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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Will Sony get cocky next generation?

 

Will Sony span two generations with major sucess?

Even-Steven! 21 8.97%
 
Nintendo Switch (switch) 49 20.94%
 
PS 5 is Alive! 129 55.13%
 
It's XB2 Electric Boogaloo! 15 6.41%
 
No more consoles, just a ... 20 8.55%
 
Total:234

I think they will get cocky again. PS3 should have been the blueprint of what *not* to do. And what did Microsoft do when they revealed the XBOne?

The lesson was in plain sight, but they thought they could get away with it because somebody must have been feeding information into their ear that "hey, you were popular last gen. You'll be poplar this gen, too! So do what you want!".....despite Sony doing the exact same thing and it backfired.

These businesses don't listen to common sense. They listen to where they think the money will come from.



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I think it somewhat depends on how Switch does, and how much of a lead Sony has over Xbox in the USA and UK when the generation ends.

Sony's dominance of the console market is a lot less universal than it was with PS2. Xbox is still right on PS4's heels in the USA and UK, so they can't afford to take those markets for granted. Wii U did well enough in Japan, and Switch might prove very popular there, so I don't think they can take Japan for granted.

So the three biggest single gaming markets in the world are all fairly competitive. PS3's awful first couple of years, and alienation of a significant user base still casts a shadow over Sony. Does Sony recognise that they still need to be seen to be trying to do right by the consumer? So far it seems they do recognise this. So maybe their memory will be long enough to not repeat the mistakes of the PS3.

2 things I don't think Sony will do for a long time is: go with non-standard system hardware that is difficult to programme for; and introduce a new and very expensive bit of media technology. The former, because system hardware that is PC-like is just so damned easy and cheap to use. The latter, because we are moving to a digital distribution world, so it's unlikely any company is going to put a heavy bet on the success of another form of physical media which Sony would feel the need to either incorporate into a new system as an early adopter, or counteract to prevent a competitor from becoming the dominant player.



“The fundamental cause of the trouble is that in the modern world the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt.” - Bertrand Russell

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace."

Jimi Hendrix

 

Howard Stringer left Sony some years back. 



AsGryffynn said:
Rafie said:

PS Now isn't really successful. It's really just....there.

Didn't find any evidence about the CD player. Not that it really matters.

The paywall for MP was to secure more servers.

Why do people keep saying lack of triple A titles. They do have triple A titles. Just not every month. Same as GWG.

Charging 10 more bucks for Plus is the same for the "mp" on point 3.

You do know that Xbox has been hit quite a few times this generation already. It's not just Sony.

I don't really personally care about making my own background. Does Xbox One let you do that? I've never tried to. I just used my achievement pics as my background for Xbox One.

 

I still don't think Sony will be arrogant on a high scale. Everything that you listed isn't evidence of arrogance. That's just business decisions. Same as Microsoft.

I think his definition of arrogance might be "not trying as hard as the competitor", a sentiment which I strongly share. And yes, you are able to change your background on the Xbox One for free. Also, actual complaints regarding the PS4. 

 

  • Limitation of mod support
  • Lack of plug and play external storage
  • Lack of more efficient removable battery wireless controllers
  • Poor server framework (they've done a lot, but they're still sort of sluggish and unstable) 
  • The rise in pricing (again, they were doing all right before)
  • No UHD BD on the Pro
  • No cross region purchases (purchasing from the JP store in XBL was relatively hassle free. The JP PSN Store where it actually makes sense? It's a clusterfuck)
  • PC Support (MS dropped the ball here, this was either a very good or very bad thing, but I think it was very good and Sony still refuses to start porting their exclusives to PC) 
  • Budget and quality controls (as mentioned before, a reason many JP games don't make it to the Xbox One seems to be thanks to a policy created to weed out shovelware titles. The policy sets a minimum of 200000 physical discs as a sales quota to be fulfilled by any dev not an indie)
  • Adding to the one above, a lot of PS games bank on cheap sex sells tactics rather than seeming compelling (around the vast majority of whatever it might be Idea Factory creates)
  • Refusal to allow localizations of certain games (DOAX3 and Grisaia were both to be localized, and Sony blocked them. In the former, at least Kecmo decided before they were told they'd veto the localization anyways while Grisaia was blocked on the spot) 
I think they aren't terribly bad, but they definitely are the kind of dev I don't like. They act in a way that benefits devs more than gamers. MS initially tried to cosy up to AAA devs but gamers reacted badly, but since Sony did this covertly they were able to run away with a free pass. 
I don't consider it fair, but then again, with generations, if you drop the ball at the start, you are sort of down... 
Even if you're not out. 

 

Some of the gripes are legitimate complaints. Then there are some that's just being either picky or it doesn't matter to the mass consumer for the most part. Just like the UHD blu ray drive. Not everyone cares about that. Some people barely ever use their blu ray drive even now. They're streaming it off of Netflix, Hulu, etc. I know you can the color of your background on Xbox One and even use achievement art (like I do) and make it your background. That's definitely a legitimate complaint. Sony should do that as well. Now as for the bullet points

* Sony is doing mod support. It may be limited now, but it's gradually getting there. So I don't think it's a big gripe.

* What they failed to do on external HD, the excelled in internal HD. Something Xbox doesn't do, so it cancels out. Still a legitimated complaint. Not arrogance on Sony's part.

* I certainly agree here. Again, not arrogance though.

* I don't think that the online is that big of a difference anymore. Not like how it was on PS3 vs 360 where the 360 was top dog on online play. It's pretty much on the level with XBL. Even if XBL still has the superior online infrastructure. Once more....that's not cocky or arrogant. That's just something that the competitor does better. No offense to Nintendo, but their online is more sluggish and unstable.

* Everybody inflates pricing at one point with certain features. Not going to count that against them. Everyone does it for the most part.

* Legitimate complaint about the hassle of cross region store. Although Xbox doesn't have a lot of Japanese games to really warrant a purchase in their market. PlayStation has hundreds. Still, I care about buying from a JPN PSN Store.

* Here's where I disagree. Sony is their own entity. They may not want to share everything with the PC regarding their exclusives. I certainly don't blame them. It's why some people say that Xbox is losing it's identity. Damn near every game Xbox is getting will be on PC. Sony doesn't seem to want that and I can't blame them. PC would really be the place to play any game you want, thus making the consoles pretty much obsolete.

* No comment

* Variety is variety. PlayStation doesn't use every single game as a "sex tactic" to entice consumers. That's just not right. I will admit that there are more suggestive games on PlayStation than on Xbox and Nintendo. I just don't think they bank on it. To a certain degree I suppose.

* No comment about this last point and it's certainly legitimate. Even I STILL wonder about that.

 

I'm confused about the whole Sony "convertly" thing. Do we have proof about this? I'm really curious. I'm not being passive agressive. I've heard claims since the announcements of both the Xbox One and PS4 and no one I've seen yet has definitively had proof about this.

PS3 dropped the ball big time last gen and it took years for them to recover. They ended up going toe to toe with the 360 towards the end. Whose to say that it can't happen for the Xbox One. I personally don't believe that the Xbox One is a bad console at all. No where near it in fact. I love my Xbox One. The one gripe I have about it is the fact that they share damn near every game with the PC now. For me personally! I know for PC gamers that it's a godsend and it prevents them from buying consoles. I'm glad for now that Sony doesn't do that. If Sony and Nintendo (Sony more than likely than Nintendo will) ever did that, then consoles will be dead. Period. Hopefully I didn't stray too much off topic.



PSN ID- RayCrocheron82

XBL Gamertag- RAFIE82

NNID- RAFIE82/ Friend Code: SW-6006-2580-8237

YouTube- Rafie Crocheron

Rafie said:
AsGryffynn said:

I think his definition of arrogance might be "not trying as hard as the competitor", a sentiment which I strongly share. And yes, you are able to change your background on the Xbox One for free. Also, actual complaints regarding the PS4. 

 

  • Limitation of mod support
  • Lack of plug and play external storage
  • Lack of more efficient removable battery wireless controllers
  • Poor server framework (they've done a lot, but they're still sort of sluggish and unstable) 
  • The rise in pricing (again, they were doing all right before)
  • No UHD BD on the Pro
  • No cross region purchases (purchasing from the JP store in XBL was relatively hassle free. The JP PSN Store where it actually makes sense? It's a clusterfuck)
  • PC Support (MS dropped the ball here, this was either a very good or very bad thing, but I think it was very good and Sony still refuses to start porting their exclusives to PC) 
  • Budget and quality controls (as mentioned before, a reason many JP games don't make it to the Xbox One seems to be thanks to a policy created to weed out shovelware titles. The policy sets a minimum of 200000 physical discs as a sales quota to be fulfilled by any dev not an indie)
  • Adding to the one above, a lot of PS games bank on cheap sex sells tactics rather than seeming compelling (around the vast majority of whatever it might be Idea Factory creates)
  • Refusal to allow localizations of certain games (DOAX3 and Grisaia were both to be localized, and Sony blocked them. In the former, at least Kecmo decided before they were told they'd veto the localization anyways while Grisaia was blocked on the spot) 
I think they aren't terribly bad, but they definitely are the kind of dev I don't like. They act in a way that benefits devs more than gamers. MS initially tried to cosy up to AAA devs but gamers reacted badly, but since Sony did this covertly they were able to run away with a free pass. 
I don't consider it fair, but then again, with generations, if you drop the ball at the start, you are sort of down... 
Even if you're not out. 

 

Some of the gripes are legitimate complaints. Then there are some that's just being either picky or it doesn't matter to the mass consumer for the most part. Just like the UHD blu ray drive. Not everyone cares about that. Some people barely ever use their blu ray drive even now. They're streaming it off of Netflix, Hulu, etc. I know you can the color of your background on Xbox One and even use achievement art (like I do) and make it your background. That's definitely a legitimate complaint. Sony should do that as well. Now as for the bullet points

* Sony is doing mod support. It may be limited now, but it's gradually getting there. So I don't think it's a big gripe.

* What they failed to do on external HD, the excelled in internal HD. Something Xbox doesn't do, so it cancels out. Still a legitimated complaint. Not arrogance on Sony's part.

* I certainly agree here. Again, not arrogance though.

* I don't think that the online is that big of a difference anymore. Not like how it was on PS3 vs 360 where the 360 was top dog on online play. It's pretty much on the level with XBL. Even if XBL still has the superior online infrastructure. Once more....that's not cocky or arrogant. That's just something that the competitor does better. No offense to Nintendo, but their online is more sluggish and unstable.

* Everybody inflates pricing at one point with certain features. Not going to count that against them. Everyone does it for the most part.

* Legitimate complaint about the hassle of cross region store. Although Xbox doesn't have a lot of Japanese games to really warrant a purchase in their market. PlayStation has hundreds. Still, I care about buying from a JPN PSN Store.

* Here's where I disagree. Sony is their own entity. They may not want to share everything with the PC regarding their exclusives. I certainly don't blame them. It's why some people say that Xbox is losing it's identity. Damn near every game Xbox is getting will be on PC. Sony doesn't seem to want that and I can't blame them. PC would really be the place to play any game you want, thus making the consoles pretty much obsolete.

* No comment

* Variety is variety. PlayStation doesn't use every single game as a "sex tactic" to entice consumers. That's just not right. I will admit that there are more suggestive games on PlayStation than on Xbox and Nintendo. I just don't think they bank on it. To a certain degree I suppose.

* No comment about this last point and it's certainly legitimate. Even I STILL wonder about that.

 

I'm confused about the whole Sony "convertly" thing. Do we have proof about this? I'm really curious. I'm not being passive agressive. I've heard claims since the announcements of both the Xbox One and PS4 and no one I've seen yet has definitively had proof about this.

PS3 dropped the ball big time last gen and it took years for them to recover. They ended up going toe to toe with the 360 towards the end. Whose to say that it can't happen for the Xbox One. I personally don't believe that the Xbox One is a bad console at all. No where near it in fact. I love my Xbox One. The one gripe I have about it is the fact that they share damn near every game with the PC now. For me personally! I know for PC gamers that it's a godsend and it prevents them from buying consoles. I'm glad for now that Sony doesn't do that. If Sony and Nintendo (Sony more than likely than Nintendo will) ever did that, then consoles will be dead. Period. Hopefully I didn't stray too much off topic.

Hence why I illustrate them as my personal choices, but I think some are outright lack of oversight or thinking they don't have to when yes, if your competitor apparently seems to be trying, you do have to or you will be thought of as not trying as hard as they are. Intent represents a lot of what the company will do to obtain new customers. If a guy offered me 100,000 dollars and another offered me 10,000 but the former only cut his arm and the other was willing to saw off all his limbs for the sake of impressing me, I'd take the later in a heartbeat only to keep him or her from harming himself in a horrible way. 

  • Until they allow external content, I am afraid they will not have my support. Part of the mod's advantage was free content generation, ambience manipulation... In other words, creating a completely different game striking your fancy. This might only be achievable with external content. 
  • The problem seems to be convenience. It's not as easy to buy and install an external HD as it might be a SSD or HDD. 
  • No support for thumb drives either. But the most annoying part was there's no reason not to. The hardware has the ability to handle it (all Linux/FreeBSD systems do). 
  • In other words, they aren't allowing it because they don't want to. When a decision has negligible costs, when it isn't done anyways, it hints at an arrogant approach to options for the user. 
  • Again, arrogance. Why? Because the cost will be non existent! They still say "lol no". Seriously, if people want X, you give it to them, especially when it will help your audience. 
  • The problem with this was that they still leave a lot to be desired compared to MS and charge the same bloody price. You improve the service first and then charge the same price or charge slightly less. Now they're matching the price I'd expect the same performance, but if they are to be trusted, almost everyone says the service works the same. 
  • And I still wonder why Sony will not change things around, especially when many of these games are more expensive on those stores anyways. 
  • Fair enough. I think PC support represents a positive, but might be a fad or something they aren't able to do with the same efficiency as their competitors. 
  • As a whole, you'd be surprised at the amount of adverts for the PSV these games obtained. 
  • Seriously, it was annoying. I really hope they decide hostility against these games might be the best way not to look hypocritical (we are promoting Monster Monpiece and then blocking DOAX3... Seriously?) 
The thing with Sony was their marketing didn't have the whole DRM bollocks tacked to it and they didn't tell the whole world they were doing this sort of stuff... But they had gradually started to tighten control of their environment, from the region locking, to the price hikes, to promoting games years before they appear... To having a laundry list of games that sell well below expectations and supporting them anyways because devs believe they are inherently better... To announcing mod support and then announcing half baked variants of these features. 
In other words, the only difference was MS was upfront on what they were planning to do. Sony was planning to do this only when they had a clear lead and thus were unable to be refused. Hell, MS originally limited game sharing on their plans, then when they rolled it back in favor of the UWP approach, they started floating the idea of digital game sales. 
That was the moment (and owning a PSVita of course) that made me realize they really weren't the heroes everyone made them out to be and that they had effectively not learned from the PS3 fiasco, while MS did learn from the Wii (they were the ones who started the Kinect craze, it wasn't known as the PSEye craze for a reason). 


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Several Xbox One and PS4 games are already pushing 50 GB. Developers now have to add in a second set of textures for the PS4 Pro, and possibly other assets specific to PSVR, but have no extra space on the disc.

I understand that developers are being discouraged from making games specific for the PS4 Pro at this time. However, when the PS5 gets released we'll likely have that restriction dropped at a developer's discretion. If the PS4 Pro'd had its drive upgraded from BD to UHD, that would have brought BD-XL along for the ride (which would have doubled capacity to up to 100 GB per disc). At that time a developer would be able to make a game for the PS4 and PS4 Pro within 50 GB, or a game for the PS4 Pro and PS5 within 100 GB. But now they'll be stuck at 50 GB for any PS5 game disc that retains compatibility with the PS4 Pro. Not very forward thinking, if you ask me. Eschewing UHD is about so much more than movie discs, despite what some commenters say.



AsGryffynn said:

Hence why I illustrate them as my personal choices, but I think some are outright lack of oversight or thinking they don't have to when yes, if your competitor apparently seems to be trying, you do have to or you will be thought of as not trying as hard as they are. Intent represents a lot of what the company will do to obtain new customers. If a guy offered me 100,000 dollars and another offered me 10,000 but the former only cut his arm and the other was willing to saw off all his limbs for the sake of impressing me, I'd take the later in a heartbeat only to keep him or her from harming himself in a horrible way. 

 

  • Until they allow external content, I am afraid they will not have my support. Part of the mod's advantage was free content generation, ambience manipulation... In other words, creating a completely different game striking your fancy. This might only be achievable with external content. 
  • The problem seems to be convenience. It's not as easy to buy and install an external HD as it might be a SSD or HDD. 
  • No support for thumb drives either. But the most annoying part was there's no reason not to. The hardware has the ability to handle it (all Linux/FreeBSD systems do). 
  • In other words, they aren't allowing it because they don't want to. When a decision has negligible costs, when it isn't done anyways, it hints at an arrogant approach to options for the user. 
  • Again, arrogance. Why? Because the cost will be non existent! They still say "lol no". Seriously, if people want X, you give it to them, especially when it will help your audience. 
  • The problem with this was that they still leave a lot to be desired compared to MS and charge the same bloody price. You improve the service first and then charge the same price or charge slightly less. Now they're matching the price I'd expect the same performance, but if they are to be trusted, almost everyone says the service works the same. 
  • And I still wonder why Sony will not change things around, especially when many of these games are more expensive on those stores anyways. 
  • Fair enough. I think PC support represents a positive, but might be a fad or something they aren't able to do with the same efficiency as their competitors. 
  • As a whole, you'd be surprised at the amount of adverts for the PSV these games obtained. 
  • Seriously, it was annoying. I really hope they decide hostility against these games might be the best way not to look hypocritical (we are promoting Monster Monpiece and then blocking DOAX3... Seriously?) 
The thing with Sony was their marketing didn't have the whole DRM bollocks tacked to it and they didn't tell the whole world they were doing this sort of stuff... But they had gradually started to tighten control of their environment, from the region locking, to the price hikes, to promoting games years before they appear... To having a laundry list of games that sell well below expectations and supporting them anyways because devs believe they are inherently better... To announcing mod support and then announcing half baked variants of these features. 
In other words, the only difference was MS was upfront on what they were planning to do. Sony was planning to do this only when they had a clear lead and thus were unable to be refused. Hell, MS originally limited game sharing on their plans, then when they rolled it back in favor of the UWP approach, they started floating the idea of digital game sales. 
That was the moment (and owning a PSVita of course) that made me realize they really weren't the heroes everyone made them out to be and that they had effectively not learned from the PS3 fiasco, while MS did learn from the Wii (they were the ones who started the Kinect craze, it wasn't known as the PSEye craze for a reason). 

 

Still what works with one company make not work with another. Just because it's seemingly beneficial to have some of their exclusives on the PC, doesn't mean that it's actually beneficial for them. In this case with the trying hard bit, it doesn't really work here. There's an obvious reason why Sony chose to keep some of their own exclusives from the PC. Which is really smart. Oh and no offense my friend, but that was a weak analogy. Although I do get the sentiment you're relaying.

 

* Just to let you know, the mod support on the Xbox is still abit limited itself. It's not like the PC where you get full range. Sony has directives in place for their console. Hopefully, we'll see something soon with that.

*With the internal HDD it's unbelievably easy. Sure the external is much more easier as you only have to plug it in. However, I'm glad that I can change it internally without the drive being out in the open. Then again, it would be nice to have an external HD option. Like you said....convenience.

*Why do you see it as arrogance for Sony because they didn't add a UHD blu ray drive? People weren't asking for it. I admit it was very strange not to add it, but Sony explained their reason for not having it. I guess the reasons aren't enough as it still doesn't negate the fact that they could have had it. I see that more as a misstep. They added blu ray to the PS3 before it was even the norm. People say that as arrogant because it hiked the price up. Now that they omitted and UHD drive, they're arrogant for not having one.

 

The article you provided still has not given any definitive proof that this was Sony's original idea to have DRM. Then the author goes on to say that it was said by Yoshida himself, but doesn't cite the Famitsu article he supposedly said it on. So it's still a baseless opinion piece. Now I will say that Sony has their blunders and aren't innocent of some....questionable practices. Still..to make Sony out to be the bad guy this gen isn't fair at all. They all do it. MS was seemingly known for their, again, questionable practices. Just because they turned everything around doesn't give them an all out pass for being the good guy here. They should get praise of their appeasal to the public though. Phil is the best thing that ever happened to Xbox. If Mattrick was still heading Xbox, I'm not sure if we would be seeing the Xbox we see today.

Oh and there's a gift and curse to announcing games mad early. While some gamers don't like that because they know that a much anticipated game is confirmed, they would still have to wait a long time. Knowing seems to hurt more when you have to wait. Then there's certain gamers like me who are excited to know that a game that I've been waiting for or may be interested is coming, regardless if I have to wait for it or not. Sony shouldn't be penalized for doing that. At least the games are coming. MS has done that too. Crackdown 3 is a good example of this. I think you should reevaluate your stance on Sony when you compare them to MS, objectively. You will see that those 2 in the video game market are pretty much the same with how they do business. It's really unfair to call out one and not the other. That's why you have the segregation in the gaming community between the big 3. It's one reason why I own all consoles. I don't play the consoles, I just play the games. I never want to miss anything. Each one of them offer something the other doesn't.



PSN ID- RayCrocheron82

XBL Gamertag- RAFIE82

NNID- RAFIE82/ Friend Code: SW-6006-2580-8237

YouTube- Rafie Crocheron

badgenome said:

I don't really think so. This isn't a PS1/PS2 level blow out. But then again, I apparently couldn't be more wrong. So probably!

So you heard about the Vita 2 announcement also.



Time will tell. But never forget FIVE HUNDRED NINETY NINE DOLLAHZ WITH NINETY NINE CENTS PLUS TAX, never forget.

Oh and SONY, fix your online store. It sucks not being able to buy anything for random reasons.



Rafie said:

 Still what works with one company make not work with another. Just because it's seemingly beneficial to have some of their exclusives on the PC, doesn't mean that it's actually beneficial for them. In this case with the trying hard bit, it doesn't really work here. There's an obvious reason why Sony chose to keep some of their own exclusives from the PC. Which is really smart. Oh and no offense my friend, but that was a weak analogy. Although I do get the sentiment you're relaying.

 

* Just to let you know, the mod support on the Xbox is still abit limited itself. It's not like the PC where you get full range. Sony has directives in place for their console. Hopefully, we'll see something soon with that.

*With the internal HDD it's unbelievably easy. Sure the external is much more easier as you only have to plug it in. However, I'm glad that I can change it internally without the drive being out in the open. Then again, it would be nice to have an external HD option. Like you said....convenience.

*Why do you see it as arrogance for Sony because they didn't add a UHD blu ray drive? People weren't asking for it. I admit it was very strange not to add it, but Sony explained their reason for not having it. I guess the reasons aren't enough as it still doesn't negate the fact that they could have had it. I see that more as a misstep. They added blu ray to the PS3 before it was even the norm. People say that as arrogant because it hiked the price up. Now that they omitted and UHD drive, they're arrogant for not having one.

[...]

[Edit to correct "are" to "aren't" in the first sentence.]  I tend to agree with you that these aren't examples of Sony's old arrogance returning.  At least not yet.  I have argued, and continue to believe, that eschewing UHD in the Pro (well, more to the point, BD-XL) is a bad strategy as it will hamper for years longer how high the capacity of game discs can go, a problem when supporting multiple levels of system (PS4, PS4 Pro, PS5), additional assets for VR, etc.  Unless they believe that games will be predominantly digitally distributed in the near future (rather than the 10-30% digitally distributed that they are today), it's a bad strategy not to establish BD-XL for the PS4 Pro.  But like you say, it's a misstep rather than arrogance.

I agree that replacing the internal drive as easily as on the PS4 is good, and I think allowing installs to external drives as on the Xbox One is good.  The perfect console would have both.  :)  Which a user thinks is the more important option depends on their priorities.  One advantage of game installs to an external drive is that both drives can be accessed concurrently to avoid drive thrashing (perhaps an app or OS components being accessed off the internal drive, while game assets are accessed simultaneously off the external drive).  There are potential advantages to external drive support such as the ability to take your external drive to a friends house, sign in with your gamertag, and you're good to go.  I have an Xbox One at home and an Xbox One S in the staff room at work, so that's a potential advantage to me.  As games get bigger, that may be something I do more of in the future.

I think Sony keeping their exclusives off the PC is a mistake.  You suggest Sony keeps "some" of their exclusives off the PC.  Did they release any non-MMO exclusives on the PC?  None come to mind.  I don't think Sony failing to release them on PC is arrogance as traditionally few first-party console titles got PC releases.  I see that as Microsoft taking a consumer-positive stance, as opposed to Sony taking an anti-consumer stance.

Mod support is limited on the Xbox One, but far less limited than it is on the PS4 according to mod creators on Reddit.  That's the strongest argument in this whole thread in favour of Sony's arrogant ways returning, IMO.