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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - How could Nintendo implement a Switch Pro?

At this point the key ability of Switch is it's hybrid nature. Removing it for a core TV experience doesn't make any sense. So hardwarewise it's a little complicated in my opinion. As many stated custom chips seem to be the go to option, since the Tegra X2 chip isn't as helpful as people seem to believe, improving mainly docked mode performance and reducing battery drain on the go is cool, but also widening the gap visually between both modes. A new Switch might need something, that improves even portable mode visually and that being said, I doubt we'll see it soon. End of 2019 or spring 2020 the earliest and in that time frame new innovations can come up. Maybe even a passive cooling system, that will allow Switch to overclock to some extent portable.

That being said, I guess we're going to see new editions and colors first.



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firmware update to allow you to use one of these and select dynamic resolution in all games, they should pretty much lock at 1080 in everything.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/GIGABYTE-Nvidia-Gaming-External-Graphics/dp/B076XVLWHM/ref=pd_sbs_147_1?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B076XVLWHM&pd_rd_r=9aed9f8e-7d06-11e8-9757-4d6404bb6412&pd_rd_w=bqpaY&pd_rd_wg=wLyZx&pf_rd_i=desktop-dp-sims&pf_rd_m=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&pf_rd_p=5179604776422437276&pf_rd_r=1AZGSGEF0NV1FT0MJAD2&pf_rd_s=desktop-dp-sims&pf_rd_t=40701&psc=1&refRID=1AZGSGEF0NV1FT0MJAD2

Simples and cheap!



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Soundwave said:
Custom Tegra Xavier would be the ticket IMO.

Full sized Xavier is way too big and beastly ... it's 5 TFLOPS at an amazing 30 watts or so, but they probably could deliver Nintendo a custom build that could run at 600 GFLOPS undocked/1.7 TFLOP docked (1/3 of a full size Xavier).

That would be an insane portable, basically any current gen title would be portable, and even probably a good number of PS5/XB Scarlet titles if you're OK with 540p-720p portable.

It's actually 1.3 TFlops only through the Cuda cores at full precision (FP32, which is mostly used in videogames).

Those often reported 5 TFlops are coming from using just half precision (FP16) and adding in the Tensor cores (also running at half precision in that scenario), which are useless in gaming situations. So to reach those 1.7 docked, they would actually need to strongly overclock that chip.

It's successor, which got announced early this year, however is supposed to reach that number, as it's supposed to be 5 times stronger. But for such an increase, the TDP will certainly increase again, too.

More realistic would be a Quad-core A72 or even A75 CPU (Switch is using the A57 right now, at 1.0 Ghz) at 1.3-1.4 Ghz (with the IPC increase of those chips over the A57, that CPU would actually be twice as fast despite the modest clock speed increase) and a Pascal-based GPU with 384 Cuda Cores (X1 has 256) at 1000-1200 Mhz docked (Switch 768-920) and 500-600 in handheld mode (Switch 307-384 Mhz). Additionally twice as many memory lanes with faster LPDDR4 memory for a much needed increase in Bandwith.

All in all the above would about double the performance of the Switch without consuming noticeably more if produced in a 14/12 nm process

Last edited by Bofferbrauer2 - on 01 July 2018

I agree with the OP, because historically speaking Nintendo has a habit of doing exactly this: Release an upgraded version of their current handheld with 2x the power.
Gameboy - Gameboy Color
DS - DSi
3DS - New 3DS

The GBA "pro" version was skipped because the DS launched only 4 years after the GBA. So, it's the sensible thing to predict that Nintendo will release a beefed up Switch. And it's only logical to assume that it will run the current docked mode in handheld mode, plus having a pro mode when docked. And going by precedence it will have 2x the CPU power and double the amount of RAM. As Nintendo doesn't have any demanding games to port down (unlike Xenoblade on New 3DS) what's probably going to differ is that we are going to see a bunch of Switch Pro exclusive third party games, probably ports (with downgrades) from PS4 and Xbox One that couldn't run well enough in handheld mode on the current Switch. They could even be "half exclusive", running in docked mode only on older Switch models.

So yeah, totally agree with your prediction, OP! Predicting this is not wishful thinking in my opinion but the reasonable thing for Nintendo to do and something they (almost) always do with their handheld line. Unfortunately, looking back at older Nintendo handhelds, the Switch Pro is probably going to release in late 2020 or early 2021. The first thing will probably be a "Switch Light" (same specs, better battery life and looks) and looking at Nintendo's bullish Switch prediction for this fiscal year this could release in March 2019.



I think most people are satisfied with the handheld performance of the Switch right? Nintendo's focus there should simply be making the SKU cheaper and longer battery life/power efficiency.

I don't think they should over complicate the SKU's but instead release a supplmentary GPU dock which allows Switch games to reach 4k when docked. Should be relatively cheap ($199) and easy to market. Given the weak strength of the Switch when docked, they could quite comfortably reach the 4k benchmark without spending big bucks on hardware.



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It won't happen with Switch.

Switch 2 maybe and that would be through the dock and a supplementary gpu. However the port on the console would need to be fast enough. Maybe thunderbolt 4 will be fast enough to make it worth it.



 

 

Why are people saying Xavier is “too big”?

Tegra X1 was too big. They shrunk it for mobile use.

They will shrink Xavier.

And there’s no point in upgrading to X2 when Xavier is available is way better.



I don't think they'll launch a Switch Pro. Devs already have to work with two configurations for their games, and adding a third one will only make the optimization more complicated. And if they go with the same idea of the New 3DS of making Switch Pro only games, that would break their userbase, making less developers interested in it.

What they may do is a Switch Mini, with a slightly smaller screen and using the Tegra X2 at lower clocks to give the same performance as the current X1 on the Switch. The end product would give the exact same performance for those that use it as a home console, but for those that use it as a handheld it would mean a more portable device with a longer battery life.



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Bofferbrauer2 said:

 Add to this a TDP of 30W, and you can see why Xavier won't make it into a future Switch console.

Shrink it to 10/7nm and allot of that TDP would be greatly reduced. - At the moment it is being fabricated on a "12nm" process. (Albeit, more like a refined 14/16nm process which in turn is based on 20nm planar... But I digress.)

Bofferbrauer2 said:

 While it still uses LPDDR4, Xavier has a 256bit connection instead of the usual 64bit (dual channel), meaning it has a 4 times higher bandwith than what you would normally expect with LPDDR4. It reaches 137Gbit/s, on par with low power GPUs (for instance, an Radeon RX 560 with 16CU only has 112Gbit/s).

It could have a 512-bit LPDDR4 connection with 274GB/s of bandwidth. It is still not enough for 8k.

I am probably the last person on these forums you need to explain bandwidth, bus widths, clock rate and so on. :P

Bofferbrauer2 said:

The GPU is rated at 1.3TFlops, roughly the same as the OG Xbox ONE (1.31, the S is clocked higher and thus a bit faster at 1.4TFlops)


Yeah. Using flop numbers in meaningless.
It's common knowledge that nVidia GPU's, be it Maxwell, Pascal or Volta is simply more efficient than the Archaic Graphics Core Next architecture in the Xbox One.
Nor are the bandwidth numbers even directly comparable either. (I.E. Delta Colour Compression.)

Nuvendil said:

 Pair an X2 with an increase to 6GB of RAM (with the OS taking up just under 1 GB, that leaves 5 GBs for games), and you have a very nice upgrade for a Switch Pro to help extend the platform's life. But if Nintendo wants to continue with Nvidia beyond the X2 for the Switch successor, it will have to likely be with bespoke chip sets developed in collaboration between Nintendo and Nvidia.

Considering how relatively light the Switch OS in comparison to the Monolithic OS that the Xbox One and Playstation 4 consoles have... The Switch would probably end up pretty competitive on the Ram capacity from once that is all taken into account if it had 6GB of LPDDR4.

Soundwave said:
Custom Tegra Xavier would be the ticket IMO.

Full sized Xavier is way too big and beastly ... it's 5 TFLOPS at an amazing 30 watts or so, but they probably could deliver Nintendo a custom build that could run at 600 GFLOPS undocked/1.7 TFLOP docked (1/3 of a full size Xavier).

That would be an insane portable, basically any current gen title would be portable, and even probably a good number of PS5/XB Scarlet titles if you're OK with 540p-720p portable.

You are way to focused on meaningless flop numbers.
Xavier is also not 5 Teraflops of single precision FP.





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I think that does not make sense when it still will be under powered and not enough to have real ports of the 4k ps4,xb1 games and keep it affordable.

Maybe a slightly boosted version like with what they did the 3ds and new 3ds. with a switch light or something? but not like a big or major jump, just makes some things snappier.