campaign. So a PS5 GOTY remaster that includes both the base game and the secondary game (something like UC4 and LL combined in one package).

Anyhow, so I dont disagree that it will happen, but I disagree that it will happen for games that just dont need it. a budget GoW re-release only on PS5? Yeah, maybe that works. PS Essentials/ hits label without the label attached. But what is the point?

Nope. You seem to be ignoring it yourself. Those reasons are what would make it more likely for Sony to launch remasters/ports of the higher selling games on PS5 instead of giving free BC and hoping to sell GOTY editions. It isn't even nearly the same effect in sales. If it was, Sony wouldn't be doing all the remasters and doing this route. They can do it because they are in a position of power and market leadership. If they needed to gain market favor them they could go the less profitable route with free BC.

SO I'll repeat myself. Sony doesn't have any incentive to get free-BC on PS5 (even more considering they saying that there is low use, coming from a company that put full BC in PS2 and PS3) when they profit much more from re-releases. So even if PS5 could get BC very easily they will rather make a very easily port, with less downgraded assets (already made for original game). The infamous patent for the easier upscalling is more likely to be used to make remasters cheapers to make than they just giving it away.

Sony aren't going to have a PS5 that is not compatible with PS4. It is absurd that you think in this current climate that they wouldn't. Perhaps, the patches to upgrade the games (beyond whatever the PS5 will naturally do, kinda of like PS4P boost mode) will come with a cost, but Sony aren't going to clamp down on what is essentially making them the bulk of their profits: digital content from games, subscriptions and micro-transactions of any game. PS4 BC on PS5 pretty much gifts Sony next gen. They know it. Even MS knows it hence their moves to bolster GamePass and their game studios base.  

As I said before, BC and remasters can coexist. One doesn't negate the other. 



DonFerrari said:

Nope. You seem to be ignoring it yourself. Those reasons are what would make it more likely for Sony to launch remasters/ports of the higher selling games on PS5 instead of giving free BC and hoping to sell GOTY editions. It isn't even nearly the same effect in sales. If it was, Sony wouldn't be doing all the remasters and doing this route. They can do it because they are in a position of power and market leadership. If they needed to gain market favor them they could go the less profitable route with free BC.

SO I'll repeat myself. Sony doesn't have any incentive to get free-BC on PS5 (even more considering they saying that there is low use, coming from a company that put full BC in PS2 and PS3) when they profit much more from re-releases. So even if PS5 could get BC very easily they will rather make a very easily port, with less downgraded assets (already made for original game). The infamous patent for the easier upscalling is more likely to be used to make remasters cheapers to make than they just giving it away.

There is not a chance on  earth that the PS5 doesnt have native BC with the PS4. Not a a chance at all.

It will be platform suicide by sony. Especially considering how big digital distribution has become now. How does sony explain t the 100M people that would have owned the PS4 that their PS4 games cant work on the PS5 all the while the next XB is running XB1 games.

Make no mistake. PS5 will support full native BC the very same way the PS2 supported "improved" BC with the PS1. We will see far fewer remasters next gen and mre "remakes".  The "remaster" will be a natural by product of just having a much more powerful X86 hardware (which the PS4 also is so by default that already means native support). If we are lucky we may et some patches for a few older titles adding in 4k textures and stuff. Highly unlikely though.



GOWTLOZ said:
vivster said:

Not so bold prediction: The PS5 will not be able to play every game in native 4k60 and people will still buy it in droves.

PS4 games at 4K 60 fps would be no problem.

The PS4 can't even play every game at 1080p60.



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twintail said:
DonFerrari said:

Nope. You seem to be ignoring it yourself. Those reasons are what would make it more likely for Sony to launch remasters/ports of the higher selling games on PS5 instead of giving free BC and hoping to sell GOTY editions. It isn't even nearly the same effect in sales. If it was, Sony wouldn't be doing all the remasters and doing this route. They can do it because they are in a position of power and market leadership. If they needed to gain market favor them they could go the less profitable route with free BC.

SO I'll repeat myself. Sony doesn't have any incentive to get free-BC on PS5 (even more considering they saying that there is low use, coming from a company that put full BC in PS2 and PS3) when they profit much more from re-releases. So even if PS5 could get BC very easily they will rather make a very easily port, with less downgraded assets (already made for original game). The infamous patent for the easier upscalling is more likely to be used to make remasters cheapers to make than they just giving it away.

Sony aren't going to have a PS5 that is not compatible with PS4. It is absurd that you think in this current climate that they wouldn't. Perhaps, the patches to upgrade the games (beyond whatever the PS5 will naturally do, kinda of like PS4P boost mode) will come with a cost, but Sony aren't going to clamp down on what is essentially making them the bulk of their profits: digital content from games, subscriptions and micro-transactions of any game. PS4 BC on PS5 pretty much gifts Sony next gen. They know it. Even MS knows it hence their moves to bolster GamePass and their game studios base.  

As I said before, BC and remasters can coexist. One doesn't negate the other. 

Sony certainly knows what is possible and what can be done, and it exactly seems like Sony isn't interested in doing it.

Intrinsic said:
DonFerrari said:

Nope. You seem to be ignoring it yourself. Those reasons are what would make it more likely for Sony to launch remasters/ports of the higher selling games on PS5 instead of giving free BC and hoping to sell GOTY editions. It isn't even nearly the same effect in sales. If it was, Sony wouldn't be doing all the remasters and doing this route. They can do it because they are in a position of power and market leadership. If they needed to gain market favor them they could go the less profitable route with free BC.

SO I'll repeat myself. Sony doesn't have any incentive to get free-BC on PS5 (even more considering they saying that there is low use, coming from a company that put full BC in PS2 and PS3) when they profit much more from re-releases. So even if PS5 could get BC very easily they will rather make a very easily port, with less downgraded assets (already made for original game). The infamous patent for the easier upscalling is more likely to be used to make remasters cheapers to make than they just giving it away.

There is not a chance on  earth that the PS5 doesnt have native BC with the PS4. Not a a chance at all.

It will be platform suicide by sony. Especially considering how big digital distribution has become now. How does sony explain t the 100M people that would have owned the PS4 that their PS4 games cant work on the PS5 all the while the next XB is running XB1 games.

Make no mistake. PS5 will support full native BC the very same way the PS2 supported "improved" BC with the PS1. We will see far fewer remasters next gen and mre "remakes".  The "remaster" will be a natural by product of just having a much more powerful X86 hardware (which the PS4 also is so by default that already means native support). If we are lucky we may et some patches for a few older titles adding in 4k textures and stuff. Highly unlikely though.

How would they explain it? They removed BC on PS3 with 0 backlash, didn't put BC on PS4 and had no hurdle, MS put BC on X1 and it didn't even move the needle.

You'll have to justify the extra profit Sony would do with BC or how much you can accertain it would lose without BC. Because all I see is you and others wanting they to put a feature for free that would remove revenue from double dipping.

Doesn't seem something as certain as you like to think.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

vivster said:

The PS4 can't even play every game at 1080p60.

Its a numbers thing. 

If 1.8TF can give you mostly 1080p@3ofps

Then 7.2TF can give you 4k@3fps of the same game using the same assets with the only bump being resolution. And this is being very generous because not everything scales up too.

So its safe to assume that a GPU with around 12TF-15TF can give you 4k@60fps of that same game with those same assets.

But this is the PS5 running games originally designed to run on the PS4 in 1080p@30fps. I expect actual PS5 games to be back at running at 4k@30fps.

DonFerrari said:

How would they explain it? They removed BC on PS3 with 0 backlash, didn't put BC on PS4 and had no hurdle, MS put BC on X1 and it didn't even move the needle.

You'll have to justify the extra profit Sony would do with BC or how much you can accertain it would lose without BC. Because all I see is you and others wanting they to put a feature for free that would remove revenue from double dipping.

Doesn't seem something as certain as you like to think.

No. Launch PS3s had BC. And even then it was harder to implement but they still did it. 

Going from PS3 to PS4 is not the same as going from PS4 to PS5. One reason being that now PS+ is mandatory for online play and two digital distribution is a lot bigger in the 8th gen than it was in the 7th and will be even bigger in the 9th. And you aren't lookin at the big picture. Which is also why MS was pushing so hard for cross platform MP. Ensuring platform continuity via BC is a great way to ensure that everyone that owns a PS4 and has bought any number of digital games is carried over to the PS5. If you tell them they cant play the games they have in the PS4 library in their PSN accounts on the PS5, so why cant they just buy an XB since it means they are really starting afresh anyways.

Take me for instance. I don't have a single physical game. If sony told me come the PS5 that I cant play any f these games that I have in my digital library on the PS5 but I can see XB2 playing XB1 games? I will never buy a sony platform again. simply because they have basically ensured all the games I bought over the last 7yrs has become vaporware. 

Another way to look at it, if the PS5 doesn't support BC it will be like google releasing android 10 with no support for any android apps whatsoever. 

Last edited by Intrinsic - on 03 January 2019

vivster said:
GOWTLOZ said:

PS4 games at 4K 60 fps would be no problem.

The PS4 can't even play every game at 1080p60.

PS4 exclusives are 1080p 30 fps on the base console and go upto checkerboard 4K 30 fps on Pro. We know Pro is bottled by its weak CPU and its lack of memory.

PS5 is supposedly going to have Ryzen CPU and a GPU 3 times more powerful in terms of teraflops, with a more modern architecture and with 16 GB of RAM atleast as Xbox One X already has 12 GB. The suggested specs should easily run PS4 Pro games at twice the resolution, as checkerboarding halves the resolution on one axis and twice the framerate, which is fairly easy since the GPU is hugely powerful and even PS4 Pro's weak CPU can run some exclusives at 1080p 60 fps. The 16 GB RAM will allow 4K textures. I'm certain PS5 will be capable of doing this if these are the specifications, but of course Sony needs to allow its developers to upgrade their games on PS5.



DonFerrari said: 

How would they explain it? They removed BC on PS3 with 0 backlash, didn't put BC on PS4 and had no hurdle, MS put BC on X1 and it didn't even move the needle.

You'll have to justify the extra profit Sony would do with BC or how much you can accertain it would lose without BC. Because all I see is you and others wanting they to put a feature for free that would remove revenue from double dipping.

Doesn't seem something as certain as you like to think.

We can't tangibly say how much it adds to a platforms appeal and there has never been a clean case study for us to use to determine whether it does helps sale a lot during launch periods. PS3 was $600 and had a price cut to coincide with the removal of BC, the Xbox One didn't receive BC until 3 years in. What we can say however is that Console's for which BC makes sense have always had it. 

Unless PS4 BC adds some notable cost to the PS5, history suggests that it will have it. 

Also I think some of you greatly overestimate the value of remasters for Platform holders like Microsoft/Nintendo/Sony, these are not primarily software companies. Many people who bought The Last of Us on PS4 had never played it on PS3, remaster sales of recent games will always give slightly misleading impressions since said games would have just continued to sell in their OG form (of course not necessarily as good). In the race to establish a 100m+ platform which sells equal amount of games each year, I don't think think they're gonna give up a potential edge over the competitor at launch just so they can sell 10m remasters across the following years.

We've seen with the PS3 and Xbox One how crucial it is not to mess a consoles launch. And if PS5 and Xbox Next are launching within 12months of each other and one of them has native BC and the other doesn't, that will be a huge talking point and probably one of the key distinguishing factors between them. Again there has never been a fair case to compare in the past.



Or Sony could just make the games BC and provide free 4k 60fps updates like MS does with some BC games on One X.