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Forums - Politics Discussion - How Democrats Went from Opposing Illegal Immigration to Supporting it.

CosmicSex said:
Democrats don't support illegal immigration. They support law. They support following it. Trump doesn't really think we are under attack by them. He only thinks that Republicans are so stupid that they have already been groomed to react to certain dog whistles and free mongering. Thats why he refers to these poor people as invaders. They are 'coming to get you'. He sent more troops down to the border than people actually there. And most people don't realize that they can't be used to attack these poor people because of strict guidelines. They are just for show to create the illusion of a real threat.

Here is the reason why Trump has brought this subject up now.  It really doesn't matter if he can do it or not, as you stated its a dog whistle.

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2018/10/23/pew-19-percent-democrats-illegal-immigration-very-big-problem/



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the-pi-guy said:
Mr Puggsly said:

Your first sentence wants proof, your second suggest it does happen but not a significant problem.

Either way, voter fraud seems to be an issue that benefits the left most often. We also see democrats genuinely trying to give illegals and criminals voting rights. It just seems the dems are party vying for power. Maybe I'm wrong but I feel like dems did better when they appealed to working class and didn't treat white people as an obstacle.

Yes. Where is the proof that millions of voters are voting fraudulently?  Every study into the matter has shown the numbers are on the scale of a few dozen out of 200 million.  

Where is the evidence that Democrats are benefitting from it?  Out of the few occurrences of voter fraud in 2016, most of them voted for Republicans .

I have no problem with voter ID laws.  But why is it that so much of the time, they get followed by making it harder for minorities to vote?  

Democrats giving criminals voting rights is a vastly  different issue.  

Just doing news searches on the topic show me its likely over a dozen and its unlikely they catch everyone doing it. Not really look to debate it, lets just agree it happens.

Every time I see a voter fraud story it tends to be for left leaning support. Not sure how I'm missing all this republican support in the news. If true, democrats should make that known. But then democrats would have to admit it exist.

Voter IDs get attacked as voter suppression. But I noticed recently some states with voter IDs have the highest voter turn outs in the country. I really don't buy the argument that it hurts minorities, unless you're an illegal minority I guess.

Democrats wanting to give criminals voting rights is because they know criminals are among their base. They just don't want to admit their true intentions.



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Mr Puggsly said:

Democrats wanting to give criminals voting rights is because they know criminals are among their base. They just don't want to admit their true intentions.

I personally find wanting to give citizens the right to vote because they might vote for you a lot less egregious than wanting to prevent citizens from voting because they might vote against you...



Machiavellian said:
the-pi-guy said:

Yes. Where is the proof that millions of voters are voting fraudulently?  Every study into the matter has shown the numbers are on the scale of a few dozen out of 200 million.  

 

Where is the evidence that Democrats are benefitting from it?  Out of the few occurrences of voter fraud in 2016, most of them voted for Republicans .

 

I have no problem with voter ID laws.  But why is it that so much of the time, they get followed by making it harder for minorities to vote?  

Democrats giving criminals voting rights is a vastly  different issue.  

The thing is there never is really any need these days for Proof.  As long as people feel this is happening then politicians will take advantage of those perception or create those perceptions.  This is the reason why we are in this thread today because of feelings.  I feel this is happening or I heard from someone, Youtube, tweet, political rally or statement.

When you really think about it you see how the current Republicans absolutely love this caravan of people coming to the US.  Nothing plays better for them then to make statements it's the Dems funding them.  Yep, the Dems is funding a caravan of people to illegal come into the US and somehow find a way to vote during elections.  It definitely plays to the fears of their base very well even if there isn't a shred of proof to it.  If that scenario doesn't work then they will proclaim they are trying to get here birth some babies and then those kids can vote Democrat in 18 years.

Since the popular vote doesn't matter, you really have to think about how this really plays out.

The debate isn't really whether or not its happening. Most agree its happening, but argue just not at a significant level.

Oh, I agree the republicans are benefitting from the caravan. It also puts the democrats in a weird position because they seem to be approving of it or ignoring it because they know independent voters generally are not happy about it. I'm not arguing the people on the caravan will vote, but it supports the narrative illegal immigration into this country is a mess.

The popular vote simply doesn't matter when voting for a president. Because we have a system that gives all states a say, but it still gives large states the most power. People ignore in the electoral college the democrats essentially start with the support of states like California, New York and numerous other states which is a lot of points in the electoral college. While republicans actually have to appeal to the working class if they hope to win the electoral college. Obama ran as a moderate and dominated. Hillary ran as left wing hack and got crushed in the electoral college.

However in local elections via the popular vote people can still vote for mayors, governors, senators, house representatives and other appointments that shape sates and the country. People actually want illegals voting in local elections and dems have been vocal about that. 



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sundin13 said:
Mr Puggsly said:

Democrats wanting to give criminals voting rights is because they know criminals are among their base. They just don't want to admit their true intentions.

I personally find wanting to give citizens the right to vote because they might vote for you a lot less egregious than wanting to prevent citizens from voting because they might vote against you...

Well democrats aren't jumping on this issue because they feel its an injustice. Its because they know it will help them get power. That's where it becomes egregious.



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Mr Puggsly said:
sundin13 said:

I personally find wanting to give citizens the right to vote because they might vote for you a lot less egregious than wanting to prevent citizens from voting because they might vote against you...

Well democrats aren't jumping on this issue because they feel its an injustice. Its because they know it will help them get power. That's where it becomes egregious.

But why? Why is helping people and restoring rights to them egregious?That is like saying "This person is horrible because they gave to charity because of tax breaks". They still gave to charity and helped people, I don't really see why I should care what their reasoning is, especially when it is based solely on an assumption...

Especially when, by that logic, Republicans are just removing rights from people because they know it will help them get power.



Mr Puggsly said:
vivster said:

As far as I know a lot of things in the US are antithetical to what happens in other developed countries. Democracy for example.

I'll say this and its on topic, I respect Angela Merkel. She must realize her stance on immigration was terrible and hurt your country.

Ah-hah...The truth comes out....Vivster lives in ex-Nazi Germany.  Interesting.



vivster said:
Majin-Tenshinhan said:

No, the statement is that they bring in illegal immigrants who will then vote for them.

Illegal immigrants can vote?

Initially, NO.  Once they obtain a driver's license, then YES.  It's that fucking easy to vote here.



Mr Puggsly said:

Just doing news searches on the topic show me its likely over a dozen and its unlikely they catch everyone doing it. Not really look to debate it, lets just agree it happens.

Pretty much anything that isn't against the laws of physics happens.  So it's pointless.  There's absolutely no evidence that it's a widespread issue.  

https://www.pbs.org/weta/washingtonweek/blog-post/numbers-voter-fraud

Mr Puggsly said:

Every time I see a voter fraud story it tends to be for left leaning support. Not sure how I'm missing all this republican support in the news. If true, democrats should make that known. But then democrats would have to admit it exist.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/12/01/0-000002-percent-of-all-the-ballots-cast-in-the-2016-election-were-fraudulent/?utm_term=.6e6052e3aaf0

In 2016, there were 4 people arrested for voter fraud.  None of them voted for Democrats.  

Of course, Democrats admit voter fraud happens. If you think they don't, you're being lied to.  The argument that Democrats make is that it's so incredibly rare that fixing the problem costs more than having it go.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHFOwlMCdto

Mr Puggsly said:

Voter IDs get attacked as voter suppression. But I noticed recently some states with voter IDs have the highest voter turn outs in the country. I really don't buy the argument that it hurts minorities, unless you're an illegal minority I guess.

 

Voter ID Laws's aren't suppression, the problem is ensuring that those ID's are available to everyone citizen who should have the right to vote.  

Mr Puggsly said:

Democrats wanting to give criminals voting rights is because they know criminals are among their base. They just don't want to admit their true intentions.

I didn't deny that Democrats wanted to give criminals voting rights, what I said is it has nothing to do with voter fraud.  

Democrats want to give criminals voting rights, because they are citizens and should be allowed to participate.  



sundin13 said:
Mr Puggsly said:

Well democrats aren't jumping on this issue because they feel its an injustice. Its because they know it will help them get power. That's where it becomes egregious.

But why? Why is helping people and restoring rights to them egregious?That is like saying "This person is horrible because they gave to charity because of tax breaks". They still gave to charity and helped people, I don't really see why I should care what their reasoning is, especially when it is based solely on an assumption...

Especially when, by that logic, Republicans are just removing rights from people because they know it will help them get power.

I don't think giving to charity is play to keep a party in power.

I don't think taking voting rights from criminals was a move to keep the republicans in power. Democrats also hate the electoral college because it keeps them from power, but it was never designed to keep democrats from power.



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