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Forums - Politics Discussion - How Democrats Went from Opposing Illegal Immigration to Supporting it.

Not surprised, Democrats have changed completely just in my lifetime, almost doing a 180 in many respects. The party that was once completely anti-racism, anti-war, pro working class, pro free speech, free love, etc. has mutated into this fear mongering, xenophobic (Russia), identity politic obsessed, divisive, pro-censorship, puritanical, and hateful group of people just in the last 15 or so years. I know I'm generalizing but those are the people that dominate the political conversation within the party at least.

Kucinich is about the last one I somewhat respect.



 

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DarthMetalliCube said:

Not surprised, Democrats have changed completely just in my lifetime, almost doing a 180 in many respects. The party that was once completely anti-racism, anti-war, pro working class, pro free speech, free love, etc. has mutated into this fear mongering, xenophobic (Russia), identity politic obsessed, divisive, pro-censorship, puritanical, and hateful group of people just in the last 15 or so years. I know I'm generalizing but those are the people that dominate the political conversation within the party at least.

Kucinich is about the last one I somewhat respect.

And that Kids is what we called progression. Its hardly the democrats who changed into that its the bigger part of people in their 20's and 30's in western society who decided this is the way forward. The democrats and other political parties just cathered to this idea of progression, luckily it mostly backfired for now. 



Please excuse my (probally) poor grammar

the-pi-guy said:
Mr Puggsly said:

Are you suggesting democrats don't want to deal with voter fraud because its a waste of resources? Its refreshing to see them care about spending. Any who, I'm glad we moved the discussion from it not being a thing to not a serious thing.

Again, I never said it didn't exist.  I said it was a minuscule number.  

Democrats don't like to waste resources.

Mr Puggsly said:

Right, we don't disagree on the voter ID thing. But the left likes to claim even getting a state ID is too much of an obstacle for some people. They will always fight voter IDs.

I think it's strange that a lot of rightists who tend to think that government usually can't do things right, have immense trust for the government to do things right when it comes to voter id laws.  

Because it can be a challenge for people:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/courts_law/getting-a-photo-id-so-you-can-vote-is-easy-unless-youre-poor-black-latino-or-elderly/2016/05/23/8d5474ec-20f0-11e6-8690-f14ca9de2972_story.html?utm_term=.58226ceab9af

"For Settles to get one of those, his name has to match his birth certificate — and it doesn’t. In 1964, when he was 14, his mother married and changed his last name. After Texas passed a new voter-ID law, officials told Settles he had to show them his name-change certificate from 1964 to qualify for a new identification card to vote.

So with the help of several lawyers, Settles tried to find it, searching records in courthouses in the D.C. area, where he grew up. But they could not find it. To obtain a new document changing his name to the one he has used for 51 years, Settles has to go to court, a process that would cost him more than $250 — more than he is willing to pay.

“It has been a bureaucratic nightmare,” said Settles, 65, a retired engineer. “The intent of this law is to suppress the vote. I feel like I am not wanted in this state.”"

Mr Puggsly said:

I was using the criminal voting thing as an example of dems looking wherever they can for more support. I guess they find that easier than appealing to the working class like they used to. And again, they waste more time attacking people that support republicans as opposed to trying to win their support.

How are Dem's not appealing to the working class?  

A lot of leftists hate on Democrats for not doing anything for black people, and only doing things for white Americans.  A lot of rightists hate on Democrats for not helping white Americans, and think they pander to black people.  They just can't win.  

Criminals aren't a big enough demographic to help them.  Your belief doesn't even make sense.  

I guess its semantics really. The democrats don't like to waste resources, they just like to increase spending with vast amounts of tax payer money even if they get poor results. I hope government doesn't like being inefficient with spending per se, they just are and incredibly so.

You're actually making a point for people for my side. Showing me an example of government struggling at voter IDs certainly doesn't make me feel good about government controlling much of anything outside what makes absolute sense. Unfortunately, something like voter IDs is their jurisdiction.

If a lot of people hate the left for doing little for blacks, a group that really needs to help itself, then they should stop supporting democrats. The whites are getting annoyed with the left democrats treat whites as an obstacle. White people are a demo that doesn't just give its vote to democrats like other groups, so dems have made terrible excuses why they don't as great with whites.

To appeal to the working class you don't just talk about raising taxes and free stuff that will be paid for by the working class. Trump a lot better than expected because people genuinely felt Trump was gonna do better at creating jobs, lowering taxes, get a grip on immigration and doing something about high healthcare costs. Frankly, the only thing I really see democrats running on this year is healthcare because that's where there hasn't been any great improvements on.

Democrats want criminals to vote because that it will inevitably boost their numbers. Not sure if that's something that the working class cares about, but getting power is something democrats care about.

Last edited by Mr Puggsly - on 03 November 2018

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DarthMetalliCube said:

Not surprised, Democrats have changed completely just in my lifetime, almost doing a 180 in many respects. The party that was once completely anti-racism, anti-war, pro working class, pro free speech, free love, etc. has mutated into this fear mongering, xenophobic (Russia), identity politic obsessed, divisive, pro-censorship, puritanical, and hateful group of people just in the last 15 or so years. I know I'm generalizing but those are the people that dominate the political conversation within the party at least.

Kucinich is about the last one I somewhat respect.

Even in 2008 the democrats were perceived as a very different and moderate party. There is a reason you can find plenty of clips of Bill Clinton and Obama spouting what are now deemed republican views.



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Qwark said:
DarthMetalliCube said:

Not surprised, Democrats have changed completely just in my lifetime, almost doing a 180 in many respects. The party that was once completely anti-racism, anti-war, pro working class, pro free speech, free love, etc. has mutated into this fear mongering, xenophobic (Russia), identity politic obsessed, divisive, pro-censorship, puritanical, and hateful group of people just in the last 15 or so years. I know I'm generalizing but those are the people that dominate the political conversation within the party at least.

Kucinich is about the last one I somewhat respect.

And that Kids is what we called progression. Its hardly the democrats who changed into that its the bigger part of people in their 20's and 30's in western society who decided this is the way forward. The democrats and other political parties just cathered to this idea of progression, luckily it mostly backfired for now. 

A lot of their "progressive" ideology steps on the foot of a lot of people. They also love to play if you're not with me you're a [insert derogatory label]. That's equally as divisive as some of Trump's dumb rhetoric. Some very vocal democrats cater to SJWs who like to play virtue signaling.



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DarthMetalliCube said:

Not surprised, Democrats have changed completely just in my lifetime, almost doing a 180 in many respects. The party that was once completely anti-racism, anti-war, pro working class, pro free speech, free love, etc. has mutated into this fear mongering, xenophobic (Russia), identity politic obsessed, divisive, pro-censorship, puritanical, and hateful group of people just in the last 15 or so years. I know I'm generalizing but those are the people that dominate the political conversation within the party at least.

Kucinich is about the last one I somewhat respect.

How is not liking Russia xenophobic? If Russians want to start moving to the us no one on the left cares but it's not xenophobic to think they're a shitty borderline fascist country where gay people are forced to live in hiding and journalist have a tendency to disappear. The fact that their boots are all over Twitter is just 1 of many reasons to not like the government, policies or political leaders of Russia 



I consider myself to be democratic, at least more than I consider myself to be republican, and I in no way support illegal immigration. Immigrants need to go through the proper procedures in order to become legal citizens, or they need to leave the country.



Yerm said:
I consider myself to be democratic, at least more than I consider myself to be republican, and I in no way support illegal immigration. Immigrants need to go through the proper procedures in order to become legal citizens, or they need to leave the country.

I think that's how most Democrats feel, problem is the process for both legal immigration and asylum have gotten longer under trump. Illegal immigration is bad but if the wait period can be a year or longer what do people expect to happen when people are trying to escape violence or poverty



Mr Puggsly said:
vivster said:

Illegal immigrants can vote?

Immigrants when/if they can vote, or the next generation tend to vote democrat. It also encourages people to vote democrat because it creates fear about throwing out illegals who have settled into the country.

There are certainly scenarios where illegals immigrants have voted illegally and they support democrats. That's is why there has been debate about voter IDs. Some cities are actually allowing illegals to vote in local elections, which means they're shaping communities in such a way only citizens should but its ignored because they support left wing causes.

Estimates say there are about 20 million illegals in the country, that's more people than most countries even have. Democrats don't much care though because its their base and want them treated the same as citizens. Most illegals are latin and helps them with that demo. Basically the way we handle immigration is antithetical to every other developed country.

So what you are saying is that the statement from the OP is incorrect, because it should refer to legal immigrant or children born in the US that has the right to vote? So why is illegal immigration an issue here at all? 

 

I completely agree about voter ID being a requirement and every citizen should be in the voter rolls, you shouldn't have to register in order to be elgible to vote. But it would also be interesting to get some facts behind your statement about illegal immigrants being granted right to vote in local election. I'm not saying it's incorrect, just where that information comes from.



collint0101 said:
Yerm said:
I consider myself to be democratic, at least more than I consider myself to be republican, and I in no way support illegal immigration. Immigrants need to go through the proper procedures in order to become legal citizens, or they need to leave the country.

I think that's how most Democrats feel, problem is the process for both legal immigration and asylum have gotten longer under trump. Illegal immigration is bad but if the wait period can be a year or longer what do people expect to happen when people are trying to escape violence or poverty

The thing is, you completely ignore that there are other families from different countries aside of those from South America that have applied for such. Not sure about asylum seekers but there is a quota for immigrant visas. That's one of the things that pushed the processing of our immigrant visa application to 10 years. Not to mention the processing for these can bounce from a different application year to another. At one point, Our application was around Oct 2007. We got called for an interview around 2009 IIRC. From that point, we were held off because of changes in the document requirements. We tried to accomplish them but the immigrant processing date changed to something in 2005. So what that means is that there are still others who have applied at an earlier date and have not been fully processed.

Now regarding the case of the march to the border that's currently happening. It's going to be a fucking nightmare for these guys. You can't expect to just get ahead of those who are already lined up. That's what the general public should know. It's not that easy to control it but you should NOT open the gates just because of that.

I mean Trump does love to exaggerate but let's say for example that there is a small percentage of asylum seekers who are allowed to go through who are actually troublemakers. It adds more risk to the citizens inside the country.

One of the best tragic examples of uncontrolled immigration is Sweden. They let a lot of people in. There were not enough proper program for the migrants to transition. They don't have enough jobs. They don't have proper housing. A lot of the migrants were out on the streets. I had a friend there who was mugged by a migrant. He had to move to a different place because of how dangerous his old town became. Now, with the tone of the democrats, they want to do the same thing. Just let people in without due process expecting a Hail Mary solution to get these migrants stable.

It's easy for people to point fingers and demonize other people but when it comes down to it, it really is not that simple. For my case, I had extensive exposure to the English language(even though I still don't speak it flawlessly) and the American culture. It was easier for me to transition. However that is not to say I did not encounter problems adjusting. For those who did not have the blessing I had, it's going to be 10 times harder for them to adjust. It's not going to be any easier psychologically once they're inside. It's a whole different battle. Once that honeymoon phase is over, you'll see that your expectations can be far from how you expected them to be.

Last edited by iron_megalith - on 04 November 2018