By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Politics Discussion - How Democrats Went from Opposing Illegal Immigration to Supporting it.

Mr Puggsly on 31 October 2018
Machiavellian said:
the-pi-guy said:

Yes. Where is the proof that millions of voters are voting fraudulently?  Every study into the matter has shown the numbers are on the scale of a few dozen out of 200 million.  

 

Where is the evidence that Democrats are benefitting from it?  Out of the few occurrences of voter fraud in 2016, most of them voted for Republicans .

 

I have no problem with voter ID laws.  But why is it that so much of the time, they get followed by making it harder for minorities to vote?  

Democrats giving criminals voting rights is a vastly  different issue.  

The thing is there never is really any need these days for Proof.  As long as people feel this is happening then politicians will take advantage of those perception or create those perceptions.  This is the reason why we are in this thread today because of feelings.  I feel this is happening or I heard from someone, Youtube, tweet, political rally or statement.

When you really think about it you see how the current Republicans absolutely love this caravan of people coming to the US.  Nothing plays better for them then to make statements it's the Dems funding them.  Yep, the Dems is funding a caravan of people to illegal come into the US and somehow find a way to vote during elections.  It definitely plays to the fears of their base very well even if there isn't a shred of proof to it.  If that scenario doesn't work then they will proclaim they are trying to get here birth some babies and then those kids can vote Democrat in 18 years.

Since the popular vote doesn't matter, you really have to think about how this really plays out.

The debate isn't really whether or not its happening. Most agree its happening, but argue just not at a significant level.

Oh, I agree the republicans are benefitting from the caravan. It also puts the democrats in a weird position because they seem to be approving of it or ignoring it because they know independent voters generally are not happy about it. I'm not arguing the people on the caravan will vote, but it supports the narrative illegal immigration into this country is a mess.

The popular vote simply doesn't matter when voting for a president. Because we have a system that gives all states a say, but it still gives large states the most power. People ignore in the electoral college the democrats essentially start with the support of states like California, New York and numerous other states which is a lot of points in the electoral college. While republicans actually have to appeal to the working class if they hope to win the electoral college. Obama ran as a moderate and dominated. Hillary ran as left wing hack and got crushed in the electoral college.

However in local elections via the popular vote people can still vote for mayors, governors, senators, house representatives and other appointments that shape sates and the country. People actually want illegals voting in local elections and dems have been vocal about that. 



Recently Completed: 
River City: Rival Showdown for 3DS (3/5) - River City: Tokyo Rumble for 3DS (4/5) - Zelda: BotW for Wii U (5/5) - Zelda: BotW for Switch (5/5) - Zelda: Link's Awakening for Switch (4/5) - Rage 2 for X1X (4/5) - Rage for 360 (3/5) - Streets of Rage 4 for X1/PC (4/5) - Gears 5 for X1X (5/5) - Mortal Kombat 11 for X1X (5/5) - Doom 64 for N64 (emulator) (3/5) - Crackdown 3 for X1S/X1X (4/5) - Infinity Blade III - for iPad 4 (3/5) - Infinity Blade II - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Infinity Blade - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Wolfenstein: The Old Blood for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Origins for X1 (3/5) - Uncharted: Lost Legacy for PS4 (4/5) - EA UFC 3 for X1 (4/5) - Doom for X1 (4/5) - Titanfall 2 for X1 (4/5) - Super Mario 3D World for Wii U (4/5) - South Park: The Stick of Truth for X1 BC (4/5) - Call of Duty: WWII for X1 (4/5) -Wolfenstein II for X1 - (4/5) - Dead or Alive: Dimensions for 3DS (4/5) - Marvel vs Capcom: Infinite for X1 (3/5) - Halo Wars 2 for X1/PC (4/5) - Halo Wars: DE for X1 (4/5) - Tekken 7 for X1 (4/5) - Injustice 2 for X1 (4/5) - Yakuza 5 for PS3 (3/5) - Battlefield 1 (Campaign) for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Syndicate for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: MW Remastered for X1 (4/5) - Donkey Kong Country Returns for 3DS (4/5) - Forza Horizon 3 for X1 (5/5)

Around the Network
Mr Puggsly on 31 October 2018
sundin13 said:
Mr Puggsly said:

Democrats wanting to give criminals voting rights is because they know criminals are among their base. They just don't want to admit their true intentions.

I personally find wanting to give citizens the right to vote because they might vote for you a lot less egregious than wanting to prevent citizens from voting because they might vote against you...

Well democrats aren't jumping on this issue because they feel its an injustice. Its because they know it will help them get power. That's where it becomes egregious.



Recently Completed: 
River City: Rival Showdown for 3DS (3/5) - River City: Tokyo Rumble for 3DS (4/5) - Zelda: BotW for Wii U (5/5) - Zelda: BotW for Switch (5/5) - Zelda: Link's Awakening for Switch (4/5) - Rage 2 for X1X (4/5) - Rage for 360 (3/5) - Streets of Rage 4 for X1/PC (4/5) - Gears 5 for X1X (5/5) - Mortal Kombat 11 for X1X (5/5) - Doom 64 for N64 (emulator) (3/5) - Crackdown 3 for X1S/X1X (4/5) - Infinity Blade III - for iPad 4 (3/5) - Infinity Blade II - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Infinity Blade - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Wolfenstein: The Old Blood for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Origins for X1 (3/5) - Uncharted: Lost Legacy for PS4 (4/5) - EA UFC 3 for X1 (4/5) - Doom for X1 (4/5) - Titanfall 2 for X1 (4/5) - Super Mario 3D World for Wii U (4/5) - South Park: The Stick of Truth for X1 BC (4/5) - Call of Duty: WWII for X1 (4/5) -Wolfenstein II for X1 - (4/5) - Dead or Alive: Dimensions for 3DS (4/5) - Marvel vs Capcom: Infinite for X1 (3/5) - Halo Wars 2 for X1/PC (4/5) - Halo Wars: DE for X1 (4/5) - Tekken 7 for X1 (4/5) - Injustice 2 for X1 (4/5) - Yakuza 5 for PS3 (3/5) - Battlefield 1 (Campaign) for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Syndicate for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: MW Remastered for X1 (4/5) - Donkey Kong Country Returns for 3DS (4/5) - Forza Horizon 3 for X1 (5/5)

sundin13 on 31 October 2018
Mr Puggsly said:
sundin13 said:

I personally find wanting to give citizens the right to vote because they might vote for you a lot less egregious than wanting to prevent citizens from voting because they might vote against you...

Well democrats aren't jumping on this issue because they feel its an injustice. Its because they know it will help them get power. That's where it becomes egregious.

But why? Why is helping people and restoring rights to them egregious?That is like saying "This person is horrible because they gave to charity because of tax breaks". They still gave to charity and helped people, I don't really see why I should care what their reasoning is, especially when it is based solely on an assumption...

Especially when, by that logic, Republicans are just removing rights from people because they know it will help them get power.



Nighthawk117 on 31 October 2018
Mr Puggsly said:
vivster said:

As far as I know a lot of things in the US are antithetical to what happens in other developed countries. Democracy for example.

I'll say this and its on topic, I respect Angela Merkel. She must realize her stance on immigration was terrible and hurt your country.

Ah-hah...The truth comes out....Vivster lives in ex-Nazi Germany.  Interesting.



Nighthawk117 on 31 October 2018
vivster said:
Majin-Tenshinhan said:

No, the statement is that they bring in illegal immigrants who will then vote for them.

Illegal immigrants can vote?

Initially, NO.  Once they obtain a driver's license, then YES.  It's that fucking easy to vote here.



Around the Network
Mr Puggsly on 31 October 2018
sundin13 said:
Mr Puggsly said:

Well democrats aren't jumping on this issue because they feel its an injustice. Its because they know it will help them get power. That's where it becomes egregious.

But why? Why is helping people and restoring rights to them egregious?That is like saying "This person is horrible because they gave to charity because of tax breaks". They still gave to charity and helped people, I don't really see why I should care what their reasoning is, especially when it is based solely on an assumption...

Especially when, by that logic, Republicans are just removing rights from people because they know it will help them get power.

I don't think giving to charity is play to keep a party in power.

I don't think taking voting rights from criminals was a move to keep the republicans in power. Democrats also hate the electoral college because it keeps them from power, but it was never designed to keep democrats from power.



Recently Completed: 
River City: Rival Showdown for 3DS (3/5) - River City: Tokyo Rumble for 3DS (4/5) - Zelda: BotW for Wii U (5/5) - Zelda: BotW for Switch (5/5) - Zelda: Link's Awakening for Switch (4/5) - Rage 2 for X1X (4/5) - Rage for 360 (3/5) - Streets of Rage 4 for X1/PC (4/5) - Gears 5 for X1X (5/5) - Mortal Kombat 11 for X1X (5/5) - Doom 64 for N64 (emulator) (3/5) - Crackdown 3 for X1S/X1X (4/5) - Infinity Blade III - for iPad 4 (3/5) - Infinity Blade II - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Infinity Blade - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Wolfenstein: The Old Blood for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Origins for X1 (3/5) - Uncharted: Lost Legacy for PS4 (4/5) - EA UFC 3 for X1 (4/5) - Doom for X1 (4/5) - Titanfall 2 for X1 (4/5) - Super Mario 3D World for Wii U (4/5) - South Park: The Stick of Truth for X1 BC (4/5) - Call of Duty: WWII for X1 (4/5) -Wolfenstein II for X1 - (4/5) - Dead or Alive: Dimensions for 3DS (4/5) - Marvel vs Capcom: Infinite for X1 (3/5) - Halo Wars 2 for X1/PC (4/5) - Halo Wars: DE for X1 (4/5) - Tekken 7 for X1 (4/5) - Injustice 2 for X1 (4/5) - Yakuza 5 for PS3 (3/5) - Battlefield 1 (Campaign) for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Syndicate for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: MW Remastered for X1 (4/5) - Donkey Kong Country Returns for 3DS (4/5) - Forza Horizon 3 for X1 (5/5)

Mr Puggsly on 31 October 2018
the-pi-guy said:
Mr Puggsly said:

Just doing news searches on the topic show me its likely over a dozen and its unlikely they catch everyone doing it. Not really look to debate it, lets just agree it happens.

Pretty much anything that isn't against the laws of physics happens.  So it's pointless.  There's absolutely no evidence that it's a widespread issue.  

https://www.pbs.org/weta/washingtonweek/blog-post/numbers-voter-fraud

Mr Puggsly said:

Every time I see a voter fraud story it tends to be for left leaning support. Not sure how I'm missing all this republican support in the news. If true, democrats should make that known. But then democrats would have to admit it exist.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/12/01/0-000002-percent-of-all-the-ballots-cast-in-the-2016-election-were-fraudulent/?utm_term=.6e6052e3aaf0

In 2016, there were 4 people arrested for voter fraud.  None of them voted for Democrats.  

Of course, Democrats admit voter fraud happens. If you think they don't, you're being lied to.  The argument that Democrats make is that it's so incredibly rare that fixing the problem costs more than having it go.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHFOwlMCdto

Mr Puggsly said:

Voter IDs get attacked as voter suppression. But I noticed recently some states with voter IDs have the highest voter turn outs in the country. I really don't buy the argument that it hurts minorities, unless you're an illegal minority I guess.

 

Voter ID Laws's aren't suppression, the problem is ensuring that those ID's are available to everyone citizen who should have the right to vote.  

Mr Puggsly said:

Democrats wanting to give criminals voting rights is because they know criminals are among their base. They just don't want to admit their true intentions.

I didn't deny that Democrats wanted to give criminals voting rights, what I said is it has nothing to do with voter fraud.  

Democrats want to give criminals voting rights, because they are citizens and should be allowed to participate.  

Are you suggesting democrats don't want to deal with voter fraud because its a waste of resources? Its refreshing to see them care about spending. Any who, I'm glad we moved the discussion from it not being a thing to not a serious thing.

Right, we don't disagree on the voter ID thing. But the left likes to claim even getting a state ID is too much of an obstacle for some people. They will always fight voter IDs.

I was using the criminal voting thing as an example of dems looking wherever they can for more support. I guess they find that easier than appealing to the working class like they used to. And again, they waste more time attacking people that support republicans as opposed to trying to win their support.



Recently Completed: 
River City: Rival Showdown for 3DS (3/5) - River City: Tokyo Rumble for 3DS (4/5) - Zelda: BotW for Wii U (5/5) - Zelda: BotW for Switch (5/5) - Zelda: Link's Awakening for Switch (4/5) - Rage 2 for X1X (4/5) - Rage for 360 (3/5) - Streets of Rage 4 for X1/PC (4/5) - Gears 5 for X1X (5/5) - Mortal Kombat 11 for X1X (5/5) - Doom 64 for N64 (emulator) (3/5) - Crackdown 3 for X1S/X1X (4/5) - Infinity Blade III - for iPad 4 (3/5) - Infinity Blade II - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Infinity Blade - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Wolfenstein: The Old Blood for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Origins for X1 (3/5) - Uncharted: Lost Legacy for PS4 (4/5) - EA UFC 3 for X1 (4/5) - Doom for X1 (4/5) - Titanfall 2 for X1 (4/5) - Super Mario 3D World for Wii U (4/5) - South Park: The Stick of Truth for X1 BC (4/5) - Call of Duty: WWII for X1 (4/5) -Wolfenstein II for X1 - (4/5) - Dead or Alive: Dimensions for 3DS (4/5) - Marvel vs Capcom: Infinite for X1 (3/5) - Halo Wars 2 for X1/PC (4/5) - Halo Wars: DE for X1 (4/5) - Tekken 7 for X1 (4/5) - Injustice 2 for X1 (4/5) - Yakuza 5 for PS3 (3/5) - Battlefield 1 (Campaign) for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Syndicate for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: MW Remastered for X1 (4/5) - Donkey Kong Country Returns for 3DS (4/5) - Forza Horizon 3 for X1 (5/5)

sundin13 on 31 October 2018
Mr Puggsly said:
sundin13 said:

But why? Why is helping people and restoring rights to them egregious?That is like saying "This person is horrible because they gave to charity because of tax breaks". They still gave to charity and helped people, I don't really see why I should care what their reasoning is, especially when it is based solely on an assumption...

Especially when, by that logic, Republicans are just removing rights from people because they know it will help them get power.

I don't think giving to charity is play to keep a party in power.

I don't think taking voting rights from criminals was a move to keep the republicans in power.

You seem to misunderstand metaphors. My point was that attacking someone for doing a good thing for a selfish reason is fairly silly, especially when you are comparing it to doing a bad thing for a selfish reason. Either way, you have Democrats supporting the restoration of possibly the most important right within a democracy to a large group of taxpaying individuals whose rights should be better represented within our government.

And once again, all of the evidence to support these assertions of motive seems to boil down to "I think" or "I don't think", which does little to actual support a discussion.



ResilientFighter on 31 October 2018

illegals do not make even .1% of the votes in this country and those that do that get caught anyway. Republicans need to quit this BS while they yell fake news daily



RJ_Sizzle on 31 October 2018

Trash PragerU video. This showed up in my recommendations on Youtube. These people have no shame.