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Forums - Sony Discussion - PS4 exclusives should get a 4K 60 with high resolution assets update next gen Update: Confirmed

One thing that I would love to see next gen is getting rid of loading times for good



God bless You.

My Total Sales prediction for PS4 by the end of 2021: 110m+

When PS4 will hit 100m consoles sold: Before Christmas 2019

There were three ravens sat on a tree / They were as blacke as they might be / The one of them said to his mate, Where shall we our breakfast take?


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Intrinsic said:
DonFerrari said:

Sony games aren't heavy on mp much less gaas so their online may not benefit from bc.

And I have no problem accepting there is a good chance of BC or the goodwill they could get or even how much easier than ps3 bc it would be. But giving it as certain based on nothing is silly.

We have had Sony heads saying how BC was overtalked and underused as a reason they didn't put it on PS4 nor would add later. We had PS3 dropping BC without much issue.

Sony certainly could make PS5 BC capable and locking it with some service of PS+ or offering to easy port/crossgen to devs so they can either have cross sales as we had at the begining of this gen and even keeping username/save so people could migrate.

There is several options they could take that would benefit their partners more than just put free BC and no double dips.

Sony wasn't the only making remaster/remakes (and they selling a lot), they had a good bunch of 3rd parties doing the same.

Remakes and remasters are very different things.

Its why you see remakes of games from the PS2/PS1 era but instead remasters of games from the PS3. It will make zer financial sense makin remasters or remakes of PS4 games the PS5 and selling them. Especially when their direct rival is offering the same service free.

Sony downplayed BC this gen like any good PR team would d because they just couldnt get the PS4 to run PS3 games. That is not gin to be the case going from PS4 to PS5. As they are both X86 platforms. 

Native BC is pretty much a given based on that alone and based on the fact that its something MS will obviously d and sony simply cannot be selling something their rival offers for free. This doesn't stop devs from still supporting their PS4 games. And there are ways to do that. A dev can offer a 4k upgrade DLC and sell that for $10 for people that already have the game and want that while also main a greatest hits version of the game with the DLC built in and sell that full game at a reduced price for those wanting to get it for the first time. 

Get this though...... sony isnt in a bubble. There is MS. And we know they will do native BC. 

This has nothing to do with remakes. Those will still come and they are nothing compared to remasters. And then there is precedent..... the PS4 is the only playstation console to be released without any BC support whatsoever. So if anything' there is more historical backing for native BC than not.

I know remake and remasters are different. GoW 3 and TLOU were remasters, very fast and low cost that generated much more money than people would be buying the older game to play improved on free BC.

If they can sell 20+% of their consoles being Pro with even double dips when most games don't even get enhanced version, and when they get it is less than remaster would be, then why do you think it wouldn't give profit to sell "remaster" of the PS4 games.

Sony had no need to even talk about BC, and they made the decision to remove BC for everything on PS4 to have you rebuy, so they knew the expected impact both in opinion and bottomline from their experience on the other 3 gens, and it did payout. So what you and others have for "evidence" is more wishful thinking than hard evidence that would make it certain and proved that BC on PS5 is a thing even when the console haven't even leaked besides obnoxious rumors.

If you are selling it then it isn't free BC. Plus MS were doing XBL charged with only MP, put netflix behind paywall and even free games need XBL. Some of those they kept even when Sony didn't had it. If all consoles offered the same then you wouldn't need both in the market. Sony may follow suit because they think MS will do? Sure, but that isn't certain to any level.

twintail said:
DonFerrari said:

Yes I know the subs are for MP that mostly isn't from Sony. And we have seem crossplay also being just some complaining point but without any real impact. So there really isn't hard evidence to prove that without BC or crossplay among PS4-PS5 crew it would be a major down point to PS5.

It may be silly but people buy new HW to play new games.

There is nothing to suggest that having BC gives you continuity on userbase. PS3 had BC and no continuity, PS4 didn't have BC and had continuity on userbase.

On the PR, you asked for evidence. We have Sony saying (and they didn't need at all), we have MS numbers showing BC wasn't much used.

On Sony we have from top of mind and making big sales Uncharted Collection, GoW3, TLOU on PS4 (Sly Coopers, Ratchet and Clank, Jak and Daxter on PS3), Crash N'Sane and Spyro on third parties, plus Sega, Atari, and some other collections, FF VII and FF IX enhanced versions, FF X/X-2, FF XII. This just from memory. And probably higher than all of those GTA V.

Even Nintendo and MS have made a lot of remasters, it isn't out of nowhere that people were saying this was the gen of remaster or joking on Sony doing only remasters.

Crossplay  between PS4/ X1 barely has any big game/ publisher support. In fact, there are barely any games at all. So of course there would be no real impact in this department.  So the point still stands, offering PSN PS4 support will prevent the possibility of users jumping from PS4 to the next XB.

Yeah, about as silly as ppl wanting their digital libraries to exist perpetually like every other online service in existence. 

You constantly make these singular points looking at a certain aspect without even contemplating the wider context. PS3 was incredibly overpriced and it suffered for a few years before that could actually be corrected, BC or not. PS4 came out after a very long previous gen, was priced better than the competition, and had an unveiling that made it the anti-PS3. Shuhei even commented about a year after launch that the sales were surprising and that even non-PS3 owners were buying a PS4. Without anything to keep 360 users tied to the Xbox experience, it was easy for users to move over to new hardware. 

Well I didn't ask for evidence to that but fair enough. It could be true. Either way, the PS4 BC we are talking about is not the same as the PS3 BC. Publishers weren't seeing a large sum of their profits from digital on PS3 like they do not on PS4. Live service games hadn't really taken off on PS3 like they have on PS4. The situation is not the same, the angle is not the same. Sony wasn't making the bulk of their profit off digital sales or services on the PS3. The situations are different. 

So some publishers have released a few games each? And I am not seeing a lot of sales giants in that list you provided. Nonetheless, I see no problems with remasters continuing. Them being healthy doesn't detract from continued engagement with existing consumers going forward. It is just an alternate product.

Anyhow, Sony has been reporting that their network and game services is their most profitable department for a few quarters now. The new PS head is a networks guy. They aren't going to take the risk that comes with resetting their network/ service offerings. They are making so much money off it on PS4 that continuing it without any roadblocks is only the most natural business decision to be made here. And the reality is that announcing as such secures their position next gen. 

But if you think Sony is going to risk resetting their network offerings for existing consumers based on outdated contexts, then you are free to do so. Maybe you will ultimately be right. I doubt it though. But we will see. 

How wasn't anything tying Xbox users to the Xbox environment when they had the XBL and achievements there plus the friendlist and all? You are just trying to make BC more important and relevant than it is even if historical data shows it wasn't much used in any console.

They won't reset their network because of lack of BC. And resetting gens haven't been a problem for they to grow on PS2 against PS1 and PS4 against PS3. Plus resetting had no bearing in PS3, they had BC and that didn't help at all.

There are many, many, many other factors more relevant to a console than BC, that thinking the lack of free BC is going to make Sony lose to Xbox is funny.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

0D0 said:
One thing that I would love to see next gen is getting rid of loading times for good

Basically impossible considering the size of the games, and speed of memory and whatnot.

The best one can hope for is that the initial load doesn't take forever and that after that devs use good techs to not show loading to you. Like TLOU that after a lengthy initial load as long as you didn't jump cutscenes you wouldn't see any load, or the difference on the GTs (I think I saw the difference between 5/6 to S) where at first all retry of a course would take a lot to load (like fighting games grrrrrrrr) but on GTS the retry is very fast.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

0D0 said:
One thing that I would love to see next gen is getting rid of loading times for good

Unfortunately this is impossible.

Its not just a size issue but the nature of game data.

A game may need to load say 4GB of data data into RAM. Some may be mistaken to think "hey we have NVME SSDs now capable of 2GB/s transfer speeds so let them just throw one of those in there", but even if that were possible it won't make much of a difference. Reason being that that 4GB is made up of thousands of really small chunks of assets. Access times end up being the limiting factor.

Eg. a game takes

40sec to load with a 150MB/s HDD.

20sec with a 550MB/s SSD

17sec with a 2000MB/s NVME SSD.

Best way to combat load times in games is via really smart data streaming... but not all games can work like that.  



Intrinsic said:
0D0 said:
One thing that I would love to see next gen is getting rid of loading times for good

Unfortunately this is impossible.

Its not just a size issue but the nature of game data.

A game may need to load say 4GB of data data into RAM. Some may be mistaken to think "hey we have NVME SSDs now capable of 2GB/s transfer speeds so let them just throw one of those in there", but even if that were possible it won't make much of a difference. Reason being that that 4GB is made up of thousands of really small chunks of assets. Access times end up being the limiting factor.

Eg. a game takes

40sec to load with a 150MB/s HDD.

20sec with a 550MB/s SSD

17sec with a 2000MB/s NVME SSD.

Best way to combat load times in games is via really smart data streaming... but not all games can work like that.  

Exactly.

But loading a game in 17s vs 40s would already be a great improvement and even unoticeable depending on how they fill the screen.

Even 1 min to load a game I think is quite good when we have some games that take/took 5 to 10 min.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

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It would be so funny if Sony made a Nintendo and said ”fuck the power” and delivered something left field that is inovative.



Spindel said:
It would be so funny if Sony made a Nintendo and said ”fuck the power” and delivered something left field that is inovative.

It wouldn't, it would make me very sad.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

Spindel said:
It would be so funny if Sony made a Nintendo and said ”fuck the power” and delivered something left field that is inovative.

I have never quite understood this thing.

But indulge me. What exactly is innovative about making a handheld that allows you connect it to a TV? 

Are laptops innovative too being that they allow us connect them to TVs too?

People throw that word around a lot........



Intrinsic said:
Spindel said:
It would be so funny if Sony made a Nintendo and said ”fuck the power” and delivered something left field that is inovative.

I have never quite understood this thing.

But indulge me. What exactly is innovative about making a handheld that allows you connect it to a TV? 

Are laptops innovative too being that they allow us connect them to TVs too?

People throw that word around a lot........

yes

the so called hybrid innovation is nonsense



God bless You.

My Total Sales prediction for PS4 by the end of 2021: 110m+

When PS4 will hit 100m consoles sold: Before Christmas 2019

There were three ravens sat on a tree / They were as blacke as they might be / The one of them said to his mate, Where shall we our breakfast take?


Intrinsic said:
Spindel said:
It would be so funny if Sony made a Nintendo and said ”fuck the power” and delivered something left field that is inovative.

I have never quite understood this thing.

But indulge me. What exactly is innovative about making a handheld that allows you connect it to a TV? 

Are laptops innovative too being that they allow us connect them to TVs too?

People throw that word around a lot........

PSP and PSVita, also could do hook to TV and streaming from console to HH.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."