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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Will Sony get cocky next generation?

 

Will Sony span two generations with major sucess?

Even-Steven! 21 8.97%
 
Nintendo Switch (switch) 49 20.94%
 
PS 5 is Alive! 129 55.13%
 
It's XB2 Electric Boogaloo! 15 6.41%
 
No more consoles, just a ... 20 8.55%
 
Total:234
Rafie on 13 December 2016
scrapking said:

Rafie said:

 Still what works with one company make not work with another. Just because it's seemingly beneficial to have some of their exclusives on the PC, doesn't mean that it's actually beneficial for them. In this case with the trying hard bit, it doesn't really work here. There's an obvious reason why Sony chose to keep some of their own exclusives from the PC. Which is really smart. Oh and no offense my friend, but that was a weak analogy. Although I do get the sentiment you're relaying.

 

* Just to let you know, the mod support on the Xbox is still abit limited itself. It's not like the PC where you get full range. Sony has directives in place for their console. Hopefully, we'll see something soon with that.

*With the internal HDD it's unbelievably easy. Sure the external is much more easier as you only have to plug it in. However, I'm glad that I can change it internally without the drive being out in the open. Then again, it would be nice to have an external HD option. Like you said....convenience.

*Why do you see it as arrogance for Sony because they didn't add a UHD blu ray drive? People weren't asking for it. I admit it was very strange not to add it, but Sony explained their reason for not having it. I guess the reasons aren't enough as it still doesn't negate the fact that they could have had it. I see that more as a misstep. They added blu ray to the PS3 before it was even the norm. People say that as arrogant because it hiked the price up. Now that they omitted and UHD drive, they're arrogant for not having one.

[...]

[Edit to correct "are" to "aren't" in the first sentence.]  I tend to agree with you that these aren't examples of Sony's old arrogance returning.  At least not yet.  I have argued, and continue to believe, that eschewing UHD in the Pro (well, more to the point, BD-XL) is a bad strategy as it will hamper for years longer how high the capacity of game discs can go, a problem when supporting multiple levels of system (PS4, PS4 Pro, PS5), additional assets for VR, etc.  Unless they believe that games will be predominantly digitally distributed in the near future (rather than the 10-30% digitally distributed that they are today), it's a bad strategy not to establish BD-XL for the PS4 Pro.  But like you say, it's a misstep rather than arrogance.

I agree that replacing the internal drive as easily as on the PS4 is good, and I think allowing installs to external drives as on the Xbox One is good.  The perfect console would have both.  :)  Which a user thinks is the more important option depends on their priorities.  One advantage of game installs to an external drive is that both drives can be accessed concurrently to avoid drive thrashing (perhaps an app or OS components being accessed off the internal drive, while game assets are accessed simultaneously off the external drive).  There are potential advantages to external drive support such as the ability to take your external drive to a friends house, sign in with your gamertag, and you're good to go.  I have an Xbox One at home and an Xbox One S in the staff room at work, so that's a potential advantage to me.  As games get bigger, that may be something I do more of in the future.

I think Sony keeping their exclusives off the PC is a mistake.  You suggest Sony keeps "some" of their exclusives off the PC.  Did they release any non-MMO exclusives on the PC?  None come to mind.  I don't think Sony failing to release them on PC is arrogance as traditionally few first-party console titles got PC releases.  I see that as Microsoft taking a consumer-positive stance, as opposed to Sony taking an anti-consumer stance.

Mod support is limited on the Xbox One, but far less limited than it is on the PS4 according to mod creators on Reddit.  That's the strongest argument in this whole thread in favour of Sony's arrogant ways returning, IMO.

Uhh....I think the bolded will always be an issue of preference. PC gamers want any and all exclusives. No matter who it's from. As long as the PC can play it, then it's cool. This is why I believe that Xbox lost some of their identity as a console business conglomerate. Sharing over 90% of their titles with the PC feels like a mistake to me. What separates Xbox from PC then beside one being a console? The games was suppose to do that, in my opinion. PlayStation not giving the PC their exclusives is more of smart move than a mistake here. Just like Nintendo, if you want to play games like God Of War, Ratchet & Clank,  Gran Turismo, Gravity Rush, etc....then you will have to purchase a PlayStation console.

Now you have some of the best games that made Xbox stellar like Forza, Gears, Halo, etc on the PC now. Sure it's good for PC gamers, but Xbox folks can only claim a little victory over the 2 rivals.

What I meant about "some" of the exclusives going to PC...it was more about consoles exclusives. So games like SFV, Nier, KOF, NMS, etc are games that's on PC, but not on Xbox. Whether Sony had more control over what would go to PC or not remains to be seen. That's more or less of what I meant about some exclusives. First party games at the moment aren't available on PC. Just strictly Sony. Just like Nintendo first party and second party isn't on PC. Gotta keep some of those gems close to your chest. So future games like Scalebound, Cuphead, Crackdown 3, and such will be available on PC. You won't find GT, NioH, Persona 5, and other on PC. That's why I said what I said about Sony keeping their exclusive games off PC is a smart move. This is no shade at MS and how they're doing business. I'm just a consumer and only see it thru a consumer's pov. Please enlighten me as to why it's beneficial for Sony to have their games on PC. Outside of gaining a larger audience, what other benefits will they have? Btw, I'm not being facitious nor sarcastic when I asked to be enlightened. Just want your stance.



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AsGryffynn on 13 December 2016
scrapking said:
Several Xbox One and PS4 games are already pushing 50 GB. Developers now have to add in a second set of textures for the PS4 Pro, and possibly other assets specific to PSVR, but have no extra space on the disc.

I understand that developers are being discouraged from making games specific for the PS4 Pro at this time. However, when the PS5 gets released we'll likely have that restriction dropped at a developer's discretion. If the PS4 Pro'd had its drive upgraded from BD to UHD, that would have brought BD-XL along for the ride (which would have doubled capacity to up to 100 GB per disc). At that time a developer would be able to make a game for the PS4 and PS4 Pro within 50 GB, or a game for the PS4 Pro and PS5 within 100 GB. But now they'll be stuck at 50 GB for any PS5 game disc that retains compatibility with the PS4 Pro. Not very forward thinking, if you ask me. Eschewing UHD is about so much more than movie discs, despite what some commenters say.

The way I see it, we will eventually have discs only containing a file manager to download the game. 



mutantsushi on 13 December 2016

Yeah, I've mentioned the implications of UHD/BDXL drive on GAME DISKS/SIZE, but it's usually overlooked.
Larger game disk size has alot of benefits, from increasing overall scope/size of games,
to cases like Pro where different performance modes are offered, and they could have parallel high/low texture files.
Certainly cut scenes in 4k will take up more space along with regular game assets.
And looking forward to PS5 it seems even more likely that larger game disc sizes will be needed...
But if PS4 Pro doesn't have that drive, then cross-compatable game discs become impossible.

The 4K/UHD Blu Ray market is currently in infant state, so obviously there isn't current immediate demand.
But the point is being good value going forward, and not stiffing people for a tiny cost (if any).
People didn't "ask" for the feature ahead of time, because people were assuming the Pro would include it.

(when comparing price differential using PC internal drives as baseline, I simply couldn't find NON-BDXL spec drives)
(if the cost is truly so serious, it beggars belief that there exists no market for lower spec drives)
(in fact the actual manufacturing cost difference is likely so tiny that any nominal difference will disappear over life of Pro)
(and Sony is able to get best possible deal given size of order)



Soundwave on 13 December 2016

Who knows, but I don't think Microsoft will make as many mistakes for them to capitalize on. '

There's nothing specifically that Sony does that's so special or undoable by MS, they just have to avoid the dumber mistakes.

Had XBox One been a 2 TFLOP machine with no Kinect for $399.99 day 1, this generation would've turned out very differently IMO. 



Soundwave on 13 December 2016
Bandorr said:
Soundwave said:

Who knows, but I don't think Microsoft will make as many mistakes for them to capitalize on. '

There's nothing specifically that Sony does that's so special or undoable by MS, they just have to avoid the dumber mistakes.

Had XBox One been a 2 TFLOP machine with no Kinect for $399.99 day 1, this generation would've turned out very differently IMO. 

And avoided stuff like "its always online" and "no used games". Oh and talked less, about "TV.  Plus outputted a lot more games. Plus has BC from the beginning. Actual BC not a very slow trickle of games.

Oh and did "Play anywhere" from the beginning.

Sure do all that and things probably would have changed quite a bit.

They had already backed off the no used games stuff by launch. If they had made a 2 TFLOP XBox One with no Kinect for $399.99 from day 1, they'd probably have won North America this gen at least. 

The fact that the XBox One is still fairly competetive in the US even despite all the screw ups indicates that too. 



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scrapking on 14 December 2016
AsGryffynn said:
scrapking said:
Several Xbox One and PS4 games are already pushing 50 GB. Developers now have to add in a second set of textures for the PS4 Pro, and possibly other assets specific to PSVR, but have no extra space on the disc.

I understand that developers are being discouraged from making games specific for the PS4 Pro at this time. However, when the PS5 gets released we'll likely have that restriction dropped at a developer's discretion. If the PS4 Pro'd had its drive upgraded from BD to UHD, that would have brought BD-XL along for the ride (which would have doubled capacity to up to 100 GB per disc). At that time a developer would be able to make a game for the PS4 and PS4 Pro within 50 GB, or a game for the PS4 Pro and PS5 within 100 GB. But now they'll be stuck at 50 GB for any PS5 game disc that retains compatibility with the PS4 Pro. Not very forward thinking, if you ask me. Eschewing UHD is about so much more than movie discs, despite what some commenters say.

The way I see it, we will eventually have discs only containing a file manager to download the game. 

Eventually, yes.  But on what time frame?  I'm fully digital this generation, the only physical games I've owned came with systems and I sold them off.  But I have a 150 Mbps connection, etc.  Not everyone has a fast connection, and not everyone has unlimited bandwidth.  I have several Xbox Ones, and when Halo: The Master Chief Collection came out I was having to download around 70 GB *per XBox*.  But at that time my total bandwidth allotment was only 250 GB for the entire month.  Lots of AAA titles are 40-50 GB now.

While pre-loading the game prior to launch day can help compensate for the amount of time it takes to download, I've read comments on forums from people who need to start a AAA download a week before release date in order to get it on time, and they don't always get offered it that far in advance.  Then  you have unusual circumstances like with Halo: tMCC where virtually the entire game had to be re-downloaded by people who had done the pre-download due to some bug or error.

Some people don't have the speed, and some don't have the bandwidth, and some simply don't have a sufficiently reliable internet connection.  I'm none of the above, I have the speed, I have the bandwidth, and my connection is pretty rock-solid.  But the reality is that 70-90% of AAA games are sold on disc.  Some of those people just want to trade it in, but a not-insignificant amount of them do so because they find digital distribution inconvenient and/or impractical.



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AsGryffynn on 15 December 2016

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AsGryffynn on 15 December 2016

Argh, comment button's broken... 



AsGryffynn on 15 December 2016

...

I cannot post my response now



AsGryffynn on 15 December 2016
Soundwave said:

Who knows, but I don't think Microsoft will make as many mistakes for them to capitalize on. '

There's nothing specifically that Sony does that's so special or undoable by MS, they just have to avoid the dumber mistakes.

Had XBox One been a 2 TFLOP machine with no Kinect for $399.99 day 1, this generation would've turned out very differently IMO. 

Had the price been the same as the other system, the Kinect had not been bundled, they had waited until Sony revealed their stuff first as they were planning the same thing, had they boosted the GPU to similar performance and released BC earlier, they might have emerged victorious. The TV thing wasn't the problem. The problem was the PR gridlock and the price. 

Bandorr said:
Soundwave said:

Who knows, but I don't think Microsoft will make as many mistakes for them to capitalize on. '

There's nothing specifically that Sony does that's so special or undoable by MS, they just have to avoid the dumber mistakes.

Had XBox One been a 2 TFLOP machine with no Kinect for $399.99 day 1, this generation would've turned out very differently IMO. 

And avoided stuff like "its always online" and "no used games". Oh and talked less, about "TV.  Plus outputted a lot more games. Plus has BC from the beginning. Actual BC not a very slow trickle of games.

Oh and did "Play anywhere" from the beginning.

Sure do all that and things probably would have changed quite a bit.

Some of us liked the TV stuff. They should've kept that one. I want an all in one machine that renders the rest of the house useless over a gaming PC... 

scrapking said:
AsGryffynn said:

The way I see it, we will eventually have discs only containing a file manager to download the game. 

Eventually, yes.  But on what time frame?  I'm fully digital this generation, the only physical games I've owned came with systems and I sold them off.  But I have a 150 Mbps connection, etc.  Not everyone has a fast connection, and not everyone has unlimited bandwidth.  I have several Xbox Ones, and when Halo: The Master Chief Collection came out I was having to download around 70 GB *per XBox*.  But at that time my total bandwidth allotment was only 250 GB for the entire month.  Lots of AAA titles are 40-50 GB now.

While pre-loading the game prior to launch day can help compensate for the amount of time it takes to download, I've read comments on forums from people who need to start a AAA download a week before release date in order to get it on time, and they don't always get offered it that far in advance.  Then  you have unusual circumstances like with Halo: tMCC where virtually the entire game had to be re-downloaded by people who had done the pre-download due to some bug or error.

Some people don't have the speed, and some don't have the bandwidth, and some simply don't have a sufficiently reliable internet connection.  I'm none of the above, I have the speed, I have the bandwidth, and my connection is pretty rock-solid.  But the reality is that 70-90% of AAA games are sold on disc.  Some of those people just want to trade it in, but a not-insignificant amount of them do so because they find digital distribution inconvenient and/or impractical.

Probably a few years. Don't worry, odds are it will not be a thing for at least 6 more years... As a whole, this might only happen once we lose the ability to make cheap disks. We already have trouble with the devs over deadlines...