By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Gaming Discussion - Nintendo Switch model is expensive for us and cheap for Nintendo. Hardware and Software.

Intrinsic said:

Only thing I really find funny though are those that still say graphics/power don't matter. I get that at the heart of it all gameplay is what counts, but really; can't we have both? I would personally killl for a zelda game that looks like Uncharted 4.

Sure, Breath of the Wild looks beautiful as does the brief footage we saw of the new 3D Mario. Switch doesn't need to be on par with XBO/PS4 to have beautiful looking games.

As for releasing a $300-400 console that is on par with XBO/PS4 with a focus on recieving multiplats, sure Nintendo could do that but what would it gain them? The audience for AAA western multiplats simply is not on Nintendo and releasing a console on par with them halfway through their life cycles will not cause these people to move to Nintendo.

That means these games likely wont sell well on it and these type of games stop releasing on it once again making it a $300-400 console just to play Nintendo games and the occasional 3rd party exclusive.

This would also mean that Nintendo would still need to release a seperate handheld meaning their software output is split once again and the situation will be worse because it will take more time to pump games out for a PS3/360 level handheld along with a PS4/XBO level than it currently does for 3DS & Wii U so Nintendo is even worse off than they currently are.

Releasing a single device that is midway between PS3/360 & PS4/XBO for $250 with the goal of consolidating the support that Nintendo handhelds & consoles recieves is a far better option than what you are proposing.



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

Around the Network

On one hand it makes sense. If NiN focuses only on Switch, and can also rope in a lot of the 3DS gamers, then they can produce way more hybrid units, which leads to much lower prices from hardware suppliers, which should lead to more sales, like the Wii. This is no guarantee, but should work if NiN has solid messaging and pricing.

On the other hand, NiN is sort of putting all of their eggs in one basket. If Switch fails then it won't be good for the future of NiN's console division at all. Maybe NiN still cares about consoles, maybe they think its time to just let go and focus on mobile. Its hard to tell right now.

"Still, I am not sure if the form factor (the size and configuration of the hardware) will be integrated. In contrast, the number of form factors might increase. Currently, we can only provide two form factors because if we had three or four different architectures, we would face serious shortages of software on every platform. To cite a specific case, Apple is able to release smart devices with various form factors one after another because there is one way of programming adopted by all platforms. Apple has a common platform called iOS. Another example is Android. Though there are various models, Android does not face software shortages because there is one common way of programming on the Android platform that works with various models. The point is, Nintendo platforms should be like those two examples. Whether we will ultimately need just one device will be determined by what consumers demand in the future, and that is not something we know at the moment."

That is an early NX quote from Iwata.

What I wonder is if Nvidia was able to sell NiN on Tegra, and NiN bought into Tegra, and NiN does mobile and console gaming, and Nvidia's Tegra does mobile and console gaming, why wouldn't NiN make a Tegra based console that is somewhat, if not fully compatible with Switch? Same idea as PS4 and Pro. Nvidia already has the Tegra based Shield console hardware ready to go, just make the mods needed to be compatible with Switch, if any are needed, and change the case design and slap NiN on it and call it Switch Home.

This would allow NiN to stick with Nvidia for both devices, and would make software development across both platforms super easy, and would also cater to both mobile and console gamers. This to me just makes way to much sense, especially when you hear rumors about AAA third party Switch support, and Pro like specs. A souped up Tegra console with something comparable to a down clocked GTX 1060 would do just that and would stay true to what Iwata said about NX development.

At the very least, Iwata makes it sound like if there is no dedicated Switch Home console coming now, that there's a possibility that they will make one, along with other potential gaming devices, all based on Nvidia Tegra.



CrazyGPU said:

Ok, I get it. As much as I want a real Desktop Console from Nintendo, all I will get is outdated hardware with bad specs and cheap software. The only thing that remains from Nintendo is their creativity.

Lets face it. Nintendo wasn´t like this every generation. Most people say that Nintendo always sells outdated hardware. Not when the Nintendo 64 was ahead of the competition hardware wise. 

They are going to sell a 0,4 Teraflops (desktop) or 0,15-0,2 Tf (handheld) at 200 USS. And they are going to give us Maxwell Nvidia Architecture, introduced in february 2014. A 3 years old architecture.  It will have the same power of a modern tablet or phone. Thats not a Console, Its a tablet designed and sold like a console. Some say its close to 1 Teraflop of power.  Thats 16 bits floating point. If you consider the commonly used 32 bits floating points it´ll give you the 400-500 Gigaflops number. PS4 pro has near 10 times that power, and they say that this thing is going to run 3rd party software? come on, how many games? and how are they going to run on the go with 150 Gigaflops?

Now lets talk games. Nintendo is always creative and great with games, But I remember that Wii U games were getting out very slow and Nintendo told the press that they made a mistake calculating HD games cost. So I guess 4k or nicely looking 1080p games might be very very expensive for them. What are they going to do? games at 720p. Cheaper games and cheaper work on lighting and textures. Of course they are going to sell them to you at full price. 

Now Nintendo fan boys will tell me that that doesnt matter, the only thing that matter is games and that they dont care about better graphics, Then why aren´t they playing NES (1985) games? Would ´t they like characters like in Cartoon movies? I think they would, the point is Nintendo is not going to pay for them. They will give you cheap hardware, cheap games and you will think that you are paying only 200 USS, a great price.

Come on Nintendo , sell it to me like a new 3DS, a new hanheld console with HDMI output, don´t try to sell it to me like a new generation desktop console system. Be honest!. 

Anyway, with all the smartphones and tablets arround, will this thing sell in any other place than Japan? Maybe it will, maybe not, we´ll see. But its not a competitor for PS4 pro and next year Scorpio. Its 10 times less powerfull and I dont know how its going to last 4 or 5 years. 

Before, I was thinking, if this thing run at desktop like a PS4, with 1080p in medium quality, i´ll might buy it, it will have the 3rd party games and great nintendo games. A win win situation. Now all I see is a hanheld with nintendo games. And yes, Nintendo has great games, but how many? and mostly the same franchises.

But what about Sony for example. The last of us, Uncharted, Bloodborne, Quantic Dreams games like Heavy Rain, Gran Turismo, VR and a lot more coming. Also all the 3rd parties great games, for 250 USS on PS4 and 400 on PS4 pro. XBOX gives you Forza, Gears and Halo. Also all 3d parties. And you get a 4K BR player. I don´t care about it, but hey, its a good option for 250 USS.

And Nintendo? Mostly cheap Nintendo games for a Hanheld that I can plug to the tv with cheap old hardware and graphics for 200 USS. Are the games so good that makes this the best option. Not for me. Maybe for some it is, I respect that, but for what I care,

Sorry Nintendo. You lost a Customer.

 

Tegra Maxwell tech/arhitecture is last years tech/hardware, not outdated. You actualy with Switch has latest Nvidia tech/arhitecture that is availible (sources saying that Pascal Tegra couldn't be done on time for Switch), and thats difrence compared to Wii/WiiU and DS/3DS.

Cheap software!? Do you consider for cheap software 3D Mario, 3D Zelda, MK, Splatoon, Smash, Pikmin, new Retros game...!?

Switch will be around 2-3x more stronger than Wii U in evre case.

Nintendo games were very slow on Wii U beacuse that was Nintendo 1st HD console and in same time they suported 3DS, two huge problems they will not have with Switch.

Did you actualy saw all Switch games so you could say, cheap games!? If you dont think that Nintendo games dont not worth its price, just dont buy them or console, but reality is that they usually worth their prices and usually they have great replayability.

You do realise that Switch even in portable mode will be stronger than Wii U, thats means it's incompatible stronger than 3DS (like 50x stronger), so saying that Nintendo is selling you new 3DS just with HDMI is not true at all, espacily becuse in dock mode Switch has around 2.5x more power and acts like real home console.

Switch will definitely find its place on market, (it's basically home console and handheld in same time something that doesn't offer any other console on market), among Nintendo fans, kids, familes, casuals, handheld lowers, even like secondary console for PS4/XB1 owners.

Thats your point of view, but for instance I don't like handhelds and for me on 1st place is home console because 90% of time I will use it like home console, and like home console it will be around 2-3x stronger than Wii U, enuf for Nintendo games at 1080p.

 

OK, I get you wanted stronger hardware even it was very obvious that Switch will be less powerful than XB1 in any case, it was obvious that Nintendo with Switch will not compete on power with XB1/PS4 and that they will again offer something difrent, also Nintendo last few times proved that they can make great and beautiful games even with much weaker hardware compared to competition, but not only that you also rant about things you dont know anuthing, saying that Switch will have only cheap handheld games is one example.

And just for record, infos saying that Switch price point will be $249-299 not $199, there is no sense that Switch (that offers much more) will have same price like New 3DS XL that is still selling solid.



zorg1000 said:
Intrinsic said:

Only thing I really find funny though are those that still say graphics/power don't matter. I get that at the heart of it all gameplay is what counts, but really; can't we have both? I would personally killl for a zelda game that looks like Uncharted 4.

As for releasing a $300-400 console that is on par with XBO/PS4 with a focus on recieving multiplats, sure Nintendo could do that but what would it gain them? The audience for AAA western multiplats simply is not on Nintendo and releasing a console on par with them halfway through their life cycles will not cause these people to move to Nintendo.

Because they literally don't try to. Sony didn't get where they are off of nothing, they got here for trying to accomadate with 3rd parties. Nintendo can make a comeback with third parties, anything is possible. They certainly have more money to push around than Sony.



If I only cared about power I would buy my games on PC but since I can't play the type of games I want to play I need consoles, that's why I have a PS4 and Wii-U and soon buying the Swich.

Seriously all the Sony/MS fanboys are getting on my F-ing nerves... "you" are worst then the "PC master race" people.

 

User was warned for this post ~ CGI



If it isn't turnbased it isn't worth playing   (mostly)

And shepherds we shall be,

For Thee, my Lord, for Thee. Power hath descended forth from Thy hand, That our feet may swiftly carry out Thy command. So we shall flow a river forth to Thee And teeming with souls shall it ever be. In Nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritūs Sancti. -----The Boondock Saints

Around the Network

Lets be honest. Nintendo was never about the customer or about presenting value to said customer. Its why their first party games are always expensive even as the console is dying and they are putting out the next console. For Nintendo, its all about making the cheapest machine possible while being able to mark up the price as much as possible. And forget about programs like GWG or PS+. Yes its a yearly sub but the games? That is giving too much to the customer.

Even when they get it right with Club Nintendo and the DDP, they let it expire and give us My Nintendo which is a definite step down. Seriously. If it wasn't for Nintendo first party games they would have priced themselves out of the video game business. Heck even their first foray into mobile exemplifies the Nintendo spirit. Overpriced, set up with DRM to protect against piracy and short on content.



CrazyGPU said:

It will have the same power of a modern tablet or phone. Thats not a Console, Its a tablet designed and sold like a console. Some say its close to 1 Teraflop of power.  Thats 16 bits floating point. If you consider the commonly used 32 bits floating points it´ll give you the 400-500 Gigaflops number. PS4 pro has near 10 times that power, and they say that this thing is going to run 3rd party software? come on, how many games? and how are they going to run on the go with 150 Gigaflops?

Unless you have an understanding of how Flops relates to graphics, then presenting it in such a way is completely and utterly pointless.
Tegra can do more work flop for flop than Graphics Core Next in the next-gen twins.

CrazyGPU said:

Now lets talk games. Nintendo is always creative and great with games, But I remember that Wii U games were getting out very slow and Nintendo told the press that they made a mistake calculating HD games cost. So I guess 4k or nicely looking 1080p games might be very very expensive for them. What are they going to do? games at 720p. Cheaper games and cheaper work on lighting and textures. Of course they are going to sell them to you at full price.

You can take any game and run it at whatever resolution you want. The cost doesn't actually change.

The cost comes from needing to build higher quality assets, which is generally required regardless of the resolution you run at. (We aren't Photo-realistic at any resolution yet.)

CrazyGPU said:

Before, I was thinking, if this thing run at desktop like a PS4, with 1080p in medium quality, i´ll might buy it, it will have the 3rd party games and great nintendo games. A win win situation. Now all I see is a hanheld with nintendo games. And yes, Nintendo has great games, but how many? and mostly the same franchises.

 

So... Basically an Xbox One then? That was never going to happen. - Unfortunately people didn't realign their expectations when they discovered it was Tegra powered. (Like Ouya.)
Once it was confirmed it was Tegra powered it was sitting between the Wii U and Xbox One in terms of capability. - That fact doesn't change even with the downclocks.

If people had an understanding of what Tegra was capable of, then this backlash wouldn't have happened to the same degree.
Partly that was Nintendo's fault for letting rumours fly around about every single hardware possibility for months and months... And the fanbase for expecting it to be a competitor to the Playstation 4 Pro and Scorpio.

It was just never going to happen. Like Ever.

Intrinsic said:

In a way i don't blame them anymore, this is simply what they have to do to make it. They just can't compete with sony and Ms anymore, they have to do their own thing in a different enough way for them to still be relevant even without third party support.

I have to disagree.

Nintendo is more than capable of competing with Sony and Microsoft and leveraging its brand to take a chunk of the market. This is Nintendo. - They are the Disney of Video games in essence.

Besides, it isn't like Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo are designing the chips that are inside of these boxes, they are taking semi-custom/vanilla designs made by AMD/nVidia/IBM, packaging it nice and neatly in a nice looking box and whacking a sticker on top and calling it a day.

However, by Nintendo not having competitive hardware that allows for the easy porting of big AAA titles like Battlefield, Call of Duty, Elder Scrolls etc'. Then they are loosing out on millions of potential gamers/customers... And even advertising.
When was the last time you saw a AAA title advertised via video or poster that was available on the Next-Gen twins which also said "Also available on WiiU?" - That is advertising Nintendo looses out on.

Nintendo can be competitive and still remain successfull if it plays it's cards right. - No one thought Microsoft would be able to take as much of the market as it did from Sony with the Xbox 360, especially after the original Xbox, but they did it, if Microsoft can do it, you can bet the farm Nintendo can with things like Mario and Pokemon.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

EricHiggin said:

On one hand it makes sense. If NiN focuses only on Switch, and can also rope in a lot of the 3DS gamers, then they can produce way more hybrid units, which leads to much lower prices from hardware suppliers, which should lead to more sales, like the Wii. This is no guarantee, but should work if NiN has solid messaging and pricing.

On the other hand, NiN is sort of putting all of their eggs in one basket. If Switch fails then it won't be good for the future of NiN's console division at all. Maybe NiN still cares about consoles, maybe they think its time to just let go and focus on mobile. Its hard to tell right now.

"Still, I am not sure if the form factor (the size and configuration of the hardware) will be integrated. In contrast, the number of form factors might increase. Currently, we can only provide two form factors because if we had three or four different architectures, we would face serious shortages of software on every platform. To cite a specific case, Apple is able to release smart devices with various form factors one after another because there is one way of programming adopted by all platforms. Apple has a common platform called iOS. Another example is Android. Though there are various models, Android does not face software shortages because there is one common way of programming on the Android platform that works with various models. The point is, Nintendo platforms should be like those two examples. Whether we will ultimately need just one device will be determined by what consumers demand in the future, and that is not something we know at the moment."

That is an early NX quote from Iwata.

What I wonder is if Nvidia was able to sell NiN on Tegra, and NiN bought into Tegra, and NiN does mobile and console gaming, and Nvidia's Tegra does mobile and console gaming, why wouldn't NiN make a Tegra based console that is somewhat, if not fully compatible with Switch? Same idea as PS4 and Pro. Nvidia already has the Tegra based Shield console hardware ready to go, just make the mods needed to be compatible with Switch, if any are needed, and change the case design and slap NiN on it and call it Switch Home.

This would allow NiN to stick with Nvidia for both devices, and would make software development across both platforms super easy, and would also cater to both mobile and console gamers. This to me just makes way to much sense, especially when you hear rumors about AAA third party Switch support, and Pro like specs. A souped up Tegra console with something comparable to a down clocked GTX 1060 would do just that and would stay true to what Iwata said about NX development.

At the very least, Iwata makes it sound like if there is no dedicated Switch Home console coming now, that there's a possibility that they will make one, along with other potential gaming devices, all based on Nvidia Tegra.



If you demand respect or gratitude for your volunteer work, you're doing volunteering wrong.

The Downward Spiral 2 confirmed?



Pemalite said:
CrazyGPU said:

It will have the same power of a modern tablet or phone. Thats not a Console, Its a tablet designed and sold like a console. Some say its close to 1 Teraflop of power.  Thats 16 bits floating point. If you consider the commonly used 32 bits floating points it´ll give you the 400-500 Gigaflops number. PS4 pro has near 10 times that power, and they say that this thing is going to run 3rd party software? come on, how many games? and how are they going to run on the go with 150 Gigaflops?

Unless you have an understanding of how Flops relates to graphics, then presenting it in such a way is completely and utterly pointless.
Tegra can do more work flop for flop than Graphics Core Next in the next-gen twins.

CrazyGPU said:

Now lets talk games. Nintendo is always creative and great with games, But I remember that Wii U games were getting out very slow and Nintendo told the press that they made a mistake calculating HD games cost. So I guess 4k or nicely looking 1080p games might be very very expensive for them. What are they going to do? games at 720p. Cheaper games and cheaper work on lighting and textures. Of course they are going to sell them to you at full price.

You can take any game and run it at whatever resolution you want. The cost doesn't actually change.

The cost comes from needing to build higher quality assets, which is generally required regardless of the resolution you run at. (We aren't Photo-realistic at any resolution yet.)

CrazyGPU said:

Before, I was thinking, if this thing run at desktop like a PS4, with 1080p in medium quality, i´ll might buy it, it will have the 3rd party games and great nintendo games. A win win situation. Now all I see is a hanheld with nintendo games. And yes, Nintendo has great games, but how many? and mostly the same franchises.

 

So... Basically an Xbox One then? That was never going to happen. - Unfortunately people didn't realign their expectations when they discovered it was Tegra powered. (Like Ouya.)
Once it was confirmed it was Tegra powered it was sitting between the Wii U and Xbox One in terms of capability. - That fact doesn't change even with the downclocks.

If people had an understanding of what Tegra was capable of, then this backlash wouldn't have happened to the same degree.
Partly that was Nintendo's fault for letting rumours fly around about every single hardware possibility for months and months... And the fanbase for expecting it to be a competitor to the Playstation 4 Pro and Scorpio.

It was just never going to happen. Like Ever.

Intrinsic said:

In a way i don't blame them anymore, this is simply what they have to do to make it. They just can't compete with sony and Ms anymore, they have to do their own thing in a different enough way for them to still be relevant even without third party support.

I have to disagree.

Nintendo is more than capable of competing with Sony and Microsoft and leveraging its brand to take a chunk of the market. This is Nintendo. - They are the Disney of Video games in essence.

Besides, it isn't like Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo are designing the chips that are inside of these boxes, they are taking semi-custom/vanilla designs made by AMD/nVidia/IBM, packaging it nice and neatly in a nice looking box and whacking a sticker on top and calling it a day.

However, by Nintendo not having competitive hardware that allows for the easy porting of big AAA titles like Battlefield, Call of Duty, Elder Scrolls etc'. Then they are loosing out on millions of potential gamers/customers... And even advertising.
When was the last time you saw a AAA title advertised via video or poster that was available on the Next-Gen twins which also said "Also available on WiiU?" - That is advertising Nintendo looses out on.

Nintendo can be competitive and still remain successfull if it plays it's cards right. - No one thought Microsoft would be able to take as much of the market as it did from Sony with the Xbox 360, especially after the original Xbox, but they did it, if Microsoft can do it, you can bet the farm Nintendo can with things like Mario and Pokemon.

Uh, well actually the XBox brand finished pretty strong that first generation with Halo 2, the XBox was even outselling the PS2 for some months as that generation went on. 

So I don't think anyone was thinking the XBox 360 had no chance. And when Sony said 599 ... that basically created the opening for MS. 

Nintendo I don't think is even playing cards anymore, lol. They're off in the corner playing with their own LEGO blocks and checking in on MS and Sony who play cards once in a while.